Goodbye LMP 1 hello Hypercars

Goodbye LMP 1 hello Hypercars

Author
Discussion

wsn03

852 posts

49 months

Monday 22nd July
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Some Gump said:
Pericoloso said:
Who elected you king of the internet ?

Name calling,so mature.
I hereby nominate the other guy as king of the internet.
Seconded

FredericRobinson

1,848 posts

180 months

Monday 22nd July
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If he was elected wouldn't he be president or something, not king?

wsn03

852 posts

49 months

Monday 22nd July
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FredericRobinson said:
If he was elected wouldn't he be president or something, not king?
Not according to the constitution of the internet royal appointments clause 8.1.2 - "Nominated appointment of the King of The Internet - elected descent"

Some Gump

11,141 posts

134 months

Monday 22nd July
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Well if that's the case i believe that motion has passed.

Sorry, pedantic bloke - looks like you were being a bit of a dick after all smile

FredericRobinson

1,848 posts

180 months

Monday 22nd July
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As a pedant I need to point out that no-one has disputed that I was being a dick, so I can't have been shown to be a dick 'after all'.

wsn03

852 posts

49 months

Tuesday 23rd July
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FredericRobinson said:
As a pedant I need to point out that no-one has disputed that I was being a dick, so I can't have been shown to be a dick 'after all'.
Im confused, but as El Capitano of the internet I might consider having you banned.

FredericRobinson

1,848 posts

180 months

Tuesday 23rd July
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It’s the least I deserve

//j17

3,313 posts

171 months

Tuesday 23rd July
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Still a fun season to be had before we actually say hello to the Hypoercar regs, and with the latest ACO/FIA announcement it seems Toyota are continuing to agree to the gap between HY and NA LMP1 cars being reduced/equalized, so you have to doff your cap to them on that front.

http://www.dailysportscar.com/2019/07/22/fia-wec-l...

wsn03

852 posts

49 months

Tuesday 23rd July
quotequote all
//j17 said:
Still a fun season to be had before we actually say hello to the Hypoercar regs, and with the latest ACO/FIA announcement it seems Toyota are continuing to agree to the gap between HY and NA LMP1 cars being reduced/equalized, so you have to doff your cap to them on that front.

http://www.dailysportscar.com/2019/07/22/fia-wec-l...
I feel sorry for all parties, in the last year of current rules they are dealing with a sinking ship. So difficult to know what they can do to make it worthwhile for everyone

Big Robbo

270 posts

94 months

Tuesday 23rd July
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You get the feeling this season is to be endured not enjoyed....

//j17

3,313 posts

171 months

Tuesday 23rd July
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Personally I feel the other way - this year will be a classic and next year, the first of Hypercar will be dull. I mean, just how great is the 2021 grid looking?

- Toyota - should turn up, be fast and reliable and win.
- A-M - will turn up, be slow and unreliable, break down and not finish (anyone else remember the B09/60?).
- ByKolles - will probably turn up, but give A-M a run for their money in the "Who can spend most time in the garage" competition.
- Glickenhaus - will they even make it?

Which just leaves the grandfathered LMP1NA cars - possibly with their best chance of winning outright if Toyota hit reliability issues with their new car.

vincegail

2,101 posts

103 months

Tuesday 23rd July
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I really hope Koenigsegg will turn up with (a race-version of) their Jesko!
I like them a lot, but I know that honestly, they're too small to make a big impact, but who knows, it could be 1980 all over again!

Oldwolf

433 posts

141 months

Tuesday 23rd July
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I'm really hoping (and believing a little bit!) that the Hypercar class is just the tonic that WEC needs.

It's been mooted in the past that we'd see the best supercars tussling at the top but the difference now is that the Hypercars have the potential to be so fast with all the aero that they've got that they are a credible alternative to full prototypes.

Back in my younger days the XJ220 and F40 were incredible road cars but wouldn't see which way a Group C car would go.

Of course I'd be grateful if nobody mentioned the McLaren F1 which disproves my comment that road cars in the 90's weren't fast enough to compete at the top!

I'm excited and I'll be there :-)

//j17

3,313 posts

171 months

Wednesday 24th July
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Oldwolf said:
It's been mooted in the past that we'd see the best supercars tussling at the top but the difference now is that the Hypercars have the potential to be so fast with all the aero that they've got that they are a credible alternative to full prototypes.
Yea, hypercars are now SO fast they are expected to be...not quite as fast as the current LMP2 cars.

wsn03

852 posts

49 months

Wednesday 24th July
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//j17 said:
Oldwolf said:
It's been mooted in the past that we'd see the best supercars tussling at the top but the difference now is that the Hypercars have the potential to be so fast with all the aero that they've got that they are a credible alternative to full prototypes.
Yea, hypercars are now SO fast they are expected to be...not quite as fast as the current LMP2 cars.
eh? How's that going to work?

Oldwolf

433 posts

141 months

Wednesday 24th July
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//j17 said:
Yea, hypercars are now SO fast they are expected to be...not quite as fast as the current LMP2 cars.
IMHO with the starting point they have for the Hypercars they can regulate (BOP if you like) the lap time up or down to suit.

The Hypercars can all easily have 1000hp+ and have aero so they can grip and go, the potential issue with achieving this is that they are lardy old beasts compared to full prototypes.

Happy to be corrected by people who understand engineering :-)

//j17

3,313 posts

171 months

Wednesday 24th July
quotequote all
wsn03 said:
//j17 said:
Oldwolf said:
It's been mooted in the past that we'd see the best supercars tussling at the top but the difference now is that the Hypercars have the potential to be so fast with all the aero that they've got that they are a credible alternative to full prototypes.
Yea, hypercars are now SO fast they are expected to be...not quite as fast as the current LMP2 cars.
eh? How's that going to work?
LMP2 are due to lose ~50BHP in order to maintain the gap between LMP2 and 'LMP1'. There will then be a huge mess of BOP in 'LMP1' as they try and equalise prototypes vs road cars, NA vs turbo, hybrid vs non-hybrid, etc, etc, etc.

Hopfully the 'points penalty' system being introduced this year will avoid too much sandbagging and trying to game the system.

Edited by //j17 on Wednesday 24th July 14:08

Red Firecracker

5,094 posts

175 months

Monday 29th July
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wsn03 said:
//j17 said:
Yea, hypercars are now SO fast they are expected to be...not quite as fast as the current LMP2 cars.
eh? How's that going to work?
It's not a case of how fast CAN they go, it's how fast the ACO WANTS them to go, which is a projected 3:30 minimum Le Mans lap time.

Reading the ACO press conference PDF, they state in both French and English versions (there is a history of translations being 'interesting' that the 3:30 figure is a race average, which makes no sense at all. LMP2 pole for 2019 was an absolute 3:25.345 with fastest race lap of 3:27.611 and a very very rough calculation gives a 3:55 average (based on total time divided by total laps of the winning car). LMP1 gives 3:44 for the winning car). Even Neveu says 3:30 is a minimum with expected being slightly faster, but it is a prime example of how the ACO does its very best to muddy the waters time and again.

3:30 as an average is not going to happen, 3:30 as a minimum is going to be easy to achieve on a stand alone basis, BoPing 'all' the entries down to 3:30 (and the grandfathered LMP1s if any are entered) will be interesting as the sandbagging will likely be legion. It is actually an excellent opportunity to reset things as there are only so many changes that can be made to the circuits, especially Le Mans, to cater for ever decreasing lap times.

Even with the increased lap times, I'd suggest that the spectacle will not be that greatly reduced and the chance to finally see an LMP2 overall winner and the subsequent mess they'll inevitably make of the podium fiasco will make the first year of Hypercar mildly interesting.

Inverness

497 posts

126 months

Monday 29th July
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So can someone please confirm what cars we will be watching at Le Mans 2020? Because if it's the same as this year we may not bother and go to the Classic instead.

Red Firecracker

5,094 posts

175 months

Monday 29th July
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Inverness said:
So can someone please confirm what cars we will be watching at Le Mans 2020? Because if it's the same as this year we may not bother and go to the Classic instead.
At Le Mans 2020 in the top class you will see two Toyota TS050 Hybrid LMP1s going for overall victory. You may see a Rebellion or two, you might see a ByKolles (personally I hope so) and you might see a Ginetta or two, but......

Other than that you'll see the usual LMP2s and GTEs.