Trying to think up a sub 1250kg track car option....

Trying to think up a sub 1250kg track car option....

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300bhp/ton

41,030 posts

189 months

Friday 17th November 2017
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C70R said:
laugh
Absolutely useless advice, as ever. Not only are they almost never offered for sale, but the only one I could find for sale was £36k. laugh
Almost surprised you didn't suggest a Foxbody Mustang.
Didn’t realise they were that much. And I did say I didn’t know values of them. No needed to be a tt about it though.

TroubledSoul

Original Poster:

4,589 posts

193 months

Friday 17th November 2017
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Cheers folks. Have to admit the idea of a classic Sti Type-RA appeals a lot, as does the idea of a turbocharged MX5. Also the turboed MR2.

I'm going to sit on this a bit and weigh up whether I've got it in me to do a shed load of work again that I've only recently completed on the current track car. If I decide the answer is no, I'll park this until next winter. If I decide yes let's do it, then I'll make a choice and go full steam ahead.


C70R

17,596 posts

103 months

Friday 17th November 2017
quotequote all
300bhp/ton said:
C70R said:
laugh
Absolutely useless advice, as ever. Not only are they almost never offered for sale, but the only one I could find for sale was £36k. laugh
Almost surprised you didn't suggest a Foxbody Mustang.
Didn’t realise they were that much. And I did say I didn’t know values of them. No needed to be a tt about it though.
You are renowned for giving utterly useless, 'left-field' advice. I was only demonstrating that, by recommending some unobtainium at over 7x the OP's original budget, you're staying true to form. laugh

nitrodave

1,262 posts

137 months

Friday 17th November 2017
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MK2 MR2 Turbo - there's a lovely white one on ebay right now! wink

designforlife

3,734 posts

162 months

Friday 17th November 2017
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Integra DC2 or DC5 if you fancy FWD?

Both sub 1200kg and handle brilliantly.

designforlife

3,734 posts

162 months

Friday 17th November 2017
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Also i think my old supercharged mk2 mx5 is up for sale for around £5k...wouldn't be a bad shout, just needs a reduction pulley and another map and it'll be running circa 200bhp.

designforlife

3,734 posts

162 months

Friday 17th November 2017
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I also know of a 500bhp+ DC2 that is pretty much immaculate, if you can run stuff modified to that extent...think the guy wants around £10k for it.

james_gt3rs

4,816 posts

190 months

Friday 17th November 2017
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Boxster? You'll need to strip out a fair amount but 1250kg achievable.

BrettMRC

4,033 posts

159 months

Friday 17th November 2017
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A prepped 1st gen Rx7 will be well under the weight limit and plenty of scope for power. (only about 1100kg wet as stock)

Handling is pretty sweet too.

Issue will be finding one that isn't a basket case for sensible money - but they do still come up.

Humour

297 posts

150 months

Friday 17th November 2017
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Based on the OP budget, viewed realistically every option bar a pre-modded turbo MR2 or MX5 will far exceed the budget once the additional prep cost is added beyond the purchase price.

Unless the OP is able to score a fully prepped hill climber ready to go (have seen some this year but requires patience), one has to factor additional prep costs which mount quickly especially when a bigger/quicker/more exotic the choice of car.

Having done it already im sure the OP knows what im talking about, hence the view of reflection.

Best value will always be buying into someone elses hard work, even if it needs a tidy up. imo.

Earlier in the year I stumbled onto a e36 328 hill climb prepped and another MX5 turbo also prepped for the same job. Both were north of 5K with cage etc.

Wiggle5

19 posts

77 months

Saturday 18th November 2017
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BrettMRC said:
A prepped 1st gen Rx7 will be well under the weight limit and plenty of scope for power. (only about 1100kg wet as stock)

Handling is pretty sweet too.

Issue will be finding one that isn't a basket case for sensible money - but they do still come up.
You could buy a RX8 for as little as £500 1350kg stock weight 200ish BHP but plenty of options with £5k+ to spend very good handling, LSD as standard etc

and due to 1.3 engine (msa has a multiplier though) it fits quite competitively in the categories I believe.

Scobblelotcher

1,724 posts

111 months

Saturday 18th November 2017
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I think the answer is an Impreza STi-RA, superb performance out of the box and with some mods we know it will be a great track/hill climb car.

I had a 370bhp classic and it was significantly quicker than a friends 360 new age thanks to its weight (in a straight line).

Parts are very easy to come by and it’s a good platform to work from.

HedgeyGedgey

1,281 posts

93 months

Saturday 18th November 2017
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I cannot see how a turbo mx5 will be quicker than a classic Subaru with what 370ish bhp? The weight isn't that much of a difference, 940kgs for the mx5 vs 1170kgs for the RA. Now if you use the math of 100kgs is equal to 22bhp in a straight line, the mx5 would need close to 340bhp to beat the RA, then the RA would have a better power curve and a hell of a lot more grip so wont spend 5 hours trying to get out of first gear wheelspinning and not going anywhere. To say it'd beat a Subaru is silly, hill climbs are where Evos and Subarus will always dominate. One of the quickest point to point cars

C70R

17,596 posts

103 months

Monday 20th November 2017
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HedgeyGedgey said:
I cannot see how a turbo mx5 will be quicker than a classic Subaru with what 370ish bhp? The weight isn't that much of a difference, 940kgs for the mx5 vs 1170kgs for the RA. Now if you use the math of 100kgs is equal to 22bhp in a straight line, the mx5 would need close to 340bhp to beat the RA, then the RA would have a better power curve and a hell of a lot more grip so wont spend 5 hours trying to get out of first gear wheelspinning and not going anywhere. To say it'd beat a Subaru is silly, hill climbs are where Evos and Subarus will always dominate. One of the quickest point to point cars
A fair point, but you could probably get that MX5 weight below 900kg with a little work (FG bonnet/boot and lightweight seats), meaning it's going to stop and change direction a LOT more efficiently than the Impreza (all things like tyres and brakes being equal).
The point you're making is sensible, but it's a lot more complex than just looking at power:weight. The most successful hillclimb cars are generally 2WD and VERY lightweight.

TroubledSoul

Original Poster:

4,589 posts

193 months

Monday 20th November 2017
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C70R said:
A fair point, but you could probably get that MX5 weight below 900kg with a little work (FG bonnet/boot and lightweight seats), meaning it's going to stop and change direction a LOT more efficiently than the Impreza (all things like tyres and brakes being equal).
The point you're making is sensible, but it's a lot more complex than just looking at power:weight. The most successful hillclimb cars are generally 2WD and VERY lightweight.
With it being class based though, the classic Impreza would be very competitive in its class I think, especially with 500bhp on board biggrin

I can do most work myself but have a tame specialist who is well known as an Impreza and Evo man for when I can't/don't want to. That said, he's an old school mechanic and could turn his hand to most things I imagine.

My current train of thought it go ahead and do the season on what I've got. Get the M3 finished, then around halfway through the season make a decision which way I want to go, get hold of a base for the next project and take my time deciding on spec and starting work.

In the mean time I may well end up destroying the budget, buying an Elise as a road car and end up hating driving the Impreza because of it laugh Who knows, I've appreciated all the advice here though and when the time comes I will come back and update with which way I went.

HedgeyGedgey

1,281 posts

93 months

Tuesday 21st November 2017
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C70R said:
A fair point, but you could probably get that MX5 weight below 900kg with a little work (FG bonnet/boot and lightweight seats), meaning it's going to stop and change direction a LOT more efficiently than the Impreza (all things like tyres and brakes being equal).
The point you're making is sensible, but it's a lot more complex than just looking at power:weight. The most successful hillclimb cars are generally 2WD and VERY lightweight.
Yes and no, you can remove more weight from a heavier car. Trying to lose 50kgs from a Ariel Arrom vs trying to lose 50kgs from Hummer, i know their extreme ends of the scale but a turbod mx5 isnt that fast. Compared with crummy 1.2 corsas yes its faster, compared with actual fast cars theyre not

C70R

17,596 posts

103 months

Wednesday 22nd November 2017
quotequote all
HedgeyGedgey said:
C70R said:
A fair point, but you could probably get that MX5 weight below 900kg with a little work (FG bonnet/boot and lightweight seats), meaning it's going to stop and change direction a LOT more efficiently than the Impreza (all things like tyres and brakes being equal).
The point you're making is sensible, but it's a lot more complex than just looking at power:weight. The most successful hillclimb cars are generally 2WD and VERY lightweight.
Yes and no, you can remove more weight from a heavier car. Trying to lose 50kgs from a Ariel Arrom vs trying to lose 50kgs from Hummer, i know their extreme ends of the scale but a turbod mx5 isnt that fast. Compared with crummy 1.2 corsas yes its faster, compared with actual fast cars theyre not
Hillclimbs are not all about flat-out speed and power - it's about braking, changing direction, and accelerating. That's why the fastest hillclimb cars are lightweight, single-seaters; not 4WD mega-power beasts.

TroubledSoul

Original Poster:

4,589 posts

193 months

Wednesday 22nd November 2017
quotequote all
C70R said:
Hillclimbs are not all about flat-out speed and power - it's about braking, changing direction, and accelerating. That's why the fastest hillclimb cars are lightweight, single-seaters; not 4WD mega-power beasts.
Absolutely, and that's also why it's a class based system so that we CAN compete in 4WD mega-power beasts laugh

But to back up your point, the 182 Clios are going up the hill faster than I am at the moment....

C70R

17,596 posts

103 months

Wednesday 22nd November 2017
quotequote all
TroubledSoul said:
C70R said:
Hillclimbs are not all about flat-out speed and power - it's about braking, changing direction, and accelerating. That's why the fastest hillclimb cars are lightweight, single-seaters; not 4WD mega-power beasts.
Absolutely, and that's also why it's a class based system so that we CAN compete in 4WD mega-power beasts laugh

But to back up your point, the 182 Clios are going up the hill faster than I am at the moment....
Indeed.
Looking at the Shelsley Walsh class records, you can see that a 2.3 stroker Evo 5 (500+bhp) is over a second slower than a sub-200bhp Caterham 7 Hayabusa up a 30sec run.
Give an MX5 300bhp (probably for less money than 500bhp in an Impreza), and you'd see the same result.

Scobblelotcher

1,724 posts

111 months

Wednesday 22nd November 2017
quotequote all
C70R said:
Indeed.
Looking at the Shelsley Walsh class records, you can see that a 2.3 stroker Evo 5 (500+bhp) is over a second slower than a sub-200bhp Caterham 7 Hayabusa up a 30sec run.
Give an MX5 300bhp (probably for less money than 500bhp in an Impreza), and you'd see the same result.
I think there’s little chance a 300bhp mx5 could take on a 500bhp Impreza classic. The classic is only a small amount heavier and having done a track day in a 517bhp Impreza I know how ballastic they are. The performance which it can make the most of thanks to AWD and a good suspension setup is breathtaking.

A 500bhp+ classic is also a well trodden path and I would guess be far more reliable than a 300 mx5. The Impreza just needs a ej207, 6 speed and the usual supporting mods.

If it was a 500bhp newage vs a 300bhp it would be much closer.