Whose fault is it if a cyclist "T-bones" you at a T-junction
Discussion
I turned in to a T-junction accross a lane of standing traffic this morning. Despite the fact that I was leaning forward in my seat looking down the lane of traffic of in order to try to avoid this exact situation, I still had a reasonably near miss with a cyclist. We both stopped in time. As you can see, there is no cycle lane and everyone on the scene was driving a Mitsubishi FTO.
If I hadn't been looking for him and we'd colided, would it have been my fault? Or is it his fault for filtering through a junction without due care? Does it make a difference if there is a cycle lane? If the car you're turning in front of is actually an HGV, and you can't see past it at all, should you refuse to turn?
If I hadn't been looking for him and we'd colided, would it have been my fault? Or is it his fault for filtering through a junction without due care? Does it make a difference if there is a cycle lane? If the car you're turning in front of is actually an HGV, and you can't see past it at all, should you refuse to turn?
You're crossing his path.. highway code says:
"Turning right
Rule 179
Well before you turn right you should
•use your mirrors to make sure you know the position and movement of traffic behind you
•give a right-turn signal
•take up a position just left of the middle of the road or in the space marked for traffic turning right
•leave room for other vehicles to pass on the left, if possible.
Rule 180
Wait until there is a safe gap between you and any oncoming vehicle. Watch out for cyclists, motorcyclists, pedestrians and other road users. "
However as a cyclist I never filter down the nearside for this reason, also people turning left never look to see if anything is coming up the inside, and the risk of getting doored. I'd filter down the offside.
"Turning right
Rule 179
Well before you turn right you should
•use your mirrors to make sure you know the position and movement of traffic behind you
•give a right-turn signal
•take up a position just left of the middle of the road or in the space marked for traffic turning right
•leave room for other vehicles to pass on the left, if possible.
Rule 180
Wait until there is a safe gap between you and any oncoming vehicle. Watch out for cyclists, motorcyclists, pedestrians and other road users. "
However as a cyclist I never filter down the nearside for this reason, also people turning left never look to see if anything is coming up the inside, and the risk of getting doored. I'd filter down the offside.
SantaBarbara said:
99dndd said:
I'd go with the person turning right, it's your responsibility to make sure it's clear.
I agree completely so the driver should sit and wait forever because he can't see?
or cyclist responsible for his own safety.
If I had exactly this accident on my motorbike I would entirely judge myself as the idiot and wouldn't even claim against the drivers insurance should it be deemed a 50/50.
I have the same scenario every single day, inside and outside of the filtering traffic - and I never go faster than I can stop (so far)
or cyclist responsible for his own safety.
If I had exactly this accident on my motorbike I would entirely judge myself as the idiot and wouldn't even claim against the drivers insurance should it be deemed a 50/50.
I have the same scenario every single day, inside and outside of the filtering traffic - and I never go faster than I can stop (so far)
Bennet said:
I turned in to a T-junction accross a lane of standing traffic this morning. Despite the fact that I was leaning forward in my seat looking down the lane of traffic of in order to try to avoid this exact situation, I still had a reasonably near miss with a cyclist. We both stopped in time. As you can see, there is no cycle lane and everyone on the scene was driving a Mitsubishi FTO.
If I hadn't been looking for him and we'd colided, would it have been my fault? Or is it his fault for filtering through a junction without due care? Does it make a difference if there is a cycle lane? If the car you're turning in front of is actually an HGV, and you can't see past it at all, should you refuse to turn?
Yours. You turned across his lane of traffic. Which you shouldn't have done if it wasn't clear.If I hadn't been looking for him and we'd colided, would it have been my fault? Or is it his fault for filtering through a junction without due care? Does it make a difference if there is a cycle lane? If the car you're turning in front of is actually an HGV, and you can't see past it at all, should you refuse to turn?
There is zero doubt in my mind that this is correct.
RacerMDR said:
so the driver should sit and wait forever because he can't see?
or cyclist responsible for his own safety.
If I had exactly this accident on my motorbike I would entirely judge myself as the idiot and wouldn't even claim against the drivers insurance should it be deemed a 50/50.
I have the same scenario every single day, inside and outside of the filtering traffic - and I never go faster than I can stop (so far)
He should go slowly until he can see. or cyclist responsible for his own safety.
If I had exactly this accident on my motorbike I would entirely judge myself as the idiot and wouldn't even claim against the drivers insurance should it be deemed a 50/50.
I have the same scenario every single day, inside and outside of the filtering traffic - and I never go faster than I can stop (so far)
Integroo said:
RacerMDR said:
so the driver should sit and wait forever because he can't see?
or cyclist responsible for his own safety.
If I had exactly this accident on my motorbike I would entirely judge myself as the idiot and wouldn't even claim against the drivers insurance should it be deemed a 50/50.
I have the same scenario every single day, inside and outside of the filtering traffic - and I never go faster than I can stop (so far)
He should go slowly until he can see. or cyclist responsible for his own safety.
If I had exactly this accident on my motorbike I would entirely judge myself as the idiot and wouldn't even claim against the drivers insurance should it be deemed a 50/50.
I have the same scenario every single day, inside and outside of the filtering traffic - and I never go faster than I can stop (so far)
hence - it's 50/50 responsibility ............but the responsibility is on the vulnerable party to not get dead.
If a cyclist hit my car in this scenario I would be going after money for the damage
Of course such is the ineptitude of road planners that many cycle lane type setups make this a very common risk. You can argue that a cyclist shouldn't be cycling down the inside of a row of stationary traffic but you can hardly argue that they shouldn't be cycling down a cycle lane.
It regularly happens to me with motorcylists - I will be flashed or waved across by a car driver only for me to notice a motorcycle at the last second. it's exacerbated as their closing speed is far higher than a bicycle - they either weren't paying attention or going at an inappropriate speed. I realise the blame would probably still be at my door though.
lufbramatt said:
You're crossing his path.. highway code says:
"Turning right
Rule 179
Well before you turn right you should
•use your mirrors to make sure you know the position and movement of traffic behind you
•give a right-turn signal
•take up a position just left of the middle of the road or in the space marked for traffic turning right
•leave room for other vehicles to pass on the left, if possible.
Rule 180
Wait until there is a safe gap between you and any oncoming vehicle. Watch out for cyclists, motorcyclists, pedestrians and other road users. "
However as a cyclist I never filter down the nearside for this reason, also people turning left never look to see if anything is coming up the inside, and the risk of getting doored. I'd filter down the offside.
Fixed that for you "Turning right
Rule 179
Well before you turn right you should
•use your mirrors to make sure you know the position and movement of traffic behind you
•give a right-turn signal
•take up a position just left of the middle of the road or in the space marked for traffic turning right
•leave room for other vehicles to pass on the left, if possible.
Rule 180
Wait until there is a safe gap between you and any oncoming vehicle. Watch out for cyclists, motorcyclists, pedestrians and other road users. "
However as a cyclist I never filter down the nearside for this reason, also people turning left never look to see if anything is coming up the inside, and the risk of getting doored. I'd filter down the offside.
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