Easee seems to have a problem

Easee seems to have a problem

Author
Discussion

5s Alive

Original Poster:

1,771 posts

33 months

No ideas for a name

2,160 posts

85 months

Tuesday 14th February 2023
quotequote all
Surprised no one else has commented yet...

I had taken a look (on paper) at the Easee 'charger' since it appeared in TV ads, and one of our distributors was offering it.
I had actually ruled it out as it has a dependancy on easee servers. Apparently local control was removed.
Other than that it appeared to be decently engineered.

From the following https://support.easee.com/hc/en-gb/articles/907683...

we see

"Installation

The Charging Robot has built in RCD and an overload protection integrated. The RCD follows the EN 61008-1 and IEC 62955 standards. This will switch off the current to the electrical vehicle if a residual current of 4-6 mA DC and/or 20-30 mA AC occurs. The RCD is reset by unplugging the charging cable and plugging it back in again. The integrated RCD is automatically tested and calibrated at regular intervals by the Charging Robot. It's fine to put an RCD in front of the charger if local regulations require protection for the source cable."

The press report says Elsälerhetverket seem pretty clear that this is NOT included.

Makes one wonder if it is in the design, but not functioning as required.

Of course, an installer would find this out when commisioning. The EVSE as installed would fail the acceptance tests (earth leakage test for one).
So, in theory, there shouldn't be an installed base with this issue in the field.

I wouldn't expect an installer to do 'design time' testing, but basics of circuit and user protection surely should be tested.

However - I suspect some installers don't do this, which opens up a few questions for the industry.


ETA:

Elsalerhetverket in Swedish said:
Ongoing testing of charging boxes
NEW | Published 2023-02-06

Right now we are receiving many questions about an ongoing project where we looked more closely at charging boxes for electric cars. When all decisions in the project have been made, a final report will be published. The final report is estimated to be ready in a few weeks.

A case is still ongoing where the party has been given the opportunity to comment on the ongoing investigation. When the response period expires next week, the investigation will be completed. The Swedish Electrical Safety Authority will then make a decision on the matter.
Edited by No ideas for a name on Tuesday 14th February 11:19

5s Alive

Original Poster:

1,771 posts

33 months

Tuesday 14th February 2023
quotequote all
I'm very surprised given their reputation and country of origin. Had I heard of Easee before installing our SyncEv I'd probably have gone with it based on the reviews. Equally surprising that none of the EVSE installers/reviewers discovered this before now. Leads me to wonder about other EVSE.

TheRainMaker

6,301 posts

241 months

Tuesday 14th February 2023
quotequote all
Not really related to the article, but the one we have at the office malfunctioned a few weeks ago and nearly knocked me on my arse.

I normally press the button on the car first to stop the charge and then unplug, but for once I unplugged the cable from the charger first thinking it would have finished, this is normally locked in when charging, but the lock hadn't worked, it was still charging when I pulled the cable out.

A massive flash with extra sparks and a lot of swearing followed.

I now always press the button on the car and wait for it to tell me it can be unplugged, wait for an audible click from the charger, then unplug the cable.

C.A.R.

3,967 posts

187 months

Tuesday 14th February 2023
quotequote all
TheRainMaker said:
Not really related to the article, but the one we have at the office malfunctioned a few weeks ago and nearly knocked me on my arse.

I normally press the button on the car first to stop the charge and then unplug, but for once I unplugged the cable from the charger first thinking it would have finished, this is normally locked in when charging, but the lock hadn't worked, it was still charging when I pulled the cable out.

A massive flash with extra sparks and a lot of swearing followed.

I now always press the button on the car and wait for it to tell me it can be unplugged, wait for an audible click from the charger, then unplug the cable.
Well that's concerning to say the least.

Our workplace has these fitted and hooked up to 3-phase (22kW). Is the same model affected by the safety concerns I wonder? - Was the one which zapped you on 3-phase or single?

Oh dear.

Mutts

284 posts

157 months

Tuesday 14th February 2023
quotequote all
Cant say i've noticed any problems with mine. Been in for just under a year. Its wired to an RCD then into the consumer unit on a spare link. It was the one recommended by the supplier (very little choice at the time due to the Govt. grant making installs £400 or there abouts.
I'll keep an eye on it now.

TheRainMaker

6,301 posts

241 months

Tuesday 14th February 2023
quotequote all
C.A.R. said:
TheRainMaker said:
Not really related to the article, but the one we have at the office malfunctioned a few weeks ago and nearly knocked me on my arse.

I normally press the button on the car first to stop the charge and then unplug, but for once I unplugged the cable from the charger first thinking it would have finished, this is normally locked in when charging, but the lock hadn't worked, it was still charging when I pulled the cable out.

A massive flash with extra sparks and a lot of swearing followed.

I now always press the button on the car and wait for it to tell me it can be unplugged, wait for an audible click from the charger, then unplug the cable.
Well that's concerning to say the least.

Our workplace has these fitted and hooked up to 3-phase (22kW). Is the same model affected by the safety concerns I wonder? - Was the one which zapped you on 3-phase or single?

Oh dear.
3-phase 22kW unit.

Up to that point, it had been totally reliable, but then again I'm not sure if the lock was working or not as I don't think I had ever removed the cable charger first.

No ideas for a name

2,160 posts

85 months

Tuesday 14th February 2023
quotequote all
TheRainMaker said:
Not really related to the article, but the one we have at the office malfunctioned a few weeks ago and nearly knocked me on my arse.

I normally press the button on the car first to stop the charge and then unplug, but for once I unplugged the cable from the charger first thinking it would have finished, this is normally locked in when charging, but the lock hadn't worked, it was still charging when I pulled the cable out.

A massive flash with extra sparks and a lot of swearing followed.

I now always press the button on the car and wait for it to tell me it can be unplugged, wait for an audible click from the charger, then unplug the cable.
Interesting failure.

Disconnecting the cable on-load shouldn't really do that.
Sounds like a dodgey socket/lead. Are the pins dirty/burnt?
Did you pull the cable really slowly?




TheRainMaker

6,301 posts

241 months

Tuesday 14th February 2023
quotequote all
No ideas for a name said:
Interesting failure.

Disconnecting the cable on-load shouldn't really do that.
Sounds like a dodgey socket/lead. Are the pins dirty/burnt?
Did you pull the cable really slowly?
I will need to check the cable tonight as I don't have the car here, but the charger looks fine apart from the PP socket which is black inside, a bit odd as the flash came from the other side from memory, and does that even carry any sort or power?



Pulled the cable out normally I don't remember doing anything unusual.

TheRainMaker

6,301 posts

241 months

Tuesday 14th February 2023
quotequote all
Actually looking closer at L3 there looks like arcing marks and a burn mark just below it.


No ideas for a name

2,160 posts

85 months

Tuesday 14th February 2023
quotequote all
Interested in the technical aspects of the flash on disconnect.

Assuming that was from the plug rather than deeper in the unit, a quick check on the specs for the connectors says

"As the connector is removed, the shorter control pilot pin disconnects first, causing the EVSE to drop power to the plug. This also ensures that the power pins will not be disconnected under load, causing arcs and shortening their life. The ground pin is longer than the other pins, so it breaks last."

So, even if the EVSE had unlatched the plug, it should have noticed the attempt to disconnect on load and opened the contactor.
Of course, if you pull the plug with high speed, then it might disconnect without noticing, and the contactor takes time to drop out too.

No ideas for a name

2,160 posts

85 months

Wednesday 15th February 2023
quotequote all
Elsälerhetverket has updated their statement... presumably it is Easee that have replied to them.

Elsalerhetverket said:
Ongoing testing of charging boxes
NEW | Published 2023-02-15

Right now we are receiving many questions about an ongoing project where we looked more closely at charging boxes for electric cars. When all decisions in the project have been made, a final report will be published. The final report is estimated to be ready in a few weeks.

The party in the case has submitted a statement and the work to evaluate the response is ongoing.

5s Alive

Original Poster:

1,771 posts

33 months

Wednesday 15th February 2023
quotequote all
Hopefully it's electronics/software not functioning as intended and not that the hardware doesn't exist.

It failed the overvoltage test too but having contacted SyncEv over ours tripping out above the DNO mandated 254v I was informed that they could handle much higher voltages.

Could also be very poorly described specifications/functions... scratchchin

Whatever is going on I'm looking forward to finding out.

TheRainMaker

6,301 posts

241 months

Thursday 16th February 2023
quotequote all
No ideas for a name said:
Interested in the technical aspects of the flash on disconnect.

Assuming that was from the plug rather than deeper in the unit, a quick check on the specs for the connectors says

"As the connector is removed, the shorter control pilot pin disconnects first, causing the EVSE to drop power to the plug. This also ensures that the power pins will not be disconnected under load, causing arcs and shortening their life. The ground pin is longer than the other pins, so it breaks last."

So, even if the EVSE had unlatched the plug, it should have noticed the attempt to disconnect on load and opened the contactor.
Of course, if you pull the plug with high speed, then it might disconnect without noticing, and the contactor takes time to drop out too.
Just a quick follow-up on this.

It looks like the cable lock doesn't always engage, when I manually lock the cable in it doesn't lock, if I pull the cable out (when locked) and put it pack in it then clicks and then is secure.

The cable looks fine, so must be a problem with the charger, but will try another cable next week just to make sure.

My guess would have been I pulled the cable out too quickly when the car was charging and the safety lock wasn't engaged.

On the Website, it says "when charging, the cable will be locked to the charger" scratchchin



No ideas for a name

2,160 posts

85 months

Friday 17th February 2023
quotequote all
Easee said:
Questions and answers about the case with the Swedish Electrical Safety Authority

Published by Vegard Terøy

15.02.2023 – News

We know that many people have questions about the ongoing case with the Swedish Electrical Safety Authority. Here we answer the most common questions.
Is it safe to charge with Easee?

Yes. All our customers can recharge completely safely. Safety and innovation have been the main focus at Easee since we started and are something we work on every day. Our customers have shown us trust since the very beginning and we will continue to earn this trust.

Easee has over half a million chargers installed in Europe and has completed 57.3 million charging sessions. These numbers are clear proof that Easee's technology and functionality provide safe, secure and efficient charging.
Why is the Swedish Medical Association investigating Easee?

The Swedish Electrical Safety Authority is the supervisory authority in Sweden that is responsible for the safety of electrical products on the Swedish market. As part of their role and mission, they have a project where they investigate six different electric car chargers. We have welcomed this dialogue, and are positive about the Swedish Electrical Safety Authority's review. Safety, transparency and trust are important to us at Easee and we are positive that the Swedish Electrical Safety Authority focuses on safety.
What is the Swedish Electrical Safety Authority asking about?

The Swedish Electrical Safety Authority wants documentation on how their requirements are maintained by the various manufacturers of electric car chargers. The questions put to Easee are mainly related to surge testing and earth fault protection. In its response, dated February 13, Easee has gone into depth about how the security requirements are met.
What is the status now and what happens next?

Easee has now answered the Swedish Electrical Safety Authority's question about documentation, and explained how requirements are met in our products.

The Swedish Electrical Safety Authority has announced that it will take a couple of weeks to review our response. It is important for us to point out that Easee's charger meets all safety requirements.

We are now awaiting the Swedish Electrical Safety Authority's response to our answer. Easee wants to assure all our customers that they can charge completely safely and securely every day. Safety has always been our main focus.
Will there be a sales ban in Sweden?

We are sure that the documentation we sent to the Swedish Electrical Safety Authority shows that our products meet the requirements that the authorities set for manufacturers of electric car chargers.
What is Easee's response to the Swedish Electrical Safety Authority's concerns about earth fault protection?

Easee has built-in earth fault protection. This protects against both AC and DC faults. The protection is automatically tested between each charge and at least once a day.
What has caused the EU Declaration of Conformity (DoC) to change over time?

The EU declaration is a self-declaration in which the manufacturer declares that the product meets applicable safety requirements. We have made continuous changes to the EU declaration to make it clear that we meet all applicable security requirements - as our software is continuously updated.
Could Easee's documentation lead to dangerous installations?

No. Our installation documents are clear and in accordance with current legislation. Easee will nevertheless revise the manual with additional specifications on the earth fault protection to clarify the features and create confidence about the solution.
Do the Easee chargers have DC protection and how does this work?

Yes, Easee has both AC and DC ground fault protection. An accurate and fast digital sensor detects any leakage current and signals this so that the current is interrupted. The sensor has been developed and tested by a specialized third-party supplier. Leakage current above 6mA DC or 30mA AC will trip the protection.
Do Easee chargers pass surge tests and can the product cause damage to vehicles over time?

The Easee charger passes all required surge tests. The product will not under any circumstances cause damage to any vehicles.

Easee Home/Charge is designed for overvoltage category III, corresponding to the requirement for fuses, earth fault protection and other fixed equipment.
How is the dialogue with the Norwegian authorities, and what are the thoughts about them wanting to implement a similar process as in Sweden?

We are very positive about the focus on security, and welcome the dialogue with the Norwegian authorities. It is in many ways a new technology being introduced into society – in the transition to electric car fleets and a greater focus on smart power consumption in the home. It is together that we will shape the electricity grid of the future and tomorrow's power management - and we look forward to being an active part of this. We cannot do this without cooperating with the authorities in the markets we are in.

5s Alive

Original Poster:

1,771 posts

33 months

Friday 17th February 2023
quotequote all
Elsälerhetverket says -

The product is not equipped with a residual current circuit breaker (30mA AC/6mA DC) as stated in the instructions for use,” the Swedish authority wrote.

Easee says -

Easee has both AC and DC ground fault protection. An accurate and fast digital sensor detects any leakage current and signals this so that the current is interrupted. The sensor has been developed and tested by a specialized third-party supplier. Leakage current above 6mA DC or 30mA AC will trip the protection.

Contradictory statements unless the Easee sensor is in a format that Elsälerhetverket simply hasn't recognised.

I assume the other EVSE passed the same tests the Easee was subjected to so still not clear what's going on.

Frimley111R

15,531 posts

233 months

Monday 20th February 2023
quotequote all
No ideas for a name said:
Surprised no one else has commented yet...

I had taken a look (on paper) at the Easee 'charger' since it appeared in TV ads, and one of our distributors was offering it.
I had actually ruled it out as it has a dependency on Easee servers. Apparently local control was removed.
Other than that it appeared to be decently engineered.
Just a small point here but Easee chargers do not rely on their own servers/software exclusively, they can run on other charger software now too. In fact most chargers can do this.

No ideas for a name

2,160 posts

85 months

Monday 20th February 2023
quotequote all
Frimley111R said:
No ideas for a name said:
Surprised no one else has commented yet...

I had taken a look (on paper) at the Easee 'charger' since it appeared in TV ads, and one of our distributors was offering it.
I had actually ruled it out as it has a dependency on Easee servers. Apparently local control was removed.
Other than that it appeared to be decently engineered.
Just a small point here but Easee chargers do not rely on their own servers/software exclusively, they can run on other charger software now too. In fact most chargers can do this.
I am interested to learn more on this... not just wrt the Easee but any others.

It would appear that some EVSE do in fact have (software) interfaces which allow control via external means such as OCPP (Open Charge Point Protocol). However, it isn't really that clear that there is no dependancy on external servers run generally by the EVSE manufacturer.
As I understand it, the EVSE may talk to the manufacturer's servers, the gateway for OCPP being provided at that point.
So, if there were no manufacturer's server being accessible, then the OCPP access would not be available.

Easee do specifically say they removed the local control - though the statements are a little ambiguous. https://support.easee.com/hc/en-gb/articles/124007...
(EVSE with no 'global access' still seem to fulfil the UK requirements)

I am guessing this is a terminology issue, but it absolutly isn't possible for a (closed source) commercial EVSE to run alternative embedded software. There are of course Open Source devices which with sufficient ability, you could re-write or add features to the embedded software (https://www.openevse.com/ for example).

Third party apps, or HomeAssistant integration would in theory be possible if a local control protocol is published... it doesn't even need to be standards based like OCPP. The key is really, can the EVSE be controlled if no network connection is avaliable, be that GSM or ethernet/WiFi with a route out to the world?

As I say, not looking for an argument - genuinely interested in EVSE that can do this.

Frimley111R

15,531 posts

233 months

Monday 20th February 2023
quotequote all
Not sure about the exact technical details but companies like MONTA and Fuuse can both be added to the majority of chargers in place of the manufacturer's software. As they are dedicated software companies many charger manufacturers are happy to allow/do this. Quite honestly, most don't want the headache of software and prefer to focus on chargers and the electrical side of their operation.

I can see this splitting of the sector becoming a standard thing in the future. A little like putting Windows software on a range of laptops from differing manufacturers.

No ideas for a name

2,160 posts

85 months

Wednesday 22nd February 2023
quotequote all
Frimley111R said:
Not sure about the exact technical details but companies like MONTA and Fuuse can both be added to the majority of chargers in place of the manufacturer's software. As they are dedicated software companies many charger manufacturers are happy to allow/do this. Quite honestly, most don't want the headache of software and prefer to focus on chargers and the electrical side of their operation.

I can see this splitting of the sector becoming a standard thing in the future. A little like putting Windows software on a range of laptops from differing manufacturers.
Thanks for the info... it gave me some leads to follow up on and increase my understanding.

I realise this thread is along technical lines - and probably most of the EV forum users won't be interested in the technicalities... but it is important.

MONTA etc. does not replace the software in the EVSE, but does replace for example the EVSE manufacturer's application.

With your info about MONTA etc., I did a bit of digging and also contacted Easee.
To Easee's credit, I got a detailed and technical reply next day. This is great service - I did wonder if I would get ignored or put in the too difficult pile!

Easee said:
Thanks for getting in touch. To answer your questions in turn;

Yes we will be rolling out local bluetooth access to all products going forward instead of the previous method of local wifi connection.
Yes all comms directly to the charger come via the Easee Cloud back office, if a 3rd party CPO is integrated then their back office platform communicates with the Easee cloud which then relays instructions to the charger.
If the Easee cloud is not available then the 3rd party would also not be able to communicate with the charger. However instances of this are rare and, for the sake of transparency, we detail the cloud status on our live webpage for anyone to see the up time vs down time - https://status.easee.com
So, to clarify;
Any third party integration talks to the charger via the manufacturer's servers rather than directly.
This point is important as if for whatever reason the manufacturer ceased to exist, or indeed ceased to support a particular EVSE in the future, then the third-party software would also cease to operate.

I know I have a bit of a Bee in my bonnet about it, but I won't entertain anything that REQUIRES on going manufacturer support to function.
To be fair to Easee, I believe they are re-adding local control (via Bluetooth - which to my mind isn't too useful).

I think I will engage again with my contact and see if I can find out a little more.

I appologise if my posts are off topic in the EV forum... but I have most interest in the technical aspects and also the interoperability which come along with OCPP.
Not sure if most users are familiar with the overall concept - but it is trying to get all EVSE 'speaking the same language' and providing one billing platform for multiple vendors. It is really designed for bigger stuff than home EVSE, but if correctly implemented encompasses all types/levels - including those that haven't been thought of yet.