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LM - 2018 onwards?

LM - 2018 onwards?

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Discussion

Storer

4,611 posts

137 months

Saturday 5th August
quotequote all
lowdrag said:
Things are very tight-lipped at the ACO, and no wonder. The WEC is a big part of their gravy train, or has been for this century. No Audi, an estimated loss of £5 million revenue to the town of Le Mans, let alone the ACO loss. Company ACO cars were all Audis. Now Porsche are gone, and as we all saw with Porsche hounding down the LMP2 with contemptuous ease, Toyota will only have to cruise around to win. A one-horse race indeed. Will that lead to a big reduction in the number of spectators too, say down to 200,000 from 250,000? They all spend a lot of money here during race week. I shall be seeing a few people in the coming weeks and will see if I can find out the current thinking at headquarters.
We all enjoy the racing but it is not our only reason for going to Le Mans.

The theatre, camaraderie, fun, a bit of France, the excuse for a good time, father-son bonding, man time, etc, etc.

They do need to sort the LMP1 costs and keep the difference in performance between the leaders and GTE Pro.
The GTE race is great but not quite the spectacle of the LMP1's. LMP2 is not fast enough for the theatre that is today's Le Mans. Changes needed.

But many of us go for reasons other than the racing......



Grahamdub

392 posts

65 months

Sunday 6th August
quotequote all
Storer said:
We all enjoy the racing but it is not our only reason for going to Le Mans.

The theatre, camaraderie, fun, a bit of France, the excuse for a good time, father-son bonding, man time, etc, etc.

They do need to sort the LMP1 costs and keep the difference in performance between the leaders and GTE Pro.
The GTE race is great but not quite the spectacle of the LMP1's. LMP2 is not fast enough for the theatre that is today's Le Mans. Changes needed.

But many of us go for reasons other than the racing......
True, it's even the planning of the trip, the drive down there, seeing other stickered up cars at the services, sitting around a bbq talking crap into the night with the sound of the Corvettes drowning you out every time they go past ..

RobDown

2,229 posts

50 months

Sunday 6th August
quotequote all
There may be a silver lining here. Without LMP1, which was too expensive, we may see other teams and manufactures coming back in.

I think some were put off by the costs, but if you can get TV coverage and have a chance of winning with the much cheaper LMP2/GTE Pro then the appeal will increase enormously

eps

4,775 posts

191 months

Monday 7th August
quotequote all
Muchos lobbying by the ACO I guess... and a rapid flicking through their little black book of manufacturer and others' phone numbers...

wsn03

260 posts

23 months

Monday 7th August
quotequote all
lowdrag said:
Things are very tight-lipped at the ACO, and no wonder. The WEC is a big part of their gravy train, or has been for this century. No Audi, an estimated loss of £5 million revenue to the town of Le Mans, let alone the ACO loss. Company ACO cars were all Audis. Now Porsche are gone, and as we all saw with Porsche hounding down the LMP2 with contemptuous ease, Toyota will only have to cruise around to win. A one-horse race indeed. Will that lead to a big reduction in the number of spectators too, say down to 200,000 from 250,000? They all spend a lot of money here during race week. I shall be seeing a few people in the coming weeks and will see if I can find out the current thinking at headquarters.
Be interesting to see where they go from here, their options look pretty limited. Wonder if Peugeot are still open to coming back if the rules are changed?
I hope they do something to attract more than one manufacturer in LMP1.

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Grahamdub

392 posts

65 months

Monday 7th August
quotequote all
I was at a friends house the other day with my LM 2014 t-shirt on and we noticed that it had all 3 manufacturers on it and wondered what they would put on them this year. If i remember correctly, the 2015 t-shirt had all 3 again, the 2016 just had a Porsche and this years just had the nose of the Porsche. Fairly ominous now, looking at them ! Mind you, I still have a Nissan t-shirt from 2015 which is probably ebay rare by now laugh

wsn03

260 posts

23 months

Monday 7th August
quotequote all
On the subject of what happens next, I found this very interesting....I do hope so!

http://www.automobilemag.com/news/are-porsches-for...

MartG

10,245 posts

126 months

Friday 1st September
quotequote all
Interesting proposals from the ACO - http://www.fiawec.com/en/news/new-look-strengthene...

Including a 'transitional' long 2018/2019 season

2018/19

5 & 6 April: The Prologue, Circuit Paul Ricard (FRA) **
4 & 5 May: WEC 6 Hours of Spa-Francorchamps (BEL)
16 & 17 June: 24 Hours of Le Mans (FRA)
13 & 14 October: 6 Hours of Fuji (JPN)
03 & 04 November: 6 Hours of Shanghai (CHN)
February 2019 Place and event TBC
15 & 16 March 2019: 12 Hours of Sebring (USA) *
3 & 4 May 2019: WEC 6 Hours of Spa-Francorchamps (BEL)
15 &16 June 2019: 24 Hours of Le Mans (FRA)

lowdrag

8,502 posts

135 months

Wednesday 6th September
quotequote all
Following a discussion with an ACO official, plus the statement in the local paper, it seems to be becoming accepted that the world of LMP1 as we know it is dead and buried. The ACO are proposing a simplified non-hybrid series while naturally saying that the current formula is still the best. They have to try and save face. Instead of £200 million a year in the case of Porsche and far more for Audi they are talking of£50 million for the season. On the opposing page of the paper was an article saying that Peugeot want to return but on certain conditions. So, as was said to me on Monday, "goodbye WEC". And Toyota are expected to withdraw too.

wsn03

260 posts

23 months

Wednesday 6th September
quotequote all
lowdrag said:
Following a discussion with an ACO official, plus the statement in the local paper, it seems to be becoming accepted that the world of LMP1 as we know it is dead and buried. The ACO are proposing a simplified non-hybrid series while naturally saying that the current formula is still the best. They have to try and save face. Instead of £200 million a year in the case of Porsche and far more for Audi they are talking of£50 million for the season. On the opposing page of the paper was an article saying that Peugeot want to return but on certain conditions. So, as was said to me on Monday, "goodbye WEC". And Toyota are expected to withdraw too.
Will this mean a return for Peugeot?

eps

4,775 posts

191 months

Wednesday 6th September
quotequote all
wsn03 said:
Will this mean a return for Peugeot?
I think so - DSC article is worth a read... http://www.dailysportscar.com/2017/09/02/unpicking...

or maybe we should all go and watch this instead? http://www.dailysportscar.com/2017/09/05/audi-r8-p...

lowdrag

8,502 posts

135 months

Wednesday 6th September
quotequote all
wsn03 said:
Will this mean a return for Peugeot?
From the article in the Maine Libre it seemed more to me like the Peugeot President's personal pipe dream . There were so many points raised in the article as to what would need to be changed if they were to come back that it, to me at least, seems very doubtful. Even if they do, time has moved on since their retirement and to put a competetive car together for next year would be a monumental task. One only has to look at Honda's woeful attempt to make a F1 engine today, something they did with ease years back. However, I am quite often wrong so let's hope!

//j17

2,825 posts

145 months

Wednesday 6th September
quotequote all
wsn03 said:
Will this mean a return for Peugeot?
If the current plan goes ahead I'd very much doubt it.

While Peugeot didn't want to go the hybrid route they DID want to be fighting with other major car manufacturers. As a global auto manufacturer being beaten by one of your peers is one thing, being beaten by some little privateer team is quite another...

eps

4,775 posts

191 months

Wednesday 6th September
quotequote all
lowdrag said:
From the article in the Maine Libre it seemed more to me like the Peugeot President's personal pipe dream . There were so many points raised in the article as to what would need to be changed if they were to come back that it, to me at least, seems very doubtful. Even if they do, time has moved on since their retirement and to put a competetive car together for next year would be a monumental task. One only has to look at Honda's woeful attempt to make a F1 engine today, something they did with ease years back. However, I am quite often wrong so let's hope!
To be fair Honda tried to do something 'different' in an attempt to steal a march on the other F1 engine designs.. This didn't go well and they've now had to revert to a similar approach to everyone else. They've lost massive amounts of time and have tried to avoid hiring in expertise which hasn't helped them either. They're literally learning on their feet and there's not a lot of testing that can go on in modern F1 which hasn't helped them either, back in the day they could have pounded round a circuit somewhere and resolved 'packaging' issues and so on.

wsn03

260 posts

23 months

Wednesday 6th September
quotequote all
eps said:
wsn03 said:
Will this mean a return for Peugeot?
I think so - DSC article is worth a read... http://www.dailysportscar.com/2017/09/02/unpicking...

or maybe we should all go and watch this instead? http://www.dailysportscar.com/2017/09/05/audi-r8-p...
Thanks for the links - I hope so!

wsn03

260 posts

23 months

Wednesday 6th September
quotequote all
lowdrag said:
wsn03 said:
Will this mean a return for Peugeot?
From the article in the Maine Libre it seemed more to me like the Peugeot President's personal pipe dream . There were so many points raised in the article as to what would need to be changed if they were to come back that it, to me at least, seems very doubtful. Even if they do, time has moved on since their retirement and to put a competetive car together for next year would be a monumental task. One only has to look at Honda's woeful attempt to make a F1 engine today, something they did with ease years back. However, I am quite often wrong so let's hope!
Thanks for the reply...still I live in hope!

Edited by wsn03 on Thursday 7th September 10:11

wsn03

260 posts

23 months

Wednesday 6th September
quotequote all
//j17 said:
wsn03 said:
Will this mean a return for Peugeot?
If the current plan goes ahead I'd very much doubt it.

While Peugeot didn't want to go the hybrid route they DID want to be fighting with other major car manufacturers. As a global auto manufacturer being beaten by one of your peers is one thing, being beaten by some little privateer team is quite another...
I wonder if the stated intention of McLaren to return will incentivise Peugeot. I'm sure the powers that be must be talking to manufacturers with the same idea in mind?!?

//j17

2,825 posts

145 months

Wednesday 6th September
quotequote all
wsn03 said:
I wonder if the stated intention of McLaren to return will incentivise Peugeot. I'm sure the powers that be must be talking to manufacturers with the same idea in mind?!?
I'm still very much in the "I'll believe it when I see it" camp regarding McLaren returning to Le Mans, certainly with an LMP1 but even if they do would Peugeot really see them as worth beating - or more importantly losing to?

lowdrag

8,502 posts

135 months

Thursday 7th September
quotequote all
Having watched the incredible battle in the GT class this year, would we mind it that much if the LMP1 cars disappeared? I mean, they don't have much bearing on reality, and I for one am rather doubtful as to what exactly this formula brings to the table of everyday life. Battery technology perhaps, but there seems to be total agreement that without a big breakthrough the current batteries are up to snuff.

But if the LMP1 cars disappear, where does that leave the LMP2 cars and possibly the LMP3 cars? I wonder, but again, would their loss be that much of a disaster? Nascar is huge, the biggest race in Australia is the Bathurst 500, and if we had a grid full of GT cars, all fifty five of them pounding it out over 24 hours, I think it would be one hell of a spectacle. And a spctacle that is affordable to many.

Please don't flame here; I offer this up for serious discussion, not to be shot at.

wsn03

260 posts

23 months

Thursday 7th September
quotequote all
lowdrag said:
Having watched the incredible battle in the GT class this year, would we mind it that much if the LMP1 cars disappeared? I mean, they don't have much bearing on reality, and I for one am rather doubtful as to what exactly this formula brings to the table of everyday life. Battery technology perhaps, but there seems to be total agreement that without a big breakthrough the current batteries are up to snuff.

But if the LMP1 cars disappear, where does that leave the LMP2 cars and possibly the LMP3 cars? I wonder, but again, would their loss be that much of a disaster? Nascar is huge, the biggest race in Australia is the Bathurst 500, and if we had a grid full of GT cars, all fifty five of them pounding it out over 24 hours, I think it would be one hell of a spectacle. And a spctacle that is affordable to many.

Please don't flame here; I offer this up for serious discussion, not to be shot at.
I've wondered the same myself - GT - good close racing, full of manufacturers battling it out.

The thing with LMP1 / 2 though, and I'm not an expert in car racing but a very much outside fan (I only watch Spa and Le Mans, no other car races period) the look of those LMP1 and LMP2 cars is very very cool indeed, and the contrast / range of different classes and cars is a huge appeal. For a bloke not into car racing Le Mans has totally captured me.