FN2 Civic Type R vs Megane R26 230

[HJMS123]

R26 all day from a driving perspective! Someone posted earlier in the thread saying they pulled away from a R26 in a FN2 ... I'm sorry that's bullsh*t! The amount of FN2's and EP3's I've had try to play when I've been in my R26 and it's not even close. As soon as I see a corner I'm gone or even in a straight line the torque in 3rd is enough to put multiple car lengths between them.

FYI I seriously considered an EP3 before I bought my R26 as I love a screaming engine but I don't regret my purcahse one bit.

[amusingduck]

l80ous said:

Drove my Fn2 to spain, and you cant take photos that look as good as these with a Megan.

Beg to differ

[billy939]

HJMS123 said:

R26 all day from a driving perspective! Someone posted earlier in the thread saying they pulled away from a R26 in a FN2 ... I'm sorry that's bullsh*t! The amount of FN2's and EP3's I've had try to play when I've been in my R26 and it's not even close. As soon as I see a corner I'm gone or even in a straight line the torque in 3rd is enough to put multiple car lengths between them.

FYI I seriously considered an EP3 before I bought my R26 as I love a screaming engine but I don't regret my purcahse one bit.

Yeah that was me and I can assure it certainly wasn't bullst

I'm not discounting that in some circumstances the Megane could be quicker, but in reality it will come down to the driver.
Most FN2s once dyno'd run closer to 210bhp and although I'm unsure how reliable the 226bhp claimed by Renault is, if it is anything like the engines in the Clios then it could be slightly less than claimed.
They weigh near enough the same and have very similar power, the Megane has more torque but the Civic has a wider power band.

However you put a tilt on it, they will always be near enough neck and neck, putting 'mulitple car lengths ' between you will again be down to the driver, just like it probably was when I pulled past a Megane. In the corners it will again be even more down to the driver. Compare against the CW edition with the LSD and I would put good money on the Civic being quicker.

And just to clarify it isn't just me claiming that the Civic is the fastest hatch in the world or anything silly. My friend has a 240bhp Astra Vxr which I have driven a lot, in a straight line we are very even until 100mph then he does pull away. In the bends it doesn't inspire confidence at all, grips well but that's it.

Whichever way you put it, they will be too close to separate by the average driver. However, sit inside both, drive both and the Civic IMO is the better proposition. Better engine, better noise, better gearchange, better seating position, and there will be more. I've owned one and driven the other and that is my experience. Drive both I think you'll agree with me

[Feirny]

billy939 said:

Yeah that was me and I can assure it certainly wasn't bullst

I'm not discounting that in some circumstances the Megane could be quicker, but in reality it will come down to the driver.
Most FN2s once dyno'd run closer to 210bhp and although I'm unsure how reliable the 226bhp claimed by Renault is, if it is anything like the engines in the Clios then it could be slightly less than claimed.
They weigh near enough the same and have very similar power, the Megane has more torque but the Civic has a wider power band.

However you put a tilt on it, they will always be near enough neck and neck, putting 'mulitple car lengths ' between you will again be down to the driver, just like it probably was when I pulled past a Megane. In the corners it will again be even more down to the driver. Compare against the CW edition with the LSD and I would put good money on the Civic being quicker.

And just to clarify it isn't just me claiming that the Civic is the fastest hatch in the world or anything silly. My friend has a 240bhp Astra Vxr which I have driven a lot, in a straight line we are very even until 100mph then he does pull away. In the bends it doesn't inspire confidence at all, grips well but that's it.

Whichever way you put it, they will be too close to separate by the average driver. However, sit inside both, drive both and the Civic IMO is the better proposition. Better engine, better noise, better gearchange, better seating position, and there will be more. I've owned one and driven the other and that is my experience. Drive both I think you'll agree with me

The Meganes are usually bang on power wise. Mine's a bit of a freak and it's standard, and keeps pace with some mapped Megs.

[billy939]

Feirny said:

billy939 said:

Yeah that was me and I can assure it certainly wasn't bullst

I'm not discounting that in some circumstances the Megane could be quicker, but in reality it will come down to the driver.
Most FN2s once dyno'd run closer to 210bhp and although I'm unsure how reliable the 226bhp claimed by Renault is, if it is anything like the engines in the Clios then it could be slightly less than claimed.
They weigh near enough the same and have very similar power, the Megane has more torque but the Civic has a wider power band.

However you put a tilt on it, they will always be near enough neck and neck, putting 'mulitple car lengths ' between you will again be down to the driver, just like it probably was when I pulled past a Megane. In the corners it will again be even more down to the driver. Compare against the CW edition with the LSD and I would put good money on the Civic being quicker.

And just to clarify it isn't just me claiming that the Civic is the fastest hatch in the world or anything silly. My friend has a 240bhp Astra Vxr which I have driven a lot, in a straight line we are very even until 100mph then he does pull away. In the bends it doesn't inspire confidence at all, grips well but that's it.

Whichever way you put it, they will be too close to separate by the average driver. However, sit inside both, drive both and the Civic IMO is the better proposition. Better engine, better noise, better gearchange, better seating position, and there will be more. I've owned one and driven the other and that is my experience. Drive both I think you'll agree with me

The Meganes are usually bang on power wise. Mine's a bit of a freak and it's standard, and keeps pace with some mapped Megs.

Then at most there is 26bhp between them, at least 10bhp-15bhp. Nowhere near enough to gain 'multiple car lengths' in most real life circumstances.

Even if the Megane were a few tenths quicker to up to 100mph then it still couldn't match the sense of occasion that the Civic brings.

If you want a Turbo 2ltr hatch from this era you can have; Golf Gti/Megane 230/Astra Vxr/Leon Cupra/Audi S3 and probably more.
If you wanted a 2.5ltr 5 pot then the ST would be best.
The Golf R32 and Bmw 130i are both 6 cyl and N/a but with that comes higher running costs and a lazier nature.

The only car with any really individual difference to it was the Civic Type R, the last of the proper revvy, screamer hot hatches.
It can manage to have the character of an older hot hatch that likes to be thrown about and ragged to death, like a 205/106 Gti, but it can also play along with the cars above that have turbos, yet have no more real power or performance.

Of course it is flawed, sit at 70mph in 6th and you're doing around 3500rpm and you then have to drop 2 gears to overtake comfortably. But from my perspective it covers all basis much better than competitors.

Myself and 2 mates, in an Astra Vxr and a Focus ST MP260 often go out for drives and swap cars etc, and at the end of it they both admit the Civic is not the quickest but is by far the best handling and most fun.
As I have said you will only really know which suits you best after a good drive in all of the choices.

Good luck finding the one that fits for you OP

[HJMS123]

billy939 said:

Yeah that was me and I can assure it certainly wasn't bullst

I'm not discounting that in some circumstances the Megane could be quicker, but in reality it will come down to the driver.
Most FN2s once dyno'd run closer to 210bhp and although I'm unsure how reliable the 226bhp claimed by Renault is, if it is anything like the engines in the Clios then it could be slightly less than claimed.
They weigh near enough the same and have very similar power, the Megane has more torque but the Civic has a wider power band.

However you put a tilt on it, they will always be near enough neck and neck, putting 'mulitple car lengths ' between you will again be down to the driver, just like it probably was when I pulled past a Megane. In the corners it will again be even more down to the driver. Compare against the CW edition with the LSD and I would put good money on the Civic being quicker.

And just to clarify it isn't just me claiming that the Civic is the fastest hatch in the world or anything silly. My friend has a 240bhp Astra Vxr which I have driven a lot, in a straight line we are very even until 100mph then he does pull away. In the bends it doesn't inspire confidence at all, grips well but that's it.

Whichever way you put it, they will be too close to separate by the average driver. However, sit inside both, drive both and the Civic IMO is the better proposition. Better engine, better noise, better gearchange, better seating position, and there will be more. I've owned one and driven the other and that is my experience. Drive both I think you'll agree with me

I love Type R's for what they are ... a rare breed of hot hatch and I will have one before they die out but I still disagree with your opinion on the civic being quicker or as quick. Still think a R26 would leave a FN2 with lsd for dead especially on a track day. Driver dependant obviously ....

OP drive both and see what you prefer, the meg will handle much better and power is easier to access but you may prefer the interior on the civic or find the engine has more character

[billy939]

HJMS123 said:

billy939 said:

Yeah that was me and I can assure it certainly wasn't bullst

I'm not discounting that in some circumstances the Megane could be quicker, but in reality it will come down to the driver.
Most FN2s once dyno'd run closer to 210bhp and although I'm unsure how reliable the 226bhp claimed by Renault is, if it is anything like the engines in the Clios then it could be slightly less than claimed.
They weigh near enough the same and have very similar power, the Megane has more torque but the Civic has a wider power band.

However you put a tilt on it, they will always be near enough neck and neck, putting 'mulitple car lengths ' between you will again be down to the driver, just like it probably was when I pulled past a Megane. In the corners it will again be even more down to the driver. Compare against the CW edition with the LSD and I would put good money on the Civic being quicker.

And just to clarify it isn't just me claiming that the Civic is the fastest hatch in the world or anything silly. My friend has a 240bhp Astra Vxr which I have driven a lot, in a straight line we are very even until 100mph then he does pull away. In the bends it doesn't inspire confidence at all, grips well but that's it.

Whichever way you put it, they will be too close to separate by the average driver. However, sit inside both, drive both and the Civic IMO is the better proposition. Better engine, better noise, better gearchange, better seating position, and there will be more. I've owned one and driven the other and that is my experience. Drive both I think you'll agree with me

I love Type R's for what they are ... a rare breed of hot hatch and I will have one before they die out but I still disagree with your opinion on the civic being quicker or as quick. Still think a R26 would leave a FN2 with lsd for dead especially on a track day. Driver dependant obviously ....

OP drive both and see what you prefer, the meg will handle much better and power is easier to access but you may prefer the interior on the civic or find the engine has more character

We will have to agree to disagree, I can't prove to you that my Civic was quicker than the R26 and you can't prove the opposite.

However if you can afford an FD2 then that should be your choice. Much quicker and more focused than both, and will hold its value better than most other cars it compares against.

[Level 7 Boss]

sinbad666 said:

As I say your splitting hairs, there just as good as each other but different. I found the FN2 firmer, sharper, with better steering feel, as for the megane i don't know if it was but I felt it had variable assistance which often felt over assisted and numbed the steering feel, however it was slightly better balanced up until 9/10ths and then it went abit squidgy and understeered and the diff was good out of the bends. ( this is where I felt the dc5 excelled) The dampers on the megane where good when the roads where smooth but got abit clunky on B roads, the civic was almost as good on firm roads and on B roads I found it would thud (over damped) but felt it also had a sense of quality about it as it never got unsettled, stiffer chassis maybe.
What I would say is that if your planning any sort of tuning the civic will be loads more fun! Especially if you already like the NA delivery. I modified most my hondas, had both 260bhp NA DC5 and 320bhp supercharged DC5 and I tuned my megane to 265bhp+ at RSTuning and still have access to a remapped megane 225 to compare. I always felt that even with basic breathing Mods the K20 engine comes alive, you feel and hear VTEC more and throttle response sharpens up loads. In the megane It always felt quicker than it actually was. Which could be a good or bad thing depending on your view. Also going from a DC5 to a bmw 130i I didn't notice too much difference in build except the DC5 felt more lightweight but it was an even bigger shock from the BMW to megane in the quality, plastics, electronics, even the sound of the doors closing. Don't get me wrong I think either choice would be good, I loved my megane, but I loved my hondas more, they always seemed to be more than the sum of there parts.

Not sure about modding an NA car unless you're either super or turbo charging. I have a 350z only with an exhaust and air filter. But even with decats and a remap you're only looking at +10-15 bhp and torgue.

[sinbad666]

Youre maybe not too familiar with the K20 in that case as it's much more responsive to modifying than the VQ in the 350z. 240bhp-260bhp is quite common for intake exhaust and remap.
As you are probably aware the electronics in the Zed compensate for any basic breathing mods unless you have it remapped, but the intake and the exhaust on the 350z is already well optimised unlike the cast iron stuff the put on the civic. Aside from the plenum on the 350z as you are probably aware is one of few parts that can be improved as can the civics with the K24 or later K20 inlet manifold. I used to have a modified 350z many years ago and was part of the forum when it was originally founded by Val and Co.

As for the megane and civic speed wise there practically identical, the megane will be better round town and maybe B roads purely down to the torque it has but the civic will more than hold its own on track or a-roads. I know as my best friend had a FN2 at the same time as I had my megane and often swapped.

My 350



My megane



NA DC5



Supercharged

[911p]

Interesting comments from all, thanks. I have to say I am leaning towards the Civic now, as to be honest I thought the R26 would be almost in a different league performance-wise. The Civic does seem to respond better to mods than I thought it would being an N/A car, with an exhaust, intake and map giving 10% plus extra power, although I'm not sure I'd bother to be honest!

I've been doing some research on using the Type R for track work and there are some concerns over oil starvation, has anybody had any issues with the stock set up? A baffled sump and FD2 oil pump/balancer shaft delete runs into about £800 fitted, which is quite hefty considering it's something you won't feel when driving the car.

[Antics]

billy939 said:

We will have to agree to disagree, I can't prove to you that my Civic was quicker than the R26 and you can't prove the opposite.

However if you can afford an FD2 then that should be your choice. Much quicker and more focused than both, and will hold its value better than most other cars it compares against.

I haven't driven either but I found the following which surely points to the R26 being a fair bit quicker than the Civic around a track, and in a straight line:

Track Civic Type-R | Megane R26.R
Top Gear Track 1:33.50 | 1:28.10
Tsukuba 1:12.22 | 1:07.87
Bruntingthorpe 1:26.97 | 1:20.70
Bedford Autodrome West Circuit (post 06/2008) 1:34.90 | 1:27.82
Raceland 0:58.33 | 0:55.34
Circuit de Nevers Magny-Cours Club 1:32.90 | 1:27.34

Technical data

Specs
Max speed 235 kph | 237 kph
0 - 100 kph 6.8 s | 6.0 s
0 - 100 mph 15.9 s | 14.9 s
1/4 mile 14.9 s | 14.5 s
1/8 mile (est) 10.2 s @ 80 mph | 9.6 s @ 81 mph
Power/weight ratio 146 bhp/tonne | 181 bhp/tonne

[billy939]

Antics said:

billy939 said:

We will have to agree to disagree, I can't prove to you that my Civic was quicker than the R26 and you can't prove the opposite.

However if you can afford an FD2 then that should be your choice. Much quicker and more focused than both, and will hold its value better than most other cars it compares against.

I haven't driven either but I found the following which surely points to the R26 being a fair bit quicker than the Civic around a track, and in a straight line:

Track Civic Type-R | Megane R26.R
Top Gear Track 1:33.50 | 1:28.10
Tsukuba 1:12.22 | 1:07.87
Bruntingthorpe 1:26.97 | 1:20.70
Bedford Autodrome West Circuit (post 06/2008) 1:34.90 | 1:27.82
Raceland 0:58.33 | 0:55.34
Circuit de Nevers Magny-Cours Club 1:32.90 | 1:27.34

Technical data

Specs
Max speed 235 kph | 237 kph
0 - 100 kph 6.8 s | 6.0 s
0 - 100 mph 15.9 s | 14.9 s
1/4 mile 14.9 s | 14.5 s
1/8 mile (est) 10.2 s @ 80 mph | 9.6 s @ 81 mph
Power/weight ratio 146 bhp/tonne | 181 bhp/tonne

That data is from fastest laps.com anyone can update that website.
Drive both and you will realise and most of all a Megane can never sound as good as a K20 engined Honda

[MRobbins1987]

I've got an FN2 and its a decent reliable car but if your taking one on track be prepared to spend... Brakes 1k plus, Fd2 oil pump and flashpro 1.2k, LSD £900, suspension is useless so coilovers and geo set up 1k... As standard it's no driver's car, understeers badly, steering feel is none existent, ride is terrible, comparisons to 205's are ridiculous... The only things going for it are engine and gearbox, as standard the Megane will be far better on track and more engaging in the corners...

Have you considered a 200 cup?

Edited by MRobbins1987 on Friday 16th January 23:24

[Antics]

billy939 said:

That data is from fastest laps.com anyone can update that website.
Drive both and you will realise and most of all a Megane can never sound as good as a K20 engined Honda

Erm ok. See above response from a fellow FN2 driver then, who admits the R26 is faster and far better on a track.

I still prefer the looks of the Type-R though!

[RobM77]

My wife's got an immaculate low mileage FN2 and it's a great car, but the only thing that winds us both up is the sensitivity of the controls at the top of their travel. Honda have probably done it to make the car seem sporty, but for us it's the only mar on an otherwise perfect grown up hot hatch. I'm afraid I haven't tried the Renault, but it goes without saying that it won't be engineered like a Honda. With either of these cars, do be patient and find a good one - we looked at a few dogs before we found the one we bought; plenty had been thoroughly abused and you could tell from driving them.

[911p]

Antics said:

Specs

R26R is significantly faster, but would have been on R888 tyres. I've heard the Civic's geo from the factory is pretty atrocious, so sort that as well as some good tyres and it would close the gap, although I'd bet on the standard R26 still being quicker to be honest.

The acceleration figures surprised me the most however. If you look at 60 to 100mph times, or 1/8 to 1/4 mile times (once both cars are off the line) they're very even. The R26R is 115kg lighter than the standard R26 as well.

60-100mph; Civic 9.1 | Megane 8.9
1/8-1/4 mile; Civic 4.7 | Megane 4.9

Top speeds seem to confirm they're close once rolling, makes me wonder how the Type R would do from a standing start given an LSD.

MRobbins1987 said:

Brakes 1k plus, Fd2 oil pump and flashpro 1.2k, LSD £900, suspension is useless so coilovers and geo set up 1k...

You don't sound like a great fan of the FN2

This is the problem, to make them track ready they do seem to need some money spending on them, whereas the Megane is ready out of the box. Saying that, my uncle has an FN2 which we took to Donington recently. That's completely standard other than sticky AD08R tyres, and the brakes were smoking in the pits but never faded to the point the wheels couldn't be locked.

Does the FD2 oil pump need a flashpro to go with it? Or is the standard ECU fine with it? As it stands I've worked it out to be about £2k to be spent on the car; decent pads, fluid and hoses, new springs and geo, LSD, baffled sump and FD2 oil pump. I could fit all of the parts myself other than the LSD - £2k is still quite a sum though!

[MRobbins1987]

I'm sure tdi north are tuning without flashpro now but it's still about 500 quid, I'm not sure anywhere else can...

It's not that the fn2 is a bad car, in a lot of ways it will be superior to the Renault but as a driver's car/occasional track car as standard the Renault will be better... Depends if you want to chuck a considerable amount of money on mods...

[amusingduck]

Antics said:

I haven't driven either but I found the following which surely points to the R26 being a fair bit quicker than the Civic around a track, and in a straight line:

Track Civic Type-R | Megane R26.R
Top Gear Track 1:33.50 | 1:28.10
Tsukuba 1:12.22 | 1:07.87
Bruntingthorpe 1:26.97 | 1:20.70
Bedford Autodrome West Circuit (post 06/2008) 1:34.90 | 1:27.82
Raceland 0:58.33 | 0:55.34
Circuit de Nevers Magny-Cours Club 1:32.90 | 1:27.34

Technical data

Specs
Max speed 235 kph | 237 kph
0 - 100 kph 6.8 s | 6.0 s
0 - 100 mph 15.9 s | 14.9 s
1/4 mile 14.9 s | 14.5 s
1/8 mile (est) 10.2 s @ 80 mph | 9.6 s @ 81 mph
Power/weight ratio 146 bhp/tonne | 181 bhp/tonne

That is an R26.R - not a regular R26.

[HJMS123]

amusingduck said:

That is an R26.R - not a regular R26.

Track Civic Type-R Megane Sport F1-Team R26
Top Gear Track 1:33.50 1:30.60
Hockenheim Short 1:21.30 1:18.60
Bedford Autodrome West Circuit (2004 - 06/2008) 1:41.45 d 1:36.05 d
Oschersleben 1:55.78 1:51.78
Balocco 3:10.70 2:59.60
Bruntingthorpe 1:26.97 1:22.20
Anglesey National 1:09.40 1:08.20
Killarney 1:31.81 1:31.57
Circuit de Nevers Magny-Cours Club 1:32.90 1:28.65
Kyalami 2:14.80 2:11.00
Wakefield Park 1:14.00 1:11.90

Summary
Discipline Civic Type-R Megane Sport F1-Team R26
Track Performance 0 points 212 points
Straight line speed 151 points 158 points
Total 151 370

The verdict
Renault Megane Sport F1-Team R26 is noticeably faster.


The Renault is still comfortably quicker around a track. 0-60 figures are pretty useless especially given the Megane is a turbo FWD car so 1st and second are useless in a straight line unless bone dry due to the amount of torque. OP wanted the best out of the box package for handling and it's the meg ... comfortably. Forget about all this geo stuff as you can still do all this to the R26 to improve it's handling further. As I argued earlier in the thread the difference between power in-gear is really noticeable! I'm not arguing about which is the better car but I am saying the R26 handles much better and is the quicker car. There are other personal factors such a power delivery, looks, interior and sound which will decide which of the two cars you find is better suited to you.

[billy939]

HJMS123 said:

amusingduck said:

That is an R26.R - not a regular R26.

Track Civic Type-R Megane Sport F1-Team R26
Top Gear Track 1:33.50 1:30.60
Hockenheim Short 1:21.30 1:18.60
Bedford Autodrome West Circuit (2004 - 06/2008) 1:41.45 d 1:36.05 d
Oschersleben 1:55.78 1:51.78
Balocco 3:10.70 2:59.60
Bruntingthorpe 1:26.97 1:22.20
Anglesey National 1:09.40 1:08.20
Killarney 1:31.81 1:31.57
Circuit de Nevers Magny-Cours Club 1:32.90 1:28.65
Kyalami 2:14.80 2:11.00
Wakefield Park 1:14.00 1:11.90

Summary
Discipline Civic Type-R Megane Sport F1-Team R26
Track Performance 0 points 212 points
Straight line speed 151 points 158 points
Total 151 370

The verdict
Renault Megane Sport F1-Team R26 is noticeably faster.


The Renault is still comfortably quicker around a track. 0-60 figures are pretty useless especially given the Megane is a turbo FWD car so 1st and second are useless in a straight line unless bone dry due to the amount of torque. OP wanted the best out of the box package for handling and it's the meg ... comfortably. Forget about all this geo stuff as you can still do all this to the R26 to improve it's handling further. As I argued earlier in the thread the difference between power in-gear is really noticeable! I'm not arguing about which is the better car but I am saying the R26 handles much better and is the quicker car. There are other personal factors such a power delivery, looks, interior and sound which will decide which of the two cars you find is better suited to you.

I have to say your love for your Megane is admirable. Clearly happy with your choice which is good. You're nearly selling the idea to me to get one
Both are clearly good hot hatches with their strong and weak points. Either choice would be great on track and road and I bloody hope the OP reports back with what he finally chooses!