LM - 2018 onwards?

[DS240]

Audi gone, Porsche going at the end of 2017 and most likely Toyota leaving with no real competition to race.

How has this mess happened? We have seen technical masterpieces pushing the boundaries of tech and racing for 24hrs and witnessed some of the best races ever at Le Mans. The event had reached a massive high and now appears to be approaching a big low.

Will LMP 2 become the leading class? Will GTE Pro turn into a more extreme category and become the leading class?

Will the World Endurance Championship now die without the headline acts?

I still intend to go next year, but what will it be like?!

Edited by DS240 on Friday 28th July 08:12

[anonymous-user]

Looks like the FIA aren't too happy about it

http://www.fiawec.com/en/news/wec-statement-on-the...

I reckon Toyota will stay for one more year just so they might actually win ! Other than that it's probably down to teams like Ginetta and maybe Peugeot to keep LMP1 going until the manufacturers deem to return. BMW has a big presence this year, so maybe they might be tempted into LMP1. I much preferred the GTE racing this year anyway and have reserved tickets for next year, so we will have to see who is left !

[Ekona]

If Toyota have any sense, they'll quit too. Utterly pointless to race on your own.

[wsn03]

I'd like to see LMP1 binned, GT PRO as the lead class, LMP2 as the slightly slower class (smaller engines perhaps?).
GT PRO is full of manufacturers, the battle between them is what makes it such an exciting race in my opinion.
Hybrid stuff is great for development, but the experiment of using endurance as a test lab has been a disaster.

[GarageQueen]

one of the things I really like (liked) about Le mans racing was the relative difference in speeds out on track, loved watching the LPM1 roar past an Aston like it was sat still! real shame we might not see that anymore

[lowdrag]

No one here seems to have mentioned that according to Porsche it will cost them £20 million in the electric racing as against £200 million now. Audi were reputed to be spending nearer £500 million a year. So, with the parent company VW in the financial doodoo after the emissions ruling, with class actions looming, their share price halved, and with the whispered engine problems that will arrive following the remapping of the injection system, something had to give. Before you jump to your keyboard, yes, Porsche are going to F1 it seems, but I don't see Nissan rushing back to the WEC, nor will Honda with their presence in F1, so I think that the F2 boys will have a field day next year if Toyota don't sort out their gremlins. Maybe it was the heat that caused them and next year will be cool, but who knows? I certainly don't see a Toyota 1,2,3 in prospect.

[sahajesh]

DS240 said:

How has this mess happened? We have seen technical masterpieces pushing the boundaries of tech and racing for 24hrs and witnessed some of the best races ever at Le Mans. The event had reached a massive high and now appears to be approaching a big low

I can't tell if your very first sentence quoted is serious. Plain as day that massive cost-cutting at VAG due to dieselgate is what has caused this.

Thanks to their corporate greed and blatant board level dishonesty, their actions have and will continue to hurt global motorsport for many years to come.

They deserve everything they get in terms of fines and penalties - all they have now is tarnished laurels to rest on and the knowledge they f*cked it for everyone else.

[VladD]

As I've said on another thread, I could see Toyota going LMP1 non-hybrid next year. I think they really want to win Le Mans. Doing it with the only LMP1-H class cars would be a bit of a hollow victory.

[eastlmark]

VladD said:

As I've said on another thread, I could see Toyota going LMP1 non-hybrid next year. I think they really want to win Le Mans. Doing it with the only LMP1-H class cars would be a bit of a hollow victory.

Might be wrong but major manufacturers could only race in LMP1-H. LMP1 non being a strictly privateer class much like LMP2 was even before the chassis restrictions arrived.

[Great Dane]

eastlmark said:

Might be wrong but major manufacturers could only race in LMP1-H. LMP1 non being a strictly privateer class much like LMP2 was even before the chassis restrictions arrived.

Just in the same way as Porsche when they wanted to do GTE had missed the deadline... Phonecall from Gazoo to ACO.... "We still want to race two non hybrids in P1... is that OK?"..... Guess the answer

[RL17]

LMP2 class is a filler class with standard engines and cars all looking similar (although LMP1 with main sponsors did a very similar paintjob etc) and LMP2 not really a lead class - no real manufacturer interest and standardised so no development of any kind.

GTE Pro at mo pretty limited as only 4 manufacturers for WEC plus Corvette visitors for Le Mans only?. BMW coming would be good.

Needs to get a leading GTE Pro class and ditch LMP2 in short/medium term. WEC tour costs high and venues too spread out.

Much bigger GTE Pro field and run more like Spa 24 hours with a few more European core events (more alignment/overlap with Blancpain endurance teams).

[BigMacDaddy]

lowdrag said:

so I think that the F2 boys will have a field day next year if Toyota don't sort out their gremlins. Maybe it was the heat that caused them and next year will be cool, but who knows? I certainly don't see a Toyota 1,2,3 in prospect.

Without any other competition in the LMP1-H class, the Toyotas won't need to be pushed anywhere near as hard to keep ahead of the LMP2s surely? If they're only being driven at 7/10ths or 8/10ths the reliability issues may not be of concern any more, but as has been said it'd be a pretty hollow victory!

[Mellow Yellow]

BigMacDaddy said:

Without any other competition in the LMP1-H class, the Toyotas won't need to be pushed anywhere near as hard to keep ahead of the LMP2s surely? If they're only being driven at 7/10ths or 8/10ths the reliability issues may not be of concern any more, but as has been said it'd be a pretty hollow victory!

Didn't stop Audi from 2000-2006, they had no serious competition other than Bentley (who they owned) and, occasionally, Pescarolo (who were the beneficiaries of the ACO's favouritism towards French teams until Puegeot came along). History will remember who won, not who they beat. I think Toyota will stay on for a year or two, they can cut their budget and still grab a few headlines - Le Mans still a big deal in Japan.

[VladD]

eastlmark said:

VladD said:

As I've said on another thread, I could see Toyota going LMP1 non-hybrid next year. I think they really want to win Le Mans. Doing it with the only LMP1-H class cars would be a bit of a hollow victory.

Might be wrong but major manufacturers could only race in LMP1-H. LMP1 non being a strictly privateer class much like LMP2 was even before the chassis restrictions arrived.

Ah, didn't know that, thanks for the correction.

[lestiq]

sahajesh said:

"Plain as day that massive cost-cutting at VAG due to dieselgate is what has caused this."

Thanks to their corporate greed and blatant board level dishonesty, their actions have and will continue to hurt global motorsport for many years to come.

They deserve everything they get in terms of fines and penalties - all they have now is tarnished laurels to rest on and the knowledge they f*cked it for everyone else.

Couldn't agree more, it disgraceful the level of dishonesty they've shown.

This does pave the way for an all electric class perhaps? Would be interesting to see how long it would take for them to catch up with their combustion engined cousins, in terms of reliability/pace?

If they could make the cars so that the power unit/battery could be swapped out, instead of complete car changes like they do in formula e, that would make for an interesting race?

Judging by several manufacturer's all making announcements of their intentions to have all electric cars in 5 years time and under... This may already be in the pipeline for the future for all we know?

[Truckosaurus]

lestiq said:

...This does pave the way for an all electric class perhaps? ...

A good candidate for the 'Garage 56' space for experimental cars. Perhaps have 2 tag-team chassis as per Formula-E.

[joema]

Sounds like what Panoz are doing. Heard they were lobbying the ACO for garage 56.

Can't see toyota ditching Hybrid. They've said that its developing the tech for road cars which interests them

[lowdrag]

Things are very tight-lipped at the ACO, and no wonder. The WEC is a big part of their gravy train, or has been for this century. No Audi, an estimated loss of £5 million revenue to the town of Le Mans, let alone the ACO loss. Company ACO cars were all Audis. Now Porsche are gone, and as we all saw with Porsche hounding down the LMP2 with contemptuous ease, Toyota will only have to cruise around to win. A one-horse race indeed. Will that lead to a big reduction in the number of spectators too, say down to 200,000 from 250,000? They all spend a lot of money here during race week. I shall be seeing a few people in the coming weeks and will see if I can find out the current thinking at headquarters.

[anonymous-user]

Our Eurotunnel crossing is booked for next year, so hopefully they sort something out !

[Storer]

lowdrag said:

Things are very tight-lipped at the ACO, and no wonder. The WEC is a big part of their gravy train, or has been for this century. No Audi, an estimated loss of £5 million revenue to the town of Le Mans, let alone the ACO loss. Company ACO cars were all Audis. Now Porsche are gone, and as we all saw with Porsche hounding down the LMP2 with contemptuous ease, Toyota will only have to cruise around to win. A one-horse race indeed. Will that lead to a big reduction in the number of spectators too, say down to 200,000 from 250,000? They all spend a lot of money here during race week. I shall be seeing a few people in the coming weeks and will see if I can find out the current thinking at headquarters.

We all enjoy the racing but it is not our only reason for going to Le Mans.

The theatre, camaraderie, fun, a bit of France, the excuse for a good time, father-son bonding, man time, etc, etc.

They do need to sort the LMP1 costs and keep the difference in performance between the leaders and GTE Pro.
The GTE race is great but not quite the spectacle of the LMP1's. LMP2 is not fast enough for the theatre that is today's Le Mans. Changes needed.

But many of us go for reasons other than the racing......