VW finance voluntary termination - excess mileage charge!?
Discussion
daemon said:
Just for the record, but if they try this with anyone else, tell them to go f
k themselves.
A VT terminates to contract. Its no longer a contract. Its an ex contract. Therefore they cannot enforce contract terms.
VT is a Consumer Credit act thing so it doesn't matter what's in the contract / T's & C's. However I'm not aware that the excess mileage point has ever been fully tested. I guess the lease company could sue you in the small claims court - the results there can be almost random.k themselves.A VT terminates to contract. Its no longer a contract. Its an ex contract. Therefore they cannot enforce contract terms.
Sheepshanks said:
daemon said:
Just for the record, but if they try this with anyone else, tell them to go fk themselves.
A VT terminates to contract. Its no longer a contract. Its an ex contract. Therefore they cannot enforce contract terms.
VT is a Consumer Credit act thing so it doesn't matter what's in the contract / T's & C's. However I'm not aware that the excess mileage point has ever been fully tested. I guess the lease company could sue you in the small claims court - the results there can be almost random.k themselves.A VT terminates to contract. Its no longer a contract. Its an ex contract. Therefore they cannot enforce contract terms.
Its never been fully tested because the finance companies know they cant win it.
Personally, i wouldnt go in to a PCP deal with my only exit strategy being a VT, and likewise i wouldnt want to be trying to VT something thats been to the moon and back but has a 5K pa agreement, but i wouldnt have any particular fear of handing back a car with reasonably more miles than had been agreed in the contract
funkyrobot said:
BMW currently trying this on with my brother. He handed back a 3 series he has had on PCP for years. Had a letter today saying they want £180 off him for mileage charges.
I've told him to check his agreement, but also to tell them they can't have the money.
Did he sign any sort of paperwork?I've told him to check his agreement, but also to tell them they can't have the money.
daemon said:
funkyrobot said:
BMW currently trying this on with my brother. He handed back a 3 series he has had on PCP for years. Had a letter today saying they want £180 off him for mileage charges.
I've told him to check his agreement, but also to tell them they can't have the money.
Did he sign any sort of paperwork?I've told him to check his agreement, but also to tell them they can't have the money.
I'm seeing him tomorrow so I'll see what he has to show me then.
Thanks.
I have got some info from my brother. It's a little confusing, but it looks like he has paid just over half the amount remaining, yet BMW are still chasing for excess mileage charges.
His initial contract was for £20,819.35. Halve this and you get £10,409.68 (rounded up). Therefore, surely if he has paid more than this, he is allowed to VT?
He originally took the product on in April 2014 with a first payment of £466.33. The contract was then a further 47 payments of £292.33.
He had the following summary with his termination notice. Unless I'm missing something, does it look like they have failed to include his final £65.46 payment in their sums? They are stating he owes £10,475.13. However, when adding up the payments properly, it's £10409.67. This makes it below the original 50% of £10,409.68.
He told me he had to pay the £60 to get it below 50%.
Also, in his letter (below), there is some odd wording about termination and the consumer credit act:
Edit to add actual mileage charge sheet:
Thanks.
Another edit. Stuff about termination:
In relation to his actual contract wording about mileage charges, it says the below:
'The maximum total mileage is 80833 miles. Maximum annual mileage is 10000. Mileage on delivery of 40000 miles is included in the maximum total mileage.
An excess mileage charge for depreciation will be payable at 5.40 pence for each mile covered in excess of the maximum total mileage. If you return the vehicle at the end of the agreement.
If you end the agreement early (see termination); the maxiumum total mileage will apply in proportion to the reduced period of hire and your obligation to pay any excess mileage charges will accrue immediately prior to termination. Accordingly if the vehicle's mileage exceeds the adjusted maximum total mileage, you will have to pay the excess mileage charge for depreciation for each mile covered in excess of the adjusted maximum total mileage.'
Doesn't the bit about 'nothing more to pay' trump this though?
Thanks.
His initial contract was for £20,819.35. Halve this and you get £10,409.68 (rounded up). Therefore, surely if he has paid more than this, he is allowed to VT?
He originally took the product on in April 2014 with a first payment of £466.33. The contract was then a further 47 payments of £292.33.
He had the following summary with his termination notice. Unless I'm missing something, does it look like they have failed to include his final £65.46 payment in their sums? They are stating he owes £10,475.13. However, when adding up the payments properly, it's £10409.67. This makes it below the original 50% of £10,409.68.
He told me he had to pay the £60 to get it below 50%.
Also, in his letter (below), there is some odd wording about termination and the consumer credit act:
Edit to add actual mileage charge sheet:
Thanks.
Another edit. Stuff about termination:
In relation to his actual contract wording about mileage charges, it says the below:
'The maximum total mileage is 80833 miles. Maximum annual mileage is 10000. Mileage on delivery of 40000 miles is included in the maximum total mileage.
An excess mileage charge for depreciation will be payable at 5.40 pence for each mile covered in excess of the maximum total mileage. If you return the vehicle at the end of the agreement.
If you end the agreement early (see termination); the maxiumum total mileage will apply in proportion to the reduced period of hire and your obligation to pay any excess mileage charges will accrue immediately prior to termination. Accordingly if the vehicle's mileage exceeds the adjusted maximum total mileage, you will have to pay the excess mileage charge for depreciation for each mile covered in excess of the adjusted maximum total mileage.'
Doesn't the bit about 'nothing more to pay' trump this though?
Thanks.
Edited by funkyrobot on Monday 15th May 09:42
Why not sell the car and pay off the outstanding finance when sold. By this point the car is probably worth more than what you owe.
Or if you are buying another car, trade it in. They are bound to want to do a deal and will offer you more than the settlement fee.
This is what I have always done with my PCPs
Or if you are buying another car, trade it in. They are bound to want to do a deal and will offer you more than the settlement fee.
This is what I have always done with my PCPs
finnie said:
Why not sell the car and pay off the outstanding finance when sold. By this point the car is probably worth more than what you owe.
Or if you are buying another car, trade it in. They are bound to want to do a deal and will offer you more than the settlement fee.
This is what I have always done with my PCPs
Not always a good move, i've done this in the past too, and you end up just snowballing your debt.. the dealer always wins!Or if you are buying another car, trade it in. They are bound to want to do a deal and will offer you more than the settlement fee.
This is what I have always done with my PCPs
I went to BMW last year and the salesman actually told me that it's not a good move and to keep what i've got for another year!
I don't understand this whole Excess milage charge and why people seem to think they can just not pay it.
When you signed for the car, you agreed that you would not exceed the agreed milage, if you had the car back early, they are entitled to pro rata it and charge you the difference.
AllyBassman said:
I don't understand this whole Excess milage charge and why people seem to think they can just not pay it. When you signed for the car, you agreed that you would not exceed the agreed milage, if you had the car back early, they are entitled to pro rata it and charge you the difference.
There is a term in every contract, which takes precedence over anything you *may* have agreed, that says that you can't be held liable for more than the return of the goods as supplied (subject to fair wear and tear), plus half the total payments (including any interest).If there is any liability post VT, it's because the excess mileage amounts to a deduction beyond fair wear and tear. I don't think the finance company's argument is fanciful (because an extra 100k miles will clearly have more of an effect on the car's value than a scratched wheel trim), but neither is the claim that you can't be held liable for anything beyond the statutory amount, regardless of mileage (because that's what the letter of the law says).
If that's the case, it's highly likely that the lower mileage option would work out more expenisve than using the full mileage allowance.
AllyBassman said:
I don't understand this whole Excess milage charge and why people seem to think they can just not pay it.
When you signed for the car, you agreed that you would not exceed the agreed milage, if you had the car back early, they are entitled to pro rata it and charge you the difference.
Even if a contact was drawn up and agreed to by two parties in good faith, it doesn't guarantee that the contract is enforceable. There are legal restrictions on the terms that are enforceable. The idea is usually to protect consumers from entering into obligations that they hadn't properly understood. If you buy insurance, you get a "cooling off" period during which time you can change your mind and cancel the policy. You could sign a contact that says you'll waive that right to a coolling off period in return for a discount on the policy, but it wouldn't be enforceable because you can't waive that right even if you want to.When you signed for the car, you agreed that you would not exceed the agreed milage, if you had the car back early, they are entitled to pro rata it and charge you the difference.
ATG said:
AllyBassman said:
I don't understand this whole Excess milage charge and why people seem to think they can just not pay it.
When you signed for the car, you agreed that you would not exceed the agreed milage, if you had the car back early, they are entitled to pro rata it and charge you the difference.
Even if a contact was drawn up and agreed to by two parties in good faith, it doesn't guarantee that the contract is enforceable. There are legal restrictions on the terms that are enforceable. The idea is usually to protect consumers from entering into obligations that they hadn't properly understood. If you buy insurance, you get a "cooling off" period during which time you can change your mind and cancel the policy. You could sign a contact that says you'll waive that right to a coolling off period in return for a discount on the policy, but it wouldn't be enforceable because you can't waive that right even if you want to.When you signed for the car, you agreed that you would not exceed the agreed milage, if you had the car back early, they are entitled to pro rata it and charge you the difference.
On the mileage, they may think that as long as they didn't exceed the contract mileage they'd be OK.
NHughes89 said:
Hi, new to this site, I have a vw golf and have paid over 50% of the car, however I have not had the car serviced can I still VT the car?
I am 15k over on mileage so expecting them to have an issue with that.
Any advice would be appreciated
What do your terms and conditions say? Usually something like taking satisfactory care of the goods - that may imply serviced correctly. Might be an idea to service it first before hand back?I am 15k over on mileage so expecting them to have an issue with that.
Any advice would be appreciated
Isn't there a standard charge for missing a service (even within a certain time/mileage range), and it depends whether that is lower than actually having the service done?
wrt excess miles on handing back early, I know it's a different contract, but when I settled my lease slightly early the VW droid did reiterate that the mileage allowance would be pro-rata.
wrt excess miles on handing back early, I know it's a different contract, but when I settled my lease slightly early the VW droid did reiterate that the mileage allowance would be pro-rata.
Edited by cootuk on Saturday 16th September 12:45
valiant said:
NHughes89 said:
Hi, new to this site, I have a vw golf and have paid over 50% of the car, however I have not had the car serviced can I still VT the car?
I am 15k over on mileage so expecting them to have an issue with that.
Any advice would be appreciated
What do your terms and conditions say? Usually something like taking satisfactory care of the goods - that may imply serviced correctly. Might be an idea to service it first before hand back?I am 15k over on mileage so expecting them to have an issue with that.
Any advice would be appreciated
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