Le Mans 24hr Race Thread

[MiniMan64]

df76 said:

The current lmp1 cars get another couple of goes, and fully expect 2020 to be privateer only. That’s their chance. I wouldn’t be surprised if Toyota weren’t there in 2019, but more likely that they will just start to make big savings from this point on and finish the programme as expected.

I’d imagine Toyota will see it through as it’s all part of the same season. No point in bailing now when they’d have a pretty good chance at back to back titles.

Would be great to see them put Button in the car with Fred, he seems to have enjoyed himself, he’s been pretty quick and he’s fairly popular and well known in Japan too. They can have themselves a little Triple Crown battle...

[p1stonhead]

chrisr111r said:

Alonso certainly deserves respect for his decision to partake in 2 different race programmes, and being immediately on the pace at LM was impressive given the scale of the task, I guess that is what people mean when they say he's the best driver -

To be fair, if you are in F1 you are probably fine to race anything.

Hulkenburg won first go at Le Mans too.

[E65Ross]

p1stonhead said:

Clockwork Cupcake said:

SevenR said:

I've always wanted Toyota to win, but this felt like a hollow victory to me. No competition.

Apart from the victory of getting to the end without crashing or breaking down, you mean?

An achievement for sure. But they had no one to beat on pace, only themselves on reliability.

And you don't find that a challenge in itself...to build a car that much better than the competition which doesn't brake down and is easy enough to drive for 24 hours?

[SevenR]

p1stonhead said:

Clockwork Cupcake said:

SevenR said:

I've always wanted Toyota to win, but this felt like a hollow victory to me. No competition.

Apart from the victory of getting to the end without crashing or breaking down, you mean?

An achievement for sure. But they had no one to beat on pace, only themselves on reliability.

Exactly. They beat Le Man itself in finishing, but it's nothing like beating the other teams like Audi and Porsche.The last few years Toyota have had amazing pace, but no reliability. Who's to say this year with them being reliable, they weren't actually that fast and so wouldn't have won anyway? We'll never know.....to little too late.
Both Reb and SMP LMP1 were on the same pace in 2018 that the factory Porsches were on in 2017.

[SevenR]

E65Ross said:

p1stonhead said:

Clockwork Cupcake said:

SevenR said:

I've always wanted Toyota to win, but this felt like a hollow victory to me. No competition.

Apart from the victory of getting to the end without crashing or breaking down, you mean?

An achievement for sure. But they had no one to beat on pace, only themselves on reliability.

And you don't find that a challenge in itself...to build a car that much better than the competition which doesn't brake down and is easy enough to drive for 24 hours?

"Much better than the competition" What competition? That's my point. There wasn't any.

[p1stonhead]

E65Ross said:

p1stonhead said:

Clockwork Cupcake said:

SevenR said:

I've always wanted Toyota to win, but this felt like a hollow victory to me. No competition.

Apart from the victory of getting to the end without crashing or breaking down, you mean?

An achievement for sure. But they had no one to beat on pace, only themselves on reliability.

And you don't find that a challenge in itself...to build a car that much better than the competition which doesn't brake down and is easy enough to drive for 24 hours?

Can you actually read? Or did you just blurt out whatever was in your head?

I said the exact same as what you just did!

[VladD]

chrisr111r said:

I take it the suggested penalties for #8 (reversing in the pit box and spinning wheels on the jacks) either weren't spotted or were ignored by race control?

The spinning the wheels thing was interesting. For me spinning the wheels means lighting them up as you pull away. I assume that this rule is there to stop people potentially getting out of control when there are pit crew around and causing an accident. I don't think that rule applies to the wheels rotating while the car is jacked up, though that too could have an element of danger for those in close proximity. Two slightly different meanings of "spinning" that I think caused some confusion. After all, if the wheels aren't spinning (rotating) when the car goes to move away, then it isn't moving.

[Vaud]

VladD said:

chrisr111r said:

I take it the suggested penalties for #8 (reversing in the pit box and spinning wheels on the jacks) either weren't spotted or were ignored by race control?

The spinning the wheels thing was interesting. For me spinning the wheels means lighting them up as you pull away. I assume that this rule is there to stop people potentially getting out of control when there are pit crew around and causing an accident. I don't think that rule applies to the wheels rotating while the car is jacked up, though that too could have an element of danger for those in close proximity. Two slightly different meanings of "spinning" that I think caused some confusion. After all, if the wheels aren't spinning (rotating) when the car goes to move away, then it isn't moving.

From another forum:

"Nothing will come of it because, contrary to popular belief, spinning the wheels while up on the jacks isn't disallowed. Running the engine during the stop is against rule 10.8.1.22 - which IIRC is what teams are punished for when a car "spins its wheels" on the jack. Toyota doesn't run the ICE in the pitlane, so no penalty under that rule. People (especially the RLM team) have been conflating this with 10.8.1.15. "It is strictly prohibited to spin the wheels when a car leaves the pit". So as far as I can see, you're allowed to spin the wheels as much as you like while it's up on jacks, as long as you don't do it using the ICE."

[E65Ross]

p1stonhead said:

E65Ross said:

p1stonhead said:

Clockwork Cupcake said:

SevenR said:

I've always wanted Toyota to win, but this felt like a hollow victory to me. No competition.

Apart from the victory of getting to the end without crashing or breaking down, you mean?

An achievement for sure. But they had no one to beat on pace, only themselves on reliability.

And you don't find that a challenge in itself...to build a car that much better than the competition which doesn't brake down and is easy enough to drive for 24 hours?

Can you actually read? Or did you just blurt out whatever was in your head?

I said the exact same as what you just did!

Yes, I can read thank you. However, the "but" in your sentence alluded to the fact you don't think what they did was an achievement, hence my comment.

[SevenR]

VladD said:

chrisr111r said:

I take it the suggested penalties for #8 (reversing in the pit box and spinning wheels on the jacks) either weren't spotted or were ignored by race control?

The spinning the wheels thing was interesting. For me spinning the wheels means lighting them up as you pull away. I assume that this rule is there to stop people potentially getting out of control when there are pit crew around and causing an accident. I don't think that rule applies to the wheels rotating while the car is jacked up, though that too could have an element of danger for those in close proximity. Two slightly different meanings of "spinning" that I think caused some confusion. After all, if the wheels aren't spinning (rotating) when the car goes to move away, then it isn't moving.

They were spinning rather rapidly before the car was even beginning to lower to the ground. I actually didn't know they didn't get a time penalty for this. Should have according to the commentators take on the rules and others being done for it previoulsy.

[p1stonhead]

E65Ross said:

p1stonhead said:

E65Ross said:

p1stonhead said:

Clockwork Cupcake said:

SevenR said:

I've always wanted Toyota to win, but this felt like a hollow victory to me. No competition.

Apart from the victory of getting to the end without crashing or breaking down, you mean?

An achievement for sure. But they had no one to beat on pace, only themselves on reliability.

And you don't find that a challenge in itself...to build a car that much better than the competition which doesn't brake down and is easy enough to drive for 24 hours?

Can you actually read? Or did you just blurt out whatever was in your head?

I said the exact same as what you just did!

Yes, I can read thank you. However, the "but" in your sentence alluded to the fact you don't think what they did was an achievement, hence my comment.

You cant read. What do my first four words say?

Every single word in my original statement was factual.

They won.
It was an achivement reliability wise.
They were not racing anyone pace wise.

[Dr Z]

E65Ross said:

p1stonhead said:

Clockwork Cupcake said:

SevenR said:

I've always wanted Toyota to win, but this felt like a hollow victory to me. No competition.

Apart from the victory of getting to the end without crashing or breaking down, you mean?

An achievement for sure. But they had no one to beat on pace, only themselves on reliability.

And you don't find that a challenge in itself...to build a car that much better than the competition which doesn't brake down and is easy enough to drive for 24 hours?

Pace wise Toyota had no competition at this race but I wouldn't consider this a hollow win because they proved themselves to be more than competitive with the other manufacturers when they were in the series in previous years.

They showed good pace and better pace than last year's winners. It’s just as likely that they would have beat the VAG cars if they'd bothered to turn up, IMO.

Plus I liked that Alonso's presence made some sections of the sportscar fans uncomfortable. Whatever you think of this guy's talents behind the wheel of a car, he made a significant contribution to the race win with his night driving, IMO.

[SevenR]

Vaud said:

VladD said:

chrisr111r said:

I take it the suggested penalties for #8 (reversing in the pit box and spinning wheels on the jacks) either weren't spotted or were ignored by race control?

The spinning the wheels thing was interesting. For me spinning the wheels means lighting them up as you pull away. I assume that this rule is there to stop people potentially getting out of control when there are pit crew around and causing an accident. I don't think that rule applies to the wheels rotating while the car is jacked up, though that too could have an element of danger for those in close proximity. Two slightly different meanings of "spinning" that I think caused some confusion. After all, if the wheels aren't spinning (rotating) when the car goes to move away, then it isn't moving.

From another forum:

"Nothing will come of it because, contrary to popular belief, spinning the wheels while up on the jacks isn't disallowed. Running the engine during the stop is against rule 10.8.1.22 - which IIRC is what teams are punished for when a car "spins its wheels" on the jack. Toyota doesn't run the ICE in the pitlane, so no penalty under that rule. People (especially the RLM team) have been conflating this with 10.8.1.15. "It is strictly prohibited to spin the wheels when a car leaves the pit". So as far as I can see, you're allowed to spin the wheels as much as you like while it's up on jacks, as long as you don't do it using the ICE."

Interesting.... Thanks for that info.

[SevenR]

Dr Z said:

E65Ross said:

p1stonhead said:

Clockwork Cupcake said:

SevenR said:

I've always wanted Toyota to win, but this felt like a hollow victory to me. No competition.

Apart from the victory of getting to the end without crashing or breaking down, you mean?

An achievement for sure. But they had no one to beat on pace, only themselves on reliability.

And you don't find that a challenge in itself...to build a car that much better than the competition which doesn't brake down and is easy enough to drive for 24 hours?

Pace wise Toyota had no competition at this race but I wouldn't consider this a hollow win because they proved themselves to be more than competitive with the other manufacturers when they were in the series in previous years.

They showed good pace and better pace than last year's winners. It’s just as likely that they would have beat the VAG cars if they'd bothered to turn up, IMO.

Plus I liked that Alonso's presence made some sections of the sportscar fans uncomfortable. Whatever you think of this guy's talents behind the wheel of a car, he made a significant contribution to the race win with his night driving, IMO.

Your statement here - It’s just as likely that they would have beat the VAG cars if they'd bothered to turn up, IMO.

That's just your opinion. That's my issue.
Toyota have always had better pace than Audi or Porsche. So maybe this year the fact they had the reliability too would have seen off the others if they were there.
Hollow victory and just not quite as enjoyable for me as a Toyota fan.

[olliethehut]

Dr Z said:

Pace wise Toyota had no competition at this race but I wouldn't consider this a hollow win because they proved themselves to be more than competitive with the other manufacturers when they were in the series in previous years.

They showed good pace and better pace than last year's winners. It’s just as likely that they would have beat the VAG cars if they'd bothered to turn up, IMO.

Plus I liked that Alonso's presence made some sections of the sportscar fans uncomfortable. Whatever you think of this guy's talents behind the wheel of a car, he made a significant contribution to the race win with his night driving, IMO.

Alonsos presence was a massive impact on the race. Many sports car fans (and commentators) should be a little ashamed of their treatment of him IMHO.
Maybe he wasn't as open with the press as they would have liked, but he had been brought in to do a job, and he did it very, very well.
The whole Toyota organisation seemed on point this weekend - No stupid offs, no silly pit mistakes. Just a metronomic, almost Audi like running of the race. Fair play to them, Alonso wouldn't have come cheap, hopefully he'll be back next year to complete the world championship.

[p1stonhead]

Dr Z said:

E65Ross said:

p1stonhead said:

Clockwork Cupcake said:

SevenR said:

I've always wanted Toyota to win, but this felt like a hollow victory to me. No competition.

Apart from the victory of getting to the end without crashing or breaking down, you mean?

An achievement for sure. But they had no one to beat on pace, only themselves on reliability.

And you don't find that a challenge in itself...to build a car that much better than the competition which doesn't brake down and is easy enough to drive for 24 hours?

Pace wise Toyota had no competition at this race but I wouldn't consider this a hollow win because they proved themselves to be more than competitive with the other manufacturers when they were in the series in previous years.

They showed good pace and better pace than last year's winners. It’s just as likely that they would have beat the VAG cars if they'd bothered to turn up, IMO.

Plus I liked that Alonso's presence made some sections of the sportscar fans uncomfortable. Whatever you think of this guy's talents behind the wheel of a car, he made a significant contribution to the race win with his night driving, IMO.

That is impossible to say though. They havent done it in 20 attempts - why would the odds be with them this year?

[The Leaper]

Toyota have not had 20 attempts. This year was the 20th anniversary of their first attempt in 1998. They have been absent for a significant number of years

R.

[chrisr111r]

olliethehut said:

Alonsos presence was a massive impact on the race. Many sports car fans (and commentators) should be a little ashamed of their treatment of him IMHO.
Maybe he wasn't as open with the press as they would have liked, but he had been brought in to do a job, and he did it very, very well.
The whole Toyota organisation seemed on point this weekend - No stupid offs, no silly pit mistakes. Just a metronomic, almost Audi like running of the race. Fair play to them, Alonso wouldn't have come cheap, hopefully he'll be back next year to complete the world championship.

Apart from #7 missing the pit altogether for some seemingly inexplicable reason - can only have been driver brain fade as surely they would've/should've been on the radio

[VladD]

DELETED: Comment made by a member who's account has been deleted.

The other good thing about the WEC app is that the whole race is available to re-watch, available in hour long chunks. I'll be watching the 5 hours I missed overnight at some point over the next few days.

[SevenR]

olliethehut said:

Dr Z said:

Pace wise Toyota had no competition at this race but I wouldn't consider this a hollow win because they proved themselves to be more than competitive with the other manufacturers when they were in the series in previous years.

They showed good pace and better pace than last year's winners. It’s just as likely that they would have beat the VAG cars if they'd bothered to turn up, IMO.

Plus I liked that Alonso's presence made some sections of the sportscar fans uncomfortable. Whatever you think of this guy's talents behind the wheel of a car, he made a significant contribution to the race win with his night driving, IMO.

Alonsos presence was a massive impact on the race. Many sports car fans (and commentators) should be a little ashamed of their treatment of him IMHO.
Maybe he wasn't as open with the press as they would have liked, but he had been brought in to do a job, and he did it very, very well.
The whole Toyota organisation seemed on point this weekend - No stupid offs, no silly pit mistakes. Just a metronomic, almost Audi like running of the race. Fair play to them, Alonso wouldn't have come cheap, hopefully he'll be back next year to complete the world championship.

I'm unsure what all the negative press was. I'm happy to see him in the winning team. He actually started the race with his wee flag wave when I was there in 2014.