Rejecting vehicle from dealer within 30 days.

Rejecting vehicle from dealer within 30 days.

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Discussion

mac132

Original Poster:

9 posts

70 months

Friday 25th May 2018
quotequote all
Hi,
I've purchased a vehicle 5 days ago from a dealer.
I've recently had the car checked and following issues were found:
Wishbones needed replacing
ball joints both sides
breaks
anti roll bar bush
Mainly issues with the suspension.
The car has only 2 month MOT left but in the current state the car wouldn't pass MOT.
On top of that car uses excessive amounts of petrol for 1.4L. After just travelling 10 miles my estimated mileage went down from 160 miles to 120 miles.
No faults were found that could lead to such excessive fuel consumption.

I am aware vehicles purchased from a dealer with "significant faults" can be returned although what is considered as a significant fault. Based on the issues listed can the vehicle be rejected under the grounds that the vehicle is not of satisfactory quality, and free from any defect”.

Thanks

cuprabob

14,414 posts

213 months

Friday 25th May 2018
quotequote all
mac132 said:
Hi,

On top of that car uses excessive amounts of petrol for 1.4L. After just travelling 10 miles my estimated mileage went down from 160 miles to 120 miles.
No faults were found that could lead to such excessive fuel consumption.


Thanks
Just because tbe estimated range dropped 40miles during a 10 mile journey, doesn't mean it's using excessive fuel.

The estimated range is based on the average mpg over a defined previous period. If the car has been driven gently over the previous period the range can actually increase, just like it goes down quicker if it's being driven around town.



Tony33

1,065 posts

121 months

Friday 25th May 2018
quotequote all
How old is the car? Was any warranty supplied by the dealer?

Regarding fuel consumption going by the change in estimated range is very inaccurate as the car will base it on the average fuel consumption over a period of time. So if the car was being driven at a steady 40mph the estimated range will be much higher than stop start traffic in town. I recently filled up, did a few short trips and did a long trip on the motorway. The estimated range kept increasing for a good 50 or so miles. I did a 260 mile journey for about half that amount of fuel according to the estimated range from when I set off!

mac132

Original Poster:

9 posts

70 months

Friday 25th May 2018
quotequote all
cuprabob said:
Just because tbe estimated range dropped 40miles during a 10 mile journey, doesn't mean it's using excessive fuel.

The estimated range is based on the average mpg over a defined previous period. If the car has been driven gently over the previous period the range can actually increase, just like it goes down quicker if it's being driven around town.
Problem is, mileage only decreases, hasn't gone up once after testing on different roads. I've tried driving as economically as possible motorways / dual carriageways. I am aware fuel consumption increases in town / city.

mac132

Original Poster:

9 posts

70 months

Friday 25th May 2018
quotequote all
Tony33 said:
How old is the car? Was any warranty supplied by the dealer?

Regarding fuel consumption going by the change in estimated range is very inaccurate as the car will base it on the average fuel consumption over a period of time. So if the car was being driven at a steady 40mph the estimated range will be much higher than stop start traffic in town. I recently filled up, did a few short trips and did a long trip on the motorway. The estimated range kept increasing for a good 50 or so miles. I did a 260 mile journey for about half that amount of fuel according to the estimated range from when I set off!
Car is 09 reg approx 85k miles, 6 month warranty was supposed to be emailed to me but nothing come through. Since I've had this car I haven't noticed the estimated range to increase even once and I drive short and long distances outside of town which worries me.


Edited by mac132 on Friday 25th May 22:00

steve-5snwi

8,592 posts

92 months

Friday 25th May 2018
quotequote all
So its a 9 year old used car ? What are the significant faults you have found that stop you using it ? Have you actually filled the car run it then refilled to do a calculated measurement ? My mondeo went from 63 miles left in the tank up to 95 while i popped into screwfix, so i have the opposite issue to you, i've only owned it a week, oh and my suspension is worn but given its age i guess i'll replace it but i doubt i'll look at rejecting it.

Unfortunately you have purchased a used car, if you wanted something new maybe you should have purchased one. Why not put the car in for an MOT and see what happens, oh and look at the previous MOT history, bushes don't usually fail over 12 months.

DuraAce

4,240 posts

159 months

Friday 25th May 2018
quotequote all
mac132 said:
Problem is, mileage only decreases, hasn't gone up once after testing on different roads. I've tried driving as economically as possible motorways / dual carriageways. I am aware fuel consumption increases in town / city.
Many cars (mine included) don't increase the mileage remaining if you drive sensibly. It just allows down the rate that it drops.
Mine only increases the miles remaining when you fill with fuel.

p4cks

6,885 posts

198 months

Friday 25th May 2018
quotequote all
Millennial

Shiv_P

2,724 posts

104 months

Friday 25th May 2018
quotequote all
p4cks said:
Millennial
ha
ha
ha

Paddymcc

929 posts

190 months

Friday 25th May 2018
quotequote all
mac132 said:
Hi,

On top of that car uses excessive amounts of petrol for 1.4L. After just travelling 10 miles my estimated mileage went down from 160 miles to 120 miles.
No faults were found that could lead to such excessive fuel consumption.
Jesus fk I actually worry for the future of humanity

anonymous-user

53 months

Saturday 26th May 2018
quotequote all
Totally normal wear and tear items on a car of that age and mileage. They are not major failures, they are maintenance items.

The time to inspect a car is before buying it, not after. However, that said, take it to a council run MoT place and see if it passes. They are genuinely independent as they don’t do repairs.

Could be the garage you asked to have a look scented some easy money when you brought it in and asked them to check it over. Could be the suspension really is knackered.

If it fails the MoT then personally I’d be looking for the dealer to rectify the failure points as the car wasn’t roadworthy at the point of sale. Advisories I’d take on the chin on an old and presumably fairly cheap car.

Your method of measuring fuel consumption isn’t accurate, you’re relying on a gauge that might be complete fiction. Some cars have pretty decent range meters, some have ones that jump all over the place. The only reasonably accurate way to know your mpg is fill the tank, reset the trip counter, drive it (perferably until nearly empty) then fill it up again and work out the mpg from how much fuel you put in.

LarsG

991 posts

74 months

Saturday 26th May 2018
quotequote all
mac132 said:
Hi,
I've purchased a vehicle 5 days ago from a dealer.
I've recently had the car checked and following issues were found:
Wishbones needed replacing
ball joints both sides
breaks
anti roll bar bush
Mainly issues with the suspension.
The car has only 2 month MOT left but in the current state the car wouldn't pass MOT.
On top of that car uses excessive amounts of petrol for 1.4L. After just travelling 10 miles my estimated mileage went down from 160 miles to 120 miles.
No faults were found that could lead to such excessive fuel consumption.

I am aware vehicles purchased from a dealer with "significant faults" can be returned although what is considered as a significant fault. Based on the issues listed can the vehicle be rejected under the grounds that the vehicle is not of satisfactory quality, and free from any defect”.

Thanks
Ok, take it to two different garages, get them to give you a statement of what needs to be done.

Go back to where you bought it from and show them the reports.

Ask them nicely to put these things right or give you your money back.

If they don't do either be firm and say that if they do not put these thing right you will take it to another garage have the work carried out. You will then expect them to reimburse you. Send them the bill and ask for payment. If they refuse Then download the claims form from the small claims court. Do not get into an argument.

The Consumer Law is in your side, the vehicle has to be fit for purpose. Unless these problems were pointed out to you and you signed a waiver.

Fill it in honestly, do not embellish, only state facts. Leave out the fuel consumption as that is only subjective.

Send a copy of the form to them by recorded delivery and keep proof of delivery and state that if the work is not done or a refund is not made in 7 days you will submit the form. Don't be emotional, don't embellish don't threaten, just state what you will do and head the covering letter with "Letter Before Action".

At this point they will generally capitulate but some can be stubborn.

Submit the form, don't forget to add £500 to the total amount for inconvenience.

The court hearing will be informal, sat round a table. You will win, no doubt about it. If they fail to turn up you also win and then ask the court to send in the bailiffs. That costs you nothing. You get your money back.

I did this with Fords of WINSFORD but the capitulated when I sent them a copy of the claim form.


Edited by LarsG on Saturday 26th May 09:46


Edited by LarsG on Saturday 26th May 09:48

seriousrikk

61 posts

128 months

Saturday 26th May 2018
quotequote all
Where did you get it checked over?

My sister in law purchased a car last year and had a couple of issues, so took it to a well known if not respected auto chain for their 'X points car check'.

Naturally it failed quite spectacularly, as one would expect from a 14 year old pug. The list of jobs needed was over £800... So once she had got over her abject disappointment and spoken with me I looked at the list and predicted that a reliable garage would probably be a better option. It was, out of all the 'safety issues' which meant the 'car should not be on the road' it only needed tie rods and couple of new tyres.

My point is the larger garages that do these free safety checks will paint the worst possible picture - they have to. If they say something is fine and it fails catastrophically and painfully on the way home, current litigation culture could see them facing claims.

Also, what is the car?

Butter Face

30,191 posts

159 months

Saturday 26th May 2018
quotequote all
LarsG said:
the vehicle has to be fit for purpose. Unless these problems were pointed out to you and you signed a waiver.
Lars, again you have gone off half cocked.

You don't know what was paid for the vehicle, what was discussed, what was advertised, or, in fact, any of the material facts of the case.

The dealer doesn't have to point any faults out, and they certainly wouldn't be getting people to sign a waiver (where the hell you've got that from I don't know!)

The OP has found issues post sale, they are all wear and tear items, he has taken it to another garage and they have advised it all 'needs' doing. Does it? Do you know?

Your advice to get it checked is sound, and then decide what to do. Dealers have, and do win cases like this because whilst the law is 'on the side' of the consumer it is still open to interpretation and just because a guy on the internet tells the OP he will win a case, doesn't mean he will.


mac132

Original Poster:

9 posts

70 months

Saturday 26th May 2018
quotequote all
seriousrikk said:
Where did you get it checked over?

My sister in law purchased a car last year and had a couple of issues, so took it to a well known if not respected auto chain for their 'X points car check'.

Naturally it failed quite spectacularly, as one would expect from a 14 year old pug. The list of jobs needed was over £800... So once she had got over her abject disappointment and spoken with me I looked at the list and predicted that a reliable garage would probably be a better option. It was, out of all the 'safety issues' which meant the 'car should not be on the road' it only needed tie rods and couple of new tyres.

My point is the larger garages that do these free safety checks will paint the worst possible picture - they have to. If they say something is fine and it fails catastrophically and painfully on the way home, current litigation culture could see them facing claims.

Also, what is the car?
Got it checked over at my local garage, its a seat ibiza petrol 09 plate with 85k mileage 1.4. Just checked mpg and its showing 19.6 down from 24 , this is dropping even when car is IDLE. I know for a fact there is a problem with fuel consumption. Avg is 47 on auto trader for these vehicles.

Tony33

1,065 posts

121 months

Saturday 26th May 2018
quotequote all
mac132 said:
Got it checked over at my local garage, its a seat ibiza petrol 09 plate with 85k mileage 1.4. Just checked mpg and its showing 19.6 down from 24 , this is dropping even when car is IDLE. I know for a fact there is a problem with fuel consumption. Avg is 47 on auto trader for these vehicles.
Ok but you really need to calculate the fuel consumption yourself. Also bear in mind when idling you are going no distance but using fuel. You could fill it up and leave the car idling until it runs out of fuel and you would have done exactly 0 miles per gallon!

Butter Face

30,191 posts

159 months

Saturday 26th May 2018
quotequote all
Tony33 said:
mac132 said:
Got it checked over at my local garage, its a seat ibiza petrol 09 plate with 85k mileage 1.4. Just checked mpg and its showing 19.6 down from 24 , this is dropping even when car is IDLE. I know for a fact there is a problem with fuel consumption. Avg is 47 on auto trader for these vehicles.
Ok but you really need to calculate the fuel consumption yourself. Also bear in mind when idling you are going no distance but using fuel. You could fill it up and leave the car idling until it runs out of fuel and you would have done exactly 0 miles per gallon!
Yes, this.

Fill the tank, do 100 miles, refill the tank, work out the MPG.

LarsG

991 posts

74 months

Saturday 26th May 2018
quotequote all
Butter Face said:
LarsG said:
the vehicle has to be fit for purpose. Unless these problems were pointed out to you and you signed a waiver.
Lars, again you have gone off half cocked.

You don't know what was paid for the vehicle, what was discussed, what was advertised, or, in fact, any of the material facts of the case.

The dealer doesn't have to point any faults out, and they certainly wouldn't be getting people to sign a waiver (where the hell you've got that from I don't know!)

The OP has found issues post sale, they are all wear and tear items, he has taken it to another garage and they have advised it all 'needs' doing. Does it? Do you know?

Your advice to get it checked is sound, and then decide what to do. Dealers have, and do win cases like this because whilst the law is 'on the side' of the consumer it is still open to interpretation and just because a guy on the internet tells the OP he will win a case, doesn't mean he will.
Hi,
I've purchased a vehicle 5 days ago from a dealer.
I've recently had the car checked and following issues were found:
Wishbones needed replacing
ball joints both sides
breaks
anti roll bar bush
Mainly issues with the suspension.
The car has only 2 month MOT left but in the current state the car wouldn't pass MOT.
On top of that car uses excessive amounts of petrol for 1.4L. After just travelling 10 miles my estimated mileage went down from 160 miles to 120 miles.
No faults were found that could lead to such excessive fuel consumption.

I am aware vehicles purchased from a dealer with "significant faults" can be returned although what is considered as a significant fault. Based on the issues listed can the vehicle be rejected under the grounds that the vehicle is not of satisfactory quality, and free from any defect”.

Thanks

OP states car would not pass MOT in current state.

Why should I not believe him, if he gets two garages to corroborate this the car as not fit for purpose, not safe to use etc.

This "guy on the internet" has been successful in getting his money back on a number of occasions, not to mention chasing non paying customers for his business and used to chase debtors for two major companies. Oh and he has an 2.1 LLB (Hons) .

So if the OP is being honest he will probably come out on top, of not then maybe not.

Now I am not professing to be an expert, but what I am saying to the OP is that if he has told the truth, he should not have been sold an unroadworthy vehicle even as a "runner". So I'm just pointing him in a direction he could recover his costs and on the face of it, if it cannot pass the MOT after 5 days in his possession and he didn't go rallying with it, it's not roadworthy hence not fit for purpose.

It should be roadworthy, reliable consistent with its age.

Oh, and under the new consumer Act:

Between 30 days and 6 months

If a fault comes to light after 30 days but before 6 months you’re entitled to a repair, replacement or refund.

It’s assumed in law that the fault was present at the time of purchase unless the seller can prove otherwise.
Unless you’ve agreed otherwise, the seller (dealer) has only one opportunity to repair (or replace) the faulty vehicle after which, if they fail to repair it, you’re entitled to a refund.
In the event of a refund following a failed attempt at repair during the first six months the seller may make a 'reasonable' adjustment to the amount refunded to take account of the use that you’ve had of the vehicle.

That's just on what he OP has posted. But hey "I'm just that internet guy".

LarsG

991 posts

74 months

Saturday 26th May 2018
quotequote all
Butter Face said:
LarsG said:
the vehicle has to be fit for purpose. Unless these problems were pointed out to you and you signed a waiver.
Lars, again you have gone off half cocked.

You don't know what was paid for the vehicle, what was discussed, what was advertised, or, in fact, any of the material facts of the case.

The dealer doesn't have to point any faults out, and they certainly wouldn't be getting people to sign a waiver (where the hell you've got that from I don't know!)

The OP has found issues post sale, they are all wear and tear items, he has taken it to another garage and they have advised it all 'needs' doing. Does it? Do you know?

Your advice to get it checked is sound, and then decide what to do. Dealers have, and do win cases like this because whilst the law is 'on the side' of the consumer it is still open to interpretation and just because a guy on the internet tells the OP he will win a case, doesn't mean he will.
Oh and not forgetting this in the 2015 Consumer Act:

Faults, repairs and refunds

Under the new act, if a fault renders the product not of satisfactory quality, not fit for purpose or not as described, then the buyer is entitled to reject it within the first 30 days.

I doubt the OP would have bought it if the dealer said "It will fail its MOT, it has suspension problems that male it unsafe and to fix it it will probably cost in excess of £600."

That's an assumption.
From that 'guy on the internet'.

Edited by LarsG on Saturday 26th May 17:56

Monkeylegend

26,226 posts

230 months

Saturday 26th May 2018
quotequote all
LarsG said:
Oh and not forgetting this in the 2015 Consumer Act:

Faults, repairs and refunds

Under the new act, if a fault renders the product not of satisfactory quality, not fit for purpose or not as described, then the buyer is entitled to reject it within the first 30 days.

I doubt the OP would have bought it if the dealer said "It will fail its MOT, it has suspension problems that male it unsafe and to fix it it will probably cost in excess of £600."

That's an assumption.
From that 'guy on the internet'.

Edited by LarsG on Saturday 26th May 17:56
You are learning at least, last week you were still referring to the SOGA despite all your fancy qualifications wink