Toyota GR010 Hypercar
Discussion
When I heard the rumours and confirmed specs for the hypercar class all those years ago (4 maybe) I have to say, I was giddy at the thought. But this is not what I expected. It really does just looks like the TS050 with revised front end. I’m sure it’s all new and sparkly underneath, but it just looks like a slight morph from the P1.
I wonder how the profile of the hypercar will compare to the DP2.0, wonder if they will look distinctively different when they eventually get on track. I kind of expected a recognisable hypercar shape rather than bespoke, anyway, whatever happens, let’s just hope we get to see them from trackside somewhere in 21.
I wonder how the profile of the hypercar will compare to the DP2.0, wonder if they will look distinctively different when they eventually get on track. I kind of expected a recognisable hypercar shape rather than bespoke, anyway, whatever happens, let’s just hope we get to see them from trackside somewhere in 21.
It’s a cool looking race car. But looks like every other lmp1 car before it. Not a hyper car
“ The striking new look of the racing prototype reflects the appearance of its inspiration, the GR Super Sport Hypercar which made its public debut during a demonstration run and ceremonial trophy return at last year’s 24 Hours of Le Mans”
Edited by Jordan210 on Thursday 14th January 23:16
I wonder if this is the inspiration for companies like Peugeot to just think, ah, we have a 908, trim bits off, lift the nose, paint it as Alpine, hey presto a hypercar. The more cars which can feasibly fight for victory is a good thing, just a shame I’d hoped for Vulcan v AMG One v One:1 v 918 v P1. Or not the actual cars but the silhouette of those cars backed by factories.
LM240 said:
Messy. At least lmdh seems to be drawing factory teams back in.
Ah the irony.A few years ago: "The manufacturers are leaving LMP1 and shouting that they want a Hypercar class instead, so we're going to drop LMP1 and ask the manufacturers what they want the new class rules to be."
Today: "The manufacturers who drove the new Hypercar class have all dissolved into thin air and everyone is now saying 'We want LMDh cars.'".
There was an article a couple of years ago on Daily Sportscar bemoaning the folly of listening to manufacturers - let them drive things and you end up with a compromise...and lots of them refusing to play as they didn't get exactly the toys they wanted in the toy box. Much better to take the "Build it and they will (hopefully) come" aproach. I mean it seems to be working for DTM - "People are losing interest in our Class One regs. and leaving the sport, let's look at what to change to..."/"OK everyone, we're swapping to GT3."/"Oh look, lots of people coming into DTM again!".
The one big thing they wanted was to be able to race the same machinery in DPi and WEC and they will be able to do that. It makes no sense to limit the chance of racing and effectively take away what we had in the late 90s and early 2000s. Lots of marques and a few customer cars.
It's a shame we have LMH and LMDH but that is where we are.
I think we need to see more machinery before making a decision about the class as a whole - the GR010 is one manufacturer's take on the whole thing. I think the approach will work once we've got 4-5 different marques taking part and seen alongside each other.
It's a shame we have LMH and LMDH but that is where we are.
I think we need to see more machinery before making a decision about the class as a whole - the GR010 is one manufacturer's take on the whole thing. I think the approach will work once we've got 4-5 different marques taking part and seen alongside each other.
On first glance it's just the TS050 with the front bits filled in.
A lot more than that, from what I can gather a lot less powerful than the TS050 as well.
Hopefully these new regs do attract more competition. Got to commend Toyota for continually sticking with endurance racing though, they filled the gap when Peugeot left and have stuck with it once Nissan, Audi and Porsche all abondoned the sport.
A lot more than that, from what I can gather a lot less powerful than the TS050 as well.
Hopefully these new regs do attract more competition. Got to commend Toyota for continually sticking with endurance racing though, they filled the gap when Peugeot left and have stuck with it once Nissan, Audi and Porsche all abondoned the sport.
Think I read in the Toyota press release on DSC that the LMH class are going to be subject to BoP for the first time. Oh the days spent watching practice at LM wondering which of the GT (Ford) teams are sand bagging to get BoP advantage. Now we have the same with premier class as well.
Vette_1978 said:
Think I read in the Toyota press release on DSC that the LMH class are going to be subject to BoP for the first time. Oh the days spent watching practice at LM wondering which of the GT (Ford) teams are sand bagging to get BoP advantage. Now we have the same with premier class as well.
The Ford was so blatant as well, especially at the Spa race before their first Le Man's. eps said:
The one big thing they wanted was to be able to race the same machinery in DPi and WEC and they will be able to do that.
I think (unless I've missed/forgotten about an update) we're still at the point where you'll be able to race an LMDh car in both series but only able to race an LMH in the WEC. It's generally expected that IMSA will get around to permitting LMH cars but as their rules don't change until next year they are going to make sure the BoP actually works in this year's WEC before committing.Personally I'd expect the usual ACO schenanigans - in WEC we'll get a good BoP and wins, or at least competitive racing between LMH and LMDh cars, but come Le Mans we'll have the old "Le Mans special BoP" and a, not stupid but significant advantage for the LMH cars.
I think IMSA's latest feeling is that they remain 'open' to the possibility of allowing Hypercars to race in IMSA but were hoping to use Sebring as an indicator of how they could do that. Ooops, don't think that's going to happen (WEC freight needs to leave for Sebring on the 1st Feb, I believe).
The BoP will be interesting this season (and let's not forget that there was BoP and EoT in P1 last season anyway), as if they allow the Hypercars too much performance over the Alpine LMP1 (and without being cruel, that needs to be the Toyota Hypercars not the ByKolles or Glickenhaus) then it will all get a bit silly, especially with GTE Pro being a shadow of its former self. Alpine must have made the jump to P1 for a reason, especially with Peugeot coming to play again, so annoying them early could be seen as counter intuitive.
WEC need to manage this almost dead rubber season very carefully to build and maintain interest for when (hopefully) Peugeot return in 2022 and the LMDh hordes in 2023. Until then, ELMS > WEC for pure racing...........
The BoP will be interesting this season (and let's not forget that there was BoP and EoT in P1 last season anyway), as if they allow the Hypercars too much performance over the Alpine LMP1 (and without being cruel, that needs to be the Toyota Hypercars not the ByKolles or Glickenhaus) then it will all get a bit silly, especially with GTE Pro being a shadow of its former self. Alpine must have made the jump to P1 for a reason, especially with Peugeot coming to play again, so annoying them early could be seen as counter intuitive.
WEC need to manage this almost dead rubber season very carefully to build and maintain interest for when (hopefully) Peugeot return in 2022 and the LMDh hordes in 2023. Until then, ELMS > WEC for pure racing...........
LMH - What Toyota have built. Full, ground up, developed by themselves prototype. Mucho money.
LMDh - The new, IMSA led, alternative. Existing LMP2 tub with bolt on bits and the ability to skin the bodywork yourselves, so with corporate face. Much MUCH cheaper and is the way Audi and Porsche are going. Will be equal performance (BoP) to LMH.
There is convergence between WEC/ACO and IMSA over LMDh, so from 2023 (?) you can take your pimped up LMP2 tub to race in both Series'. IMSA (for whom there is no love lost within the ACO and vice versa) want to see how LMH develops before opening their doors to it, quite understandably. They were hoping to get some comparative lap times at Sebring in March to help them with that.
Personally, I think it will take a lot of lobbying from Toyota, Peugeot and the other Hypercar runners to IMSA, with definite 'yes we will come for the full season' commitments, to get LMH included.
If you were an OEM, which way would you lean in the current climate? A massive budget line that says Hypercar with little RoI but lots of protected IP, or a much smaller line that says LMDh and the possibility to step back and run customer teams, selling parts and services? I hate to say it but I think circumstances have dealt Hypercar a tough life before it's even started.
LMDh - The new, IMSA led, alternative. Existing LMP2 tub with bolt on bits and the ability to skin the bodywork yourselves, so with corporate face. Much MUCH cheaper and is the way Audi and Porsche are going. Will be equal performance (BoP) to LMH.
There is convergence between WEC/ACO and IMSA over LMDh, so from 2023 (?) you can take your pimped up LMP2 tub to race in both Series'. IMSA (for whom there is no love lost within the ACO and vice versa) want to see how LMH develops before opening their doors to it, quite understandably. They were hoping to get some comparative lap times at Sebring in March to help them with that.
Personally, I think it will take a lot of lobbying from Toyota, Peugeot and the other Hypercar runners to IMSA, with definite 'yes we will come for the full season' commitments, to get LMH included.
If you were an OEM, which way would you lean in the current climate? A massive budget line that says Hypercar with little RoI but lots of protected IP, or a much smaller line that says LMDh and the possibility to step back and run customer teams, selling parts and services? I hate to say it but I think circumstances have dealt Hypercar a tough life before it's even started.
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