Aston Martin out of Hypercar

Aston Martin out of Hypercar

Author
Discussion

LawrieC

563 posts

103 months

Friday 21st February 2020
quotequote all
Lovely car, but a product of silly rules
MikeT66 said:

Tyre Smoke

23,018 posts

260 months

Friday 21st February 2020
quotequote all
MikeT66 said:
Tyre Smoke said:
Then sir, WEC is not for you.

Could I interest sir in the Spa 6h or the LM Classic?

biggrin
biggrin Not in it's current format, no!

I actually think the recent LMP1 years have (pun) driven it down a cul de sac with costs. All manufacturers want cost-effective racing that they can afford and gain publicity from, the fans want proper racing without too much BoP interference (I think, anyway). The hybrid prototypes have killed it in in those terms. Next class is LMP2 - not very soul-stirring. The recent years with Ferrari, Aston Martin, Corvette, Porsche and Ford have been the best - GTLM looked exciting and strong, cars/manufacturers that partisan fans could get behind.

Some of the manufacturers may see LMDh as a way forward (Ferrari don't seem keen) for cost reasons, but it's not really the ethos of Le Mans, IMHO. The other remaining issue is a lot of the manufacturers want (understandably) agreement from IMSA and WEC on regulations as it makes it viable to race one design in two series.

It's certainly a bit of a mess.
I quite agree. Something needed to be done, it was broken. But until there is clarification of this IMSA/WEC regulation, it's a state of limbo. And as such teams are pulling out from what they've seen so far. If they are not careful, it'll be LMP2 and GTE only. Which is getting very very close to ELMS.

LawrieC

563 posts

103 months

Friday 21st February 2020
quotequote all
Tyre Smoke said:
…... If they are not careful, it'll be LMP2 and GTE only...….
They keep finding blind alleys, and now LMDh appears the only option at the top, but as it only uses approved chassis (and approved stock engines) it puts the potential major players off.

I think it was strange that there were as many as 6 private LMP1 cars last year, instead of the usual 2 or 3. With a bit of encouragement, that could have got further, but now they're all scrap.

24lemons

2,629 posts

184 months

Friday 21st February 2020
quotequote all
It seems that LMDh is basically IMSA’s DPI 2.0 with an ACO friendly name change. The ACO clearly recognise that this cheaper formula is the only way they are going to attract a decent number of manufacturers long term.

Isn’t it about time they swallowed their pride, admit that Hypercar is a dead duck and embrace DPI 1.0 for it’s final season and invite them across to Le Mans or even the full WEC season in 2021.

Moving into 2022, everyone will be running the same kit anyway.





MikeT66

2,680 posts

123 months

Friday 21st February 2020
quotequote all
24lemons said:
It seems that LMDh is basically IMSA’s DPI 2.0 with an ACO friendly name change. The ACO clearly recognise that this cheaper formula is the only way they are going to attract a decent number of manufacturers long term.

Isn’t it about time they swallowed their pride, admit that Hypercar is a dead duck and embrace DPI 1.0 for it’s final season and invite them across to Le Mans or even the full WEC season in 2021.

Moving into 2022, everyone will be running the same kit anyway.
My bold - for me, that's the worrying danger. it's sportscar racing. There are enough specification series out there that run the same kit - I'm not sure WEC/Le Mans is where these cars should be running. Le Mans especially was a test of manufacturer's products and their durability, and has given us wonderful machines over the decades, from Alfa, Bugatti, Bentley, Porsche, Ferrari, Ford, Jaguar, Aston Martin, etc. Not sure the hundreds of thousands of fans that turn up every year want to see lookalike cars running the circuit. I think it would lose fans - and in the precarious world of motorsports and the motor industry overall that is not an option.


24lemons

2,629 posts

184 months

Friday 21st February 2020
quotequote all
MikeT66 said:
My bold - for me, that's the worrying danger. it's sportscar racing. There are enough specification series out there that run the same kit - I'm not sure WEC/Le Mans is where these cars should be running. Le Mans especially was a test of manufacturer's products and their durability, and has given us wonderful machines over the decades, from Alfa, Bugatti, Bentley, Porsche, Ferrari, Ford, Jaguar, Aston Martin, etc. Not sure the hundreds of thousands of fans that turn up every year want to see lookalike cars running the circuit. I think it would lose fans - and in the precarious world of motorsports and the motor industry overall that is not an option.
The manufacturers have had the opportunity to demonstrate their technology through LMP1 and more recently LMP1h but where are they? They all said that if this was changed and that was changed, they would come and play again, which led us to Hypercar and the silence is deafening.

DPi has at least allowed manufacturers to run their own engines and get involved for less money.

I’d love to have seen Hypercar succeed. The Valkyrie looked and sounded epic and a grid full of that type of car would have been something to behold. Faced with the reality though, I can’t see any other way to involve OEM’s currently than DPi 2.0

Finally speaking as a spectator who has been attending Le Mans since 2003, I’d much rather see a healthy grid of manufacturer run DPi 2.0 / LMDPh than what we have had recently.

LawrieC

563 posts

103 months

Friday 21st February 2020
quotequote all
24lemons said:
……..Finally speaking as a spectator who has been attending Le Mans since 2003, I’d much rather see a healthy grid of manufacturer run DPi 2.0 / LMDPh than what we have had recently.
So would I, but will they put up with a Dallara or Riley chassis. Some are too proud/stupid, but it worked for Aston and Nissan (years ago) and its never bothered anyone at Indianapolis

DaveTheRave87

2,079 posts

88 months

Friday 21st February 2020
quotequote all
Hypercar was always going to be a dead end. Manufacturers hadn't built cars like the 918, La Ferrari or P1 for competition. Just look how sensitive they got when journalists starting strapping timing equipment to them.

Le Mans is at its healthiest when privateers can compete with manufacturers and have a chance of winning.

I'd like to see a standard formula. Mid engine, closed coupes with an electric motor on the front axle and the engine only allowed to drive the rear wheels.

I'd have a list of approved chassis, engines and motors all at a set price.

You'd be allowed to build your own but you would have a disadvantage such as a smaller fuel tank, battery or reduced tyre allocation if you went your own way.

jonny142

1,503 posts

224 months

Friday 21st February 2020
quotequote all
Am a little confused now what we will see at 'Top tier' in September at Silverstone for the new season , Just Toyota with their Hypercar if not put on hold ?

Tyre Smoke

23,018 posts

260 months

Friday 21st February 2020
quotequote all
And Glickenhaus if they make it in time.

Or perhaps neither. It might be that the ELMS on the Saturday at Silverstone becomes the 'main event' compared to the WEC on the Sunday.

FredericRobinson

Original Poster:

3,668 posts

231 months

Friday 21st February 2020
quotequote all
Glickenhaus have said they won't be ready, Toyota are thinking again, Rebellion are done, could just be Ginetta (although if Toyota call off they'll just make P2 the top class)

BTW, they're running the WEC on the Saturday this year, the ELMS on the Sunday

Tyre Smoke

23,018 posts

260 months

Friday 21st February 2020
quotequote all
Are they?

Perhaps they are already conceding ELMS is the bigger show.

Ginetta aren't putting out a hyper car are they?

Cheeses of Nazareth

789 posts

50 months

Friday 21st February 2020
quotequote all
They made the AMR1 which was a POS that never ran, grizzled about 'rules not being favourable to their road car program' and then, when they got the change they now change their minds.

Its why series should never pander to manufacturers.. this is it, come if you want, is always the best way.

FredericRobinson

Original Poster:

3,668 posts

231 months

Friday 21st February 2020
quotequote all
Ginette aren't no, but it was expected P1s would still be allowed to be 'grandfathered' in for another year, trouble is there aren't many left

Tyre Smoke

23,018 posts

260 months

Friday 21st February 2020
quotequote all
So no chance of LT putting out a a team.

LawrieC

563 posts

103 months

Friday 21st February 2020
quotequote all
Could Glickenhaus be back peddling yet? If it all goes t!ts up, they'll have wasted loads of time and effort.

I'm sure there are some grandfathering rights, which won't be favourable, but a good LMP1 could win next year

24lemons

2,629 posts

184 months

Saturday 22nd February 2020
quotequote all
Interesting to see that Toyota have reaffirmed their commitment to Hypercar. I wonder how next season will shape up. I’m more than a little concerned that it will be ultimately no different to what we have now, Toyota up against nobody but themselves. Hardly a good look for the launch of the WEC’s flagship product.

LawrieC

563 posts

103 months

Saturday 22nd February 2020
quotequote all
After Toyotas announcement, Peugeot have said that they're waiting for the regulations for LMDh to be agreed at the end of March, and they'll announce their intentions. They're developing a Hypercar, but looking into LMDh too, but it would have to have the same weight, same aero and same power.

There's too big a gap, so it looks like there will be another Hypercar

FredericRobinson

Original Poster:

3,668 posts

231 months

Saturday 22nd February 2020
quotequote all
Odd thing for Peugeot to say when the class will be BOP'd

LawrieC

563 posts

103 months

Saturday 22nd February 2020
quotequote all
FredericRobinson said:
Odd thing for Peugeot to say when the class will be BOP'd
If the two aren't close to start with, it will need too much BoP

From memory, Hypercars were aiming for 900 bhp, and current DPs have 600 bhp. That's a big gap to close by BoP