2019 and 2020 LMP1 questions?

2019 and 2020 LMP1 questions?

Author
Discussion

RobbyJ

Original Poster:

720 posts

157 months

Tuesday 6th November
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In my usual way I temporarily lose interest in WEC after LM and having just booked up for 2019 I was wondering what teams will be left in LMP1 for 2019. Are Toyota coming back, if so I assume the LMP1 field will be similar to 2018?

I’ve heard about the changes for 2020 which sound great, but my initial, possibly ignorant thought was, won’t the LMP2 cars be quicker than these hypercar based P1 cars? Do we know yet which manufactures have committed to or expressed and interest in the new 2020 P1 class?

Sorry, this has probably been answered elsewhere but as it’s a bit dead around here at the moment I thought I’d ask.

FredericRobinson

1,533 posts

167 months

Tuesday 6th November
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Glickenhaus are saying they'll be there in 2020

99dndd

1,042 posts

24 months

Tuesday 6th November
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With the WEC 'Superseason' running until Le Mans 2019, it is highly likely that all the full season WEC cars are at Le Mans next year.

Dailysportscar did a feature trying to predict the grid here: http://www.dailysportscar.com/2018/11/02/the-2019-...

Not sure what's going to happen for 2020 but it will be interesting to see.

RobbyJ

Original Poster:

720 posts

157 months

Tuesday 6th November
quotequote all
99dndd said:
With the WEC 'Superseason' running until Le Mans 2019, it is highly likely that all the full season WEC cars are at Le Mans next year.

Dailysportscar did a feature trying to predict the grid here: http://www.dailysportscar.com/2018/11/02/the-2019-...

Not sure what's going to happen for 2020 but it will be interesting to see.
That’s great thank you, so it will be a repeat of the boring 2018 race then (joking, really enjoyed the race, especially P2 and GTEpro).

Really interested to see who joins in 2020 and the cars in action.

ellroy

5,497 posts

160 months

Tuesday 6th November
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The WEC have taken some steps to reduce the disparity between Toyota and the rest already, maybe more to be done tbh, but at least some acknowledgement of the issue. So maybe 2019 will be closer, fingers crossed.

As regards 2020 they’ve stated that P2 will need to be reigned in to ensure P1, or whatever it gets called, remains the top class. With a spec engine package and limited chassis that’s probably an easier task than it would be in say GTE or P1 where there’s such a disparity of engineering solutions. I have to say I think 2020 could be really good, but perhaps a little more pain to suffer first?
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49neil

48 posts

154 months

Tuesday 6th November
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2019 'should' be the same teams as 2018, as it's the same 'super season'


2020 is the end of the 2019-2020 season (starts est. September 2019 at Silverstone and finshes at LM 2020) with the same regs as currently

2021 will be the year to go (new regs come in for 20-21 season, with new P1 class), and P2 being reined in a little to make them slower than currently

delta0

1,084 posts

41 months

Tuesday 6th November
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Le Mans 2020 should be when we see the hyper cars appear https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/motorsport-le-m...

GrahamG

1,085 posts

202 months

Wednesday 7th November
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No it won't - the new cars come in for the 2020/21 season - so debut in September 2020 and Le Mans in 2021

GrahamG

1,085 posts

202 months

Wednesday 7th November
quotequote all
No it won't - the new cars come in for the 2020/21 season - so debut in September 2020 and Le Mans in 2021

//j17

3,045 posts

158 months

Wednesday 7th November
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ellroy said:
The WEC have taken some steps to reduce the disparity between Toyota and the rest already, maybe more to be done tbh, but at least some acknowledgement of the issue. So maybe 2019 will be closer, fingers crossed.
If I remember corretly the changes introduced at Fuji (slight power reduction for Toyota/removal of artifical one lap stint difference between LMP1H and LMP1P) will only apply to Shanghai 2018, Sebring 2019 and Spa 2019. For Le Mans 2019 currently it will be the same as Le Mans 2018.

ellroy said:
As regards 2020 they’ve stated that P2 will need to be reigned in to ensure P1, or whatever it gets called, remains the top class. With a spec engine package and limited chassis that’s probably an easier task than it would be in say GTE or P1 where there’s such a disparity of engineering solutions. I have to say I think 2020 could be really good, but perhaps a little more pain to suffer first?
It's not just LMP2 that will need to be slowed. Even now there's little difference on the straights between LMP2 and GTEPro cars, the LMP2s getting their extra lap time from their aero in the corners, so both GTEPro and GTEAm will need to be slowed too.

wsn03

450 posts

36 months

Wednesday 7th November
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GrahamG said:
No it won't - the new cars come in for the 2020/21 season - so debut in September 2020 and Le Mans in 2021
Sportscar 365 report it as follows:
Machines styled on hypercars and concept cars with hybrid powertrains producing 965bhp will fight for victory in the Le Mans 24 Hours from 2020.

//j17

3,045 posts

158 months

Wednesday 7th November
quotequote all
wsn03 said:
Machines styled on hypercars and concept cars with hybrid powertrains producing 965bhp will fight for victory in the Le Mans 24 Hours from 2020.
With the WEC season now spanning 2 years there are two ways of reading that. Does "from" there mean "starting with" or "starting after"?

Logically you'd have to go with the latter, making the 2021 race their first Le Mans (last face in the 2020/2021 WEC season). If not then:
a) They either need to be joining from the start of the 2019/2020 season, which with no signed-off rulebook or indications anyone has started building any cars seems unlikely.
b) You're going to have to permit teams to change their car completely mid-season.
c) Have a hell of a lot of cars on the grid (2019/2020 WEC season teams, auto-entry teams like ELMS/ALMS/IMSA class winners, AND new hypercar teams.

In the latter two cases you're going to have a complete st-show grandfathering the different classes together too. Do you introduce your all new hypercars, only to have them trounced by the current LMP1s and fighting against the middle of the LMP2 pack? Not a good first impression. Or do you cripple the LMP1s when they come in? If you were Rebellion and sitting 3rd in the championship with SMP in 4th would it give you that warm fuzzy feeling inside if SMP turn up to the next race with a new hypercar and you get slowed down to ensure they are faster, and SMP end up with the silverware at the end of the season?

joema

2,210 posts

114 months

Wednesday 7th November
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Next year is the last Le mans using current regs. We'll probably never see a faster car lap round there again. Not sure how much difference it will visibly make though.

The Surveyor

6,101 posts

172 months

Wednesday 7th November
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wsn03 said:
GrahamG said:
No it won't - the new cars come in for the 2020/21 season - so debut in September 2020 and Le Mans in 2021
Sportscar 365 report it as follows:
Machines styled on hypercars and concept cars with hybrid powertrains producing 965bhp will fight for victory in the Le Mans 24 Hours from 2020.
It wouldn't be the first time the ACO have allowed non-championship cars to run at Le Mans, I wouldn't be surprised if they don't allow one or two of the new P1 type cars to run at Le Mans in 2020 so they can gauge their comparable performance and to keep ticket sales strong.

wsn03

450 posts

36 months

Wednesday 7th November
quotequote all
//j17 said:
With the WEC season now spanning 2 years there are two ways of reading that. Does "from" there mean "starting with" or "starting after"?

Logically you'd have to go with the latter, making the 2021 race their first Le Mans (last face in the 2020/2021 WEC season). If not then:
a) They either need to be joining from the start of the 2019/2020 season, which with no signed-off rulebook or indications anyone has started building any cars seems unlikely.
b) You're going to have to permit teams to change their car completely mid-season.
c) Have a hell of a lot of cars on the grid (2019/2020 WEC season teams, auto-entry teams like ELMS/ALMS/IMSA class winners, AND new hypercar teams.

In the latter two cases you're going to have a complete st-show grandfathering the different classes together too. Do you introduce your all new hypercars, only to have them trounced by the current LMP1s and fighting against the middle of the LMP2 pack? Not a good first impression. Or do you cripple the LMP1s when they come in? If you were Rebellion and sitting 3rd in the championship with SMP in 4th would it give you that warm fuzzy feeling inside if SMP turn up to the next race with a new hypercar and you get slowed down to ensure they are faster, and SMP end up with the silverware at the end of the season?
I hope the new format is 2020 Le Mans, i don't think I can watch another 2 yrs of Toyota against themselves.

24lemons

2,192 posts

120 months

Wednesday 7th November
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The way I have heard it explained on Marshall Pruett and Graham Goodwin’s Podcast is that Le Mans 2021 will be the first year with the new P1 cars.

In order for the new cars to be at Le Mans in 2020 they would have to be ready to go in September 2019 for the start of the new season. Le Mans 2020 being the final race of that season.

The cars won’t be introduced mid season especially as it includes the introduction of a new class and rulebook. The name of which, we won’t know until next year when we will have the chance to vote on our favourite!

FredericRobinson

1,533 posts

167 months

Wednesday 7th November
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Absolutely, definitely the WEC season of 20/21, so new class will not be at Le Mans until 2021

wsn03

450 posts

36 months

Wednesday 7th November
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Well that makes me wonder how they will be able to sustain interest in the leading class. I would probably miss 2020 if it weren't for 5 days away from the missus and kids, French steak soaked in Balsamic vinegar, being in France, being with my mates, getting really p1ssed, smoking fags and watching race cars at midnight at Tetre Rouge.
I tell you its a close call

24lemons

2,192 posts

120 months

Wednesday 7th November
quotequote all
The indications I have heard suggest that Toyota themselves may be coming to the realisation that competition is needed and they may be open to ways of closing the gap to the Non hybrid LMP1 cars. Quite what that will be, I am not sure. It might not be limited to just making them faster on the track.

//j17

3,045 posts

158 months

Thursday 8th November
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Yep, any change to the EOT that's detrimental to Toyota has to be approved but their agreement to the Fuji updates I think shows they understand there needs to be a balance between racing and winning.

I have a feeling we might see some further tweaks ahead of Shanghai, but again only for the regular WEC races and excluding Le Mans. Then, when they have the WEC title, back to back Le Mans wins, and become the most successful Japanese manufacturer at Le Mans they will agree to more for the 2019/2020 season.