B-road attacking coupe in reasonable budget?

[ZackM]

ZackM said:

I was starting to wonder what could be done to cut weight. Removing the sound deadening is an interesting idea. 40Kg off is a good amount. Isn't that basically what the 370Z is lighter than the 350Z? But what effect did it have inside the cabin? Too loud? Removing the sound deadening from inside the cabin would most likely make it too loud. But I wonder what effect removing the sound deadening of the boot on his car and around the rear arches had.

Hey coldel, I wanted to bring the above question up again, just in case you missed it.

Do you know? Thanks.

[Christmassss]

ZackM said:

I had a 1990 RX7 turbo. Fun car for the time. But I don't want another Wenkel. And what 200SX? S13? Here the 200SX is that, if I'm not wrong. In the U.S. is the 240SX. But that never really did anything for me. Besides it's much older than I would like too. So that is a better sports car than the 350Z?

Apologies, missed the part where you weren't in the Uk.

By 200sx i mean either the S14a -

https://www.flickr.com/photos/cook88/5971193195

Or the S15 -

https://jdmaccessories.com.au/product/nissan-s15-2...

Both come with the 2.0 Turbo SR20DET, which is good for 300bhp+

In my opinion i would have an RX7/200sx over a 350z as it gives a much more raw experience, I always found the 350z a little dull. However it may well be a different car with a few modifications.

[RobM77]

ZackM said:

ZackM said:

I was starting to wonder what could be done to cut weight. Removing the sound deadening is an interesting idea. 40Kg off is a good amount. Isn't that basically what the 370Z is lighter than the 350Z? But what effect did it have inside the cabin? Too loud? Removing the sound deadening from inside the cabin would most likely make it too loud. But I wonder what effect removing the sound deadening of the boot on his car and around the rear arches had.

Hey coldel, I wanted to bring the above question up again, just in case you missed it.

Do you know? Thanks.

The first thing you need to consider is whether you'd rather have 1500kg GT car with enough quiet to enjoy longer trips, a 1490kg car that's a bit louder or a 1450kg car that will piss you off all the time. I know what I'd rather have out of those options.

[300bhp/ton]

coldel said:

What would you put in the 4-6k category out of interest (genuine interest as I may well sell my celica gt4 next year and wondering what I could buy next, have already owned an R33 Skyline, 350z and VX220 so wondering what else I could get. I don't really want a common four pot turbo hatch or a civic or the like. Wondering what you would put in at 4-6k?

To be completely fair. £4-6k is not a very big budget. So choice is limited these days. And honestly it is a bit of a tall order, or head scratcher at least.

I’d be tempted by a platform that allows growth if you are interested in modified cars. Obviously if your aren’t, then this isn’t the thing to do.

However classics, kit, customs, imports, modified cars are the sorts of things I’d be looking for. A bit more budget, say £10k opens up a lot more choice however.

But it would also come down to a balance of how practical vs how fun. Which is different for everyone.

I also wouldn’t limit choice to only tin tops or front engine.

Mainstream then yes 350z is certainly worth a test drive. But a Boxster is probably more fun, if slower for similar money.

I think the decision would be a personal one on if you want balanced and lightweight car or something brutal. Both can be fun, but at different ends of the scale.

Arguably this is a harder question to answer today than it was 10 years ago. For instance you could get TVR’s and Corvettes for this money and other interesting V8 powered cars previously. But most are now nearly double this budget, as they have reached “that age” and appreciated.

There were also plenty of lightweight sports cas from yesteryear and like your GT-Four, rally wanta-bes. But since the 2000’s the market has changed and such cars simply haven’t been built. So there is a shortage of “fun” coupes in this sector of the used market today. Even classic Impreza’s can be silly money these days. The likes of the CTR, Focus ST and Astra VRX have replaced the previous coupes, roadsters and rally homolgation models. Fine cars in their own right. But a completely different kind of appeal. For instance I have owned an Impreza Turbo and would happily own a Mitsubishi Evo, GT-Four or similar. But I have zero interest in the Focus ST or Astra VXR.

And even the kit car market has changed and they mostly seem a lot more money nowadays too.

Meaning lightweight cars like a GTM Libra or Lotus Excel are no longer viable for this budget.

Bit of a shame really.

Mx-5’s with a supercharger/turbocharger are still doable though. And a few other rag top sports cars. But none are big performers, although potentially can be made a lot of fun (MR2, MGF, Roadster, Z3). But somehow seem to need to much effort and ££££ if you are wanting some poke.

Even the American metal for this price range has all but vanished too.


Ultimately I guess a potential answer is. For this money I wouldn’t. I’d seek other thrills in other ways. But people on open forums such as this often don’t “get it”. And would only ridicule less than ordinary suggestions.

I did personally buy a car this time last year for just over £6k. V8, rwd, 6 speed manual, lot of fun. But again, as it’s not an “ordinary” suggestion. Many just snub their nose at the car. Despite none of them having any first hand experience with them.

[DoubleD]

DoubleD said:

It doesnt matter what others think about the handling, it only matters what you think.

Have you got some test drives sorted?

So Zack, have you got some test drives lined up yet?

[ZackM]

Christmassss said:

Apologies, missed the part where you weren't in the Uk.

By 200sx i mean either the S14a -

https://www.flickr.com/photos/cook88/5971193195

Or the S15 -

https://jdmaccessories.com.au/product/nissan-s15-2...

Both come with the 2.0 Turbo SR20DET, which is good for 300bhp+

In my opinion i would have an RX7/200sx over a 350z as it gives a much more raw experience, I always found the 350z a little dull. However it may well be a different car with a few modifications.

Oh, OK. S14. Over here they are all above budget.

But that reminds me of an Top Gear episode about early 2000s coupes. Clarkson was choosing the best one. In the end is was down to S14 vs Alfa GTV. Clarkson said that even though the S14 was more capable he choose the Alfa. Just because after he parks it, the S14 doesn't make him look back at it and want to get in again and go for another spin. I totally understand that feeling.

But they are above budget here.And to be honest so are RX7 FDs.

[ZackM]

DoubleD said:

So Zack, have you got some test drives lined up yet?

No, not yet. I don't want to drive 100KM to test a car I don't know if I will buy. I also want to test one at a dealership first. Because then I won't waste a private persons time by driving their car knowing I won't buy it, because it's either too high mileage or riced up etc. I also want to drive a stock one first. So I'm looking for a stock one near by in a dealership. Will probably take a bit.

So your question about test drives, in plural form read a bit comical from my point of view. I will be lucky if I find ONE soon.

It's not like in the U.S or UK where they are everywhere. I don't remember ever seeing one on the road to be honest. At least not recently. Maybe I just don't go to places where they are. But definitely not on the road. I saw a GTR on the Autobahn last week though. But I think it's the first I ever saw here.

Edited by ZackM on Friday 21st September 15:14

[DoubleD]

ZackM said:

DoubleD said:

So Zack, have you got some test drives lined up yet?

No, not yet. I don't want to drive 100KM to test a car I don't know if I will buy. I also want to test one at a dealership first. Because then I won't waste a private persons time by driving their car knowing I won't buy it, because it's either too high mileage or riced up etc. I also want to drive a stock one first. So I'm looking for a stock one near by in a dealership. Will probably take a bit.

But you wont know if you do want to buy a car if you dont actually test it.

Like said before, your opinion is what matters, it doesnt matter what we or some bloke of the telly thinks.

If you are actually looking for a car then an hours drive is nothing.

[ZackM]

DoubleD said:

But you wont know if you do want to buy a car if you dont actually test it.

Like said before, your opinion is what matters, it doesnt matter what we or some bloke of the telly thinks.

If you are actually looking for a car then an hours drive is nothing.

Absolutely. And I will drive one. But I'm not in any hurry. I don't want to drive far. Did it many times and it's disappointing sometimes. So many dishonest sellers with the condition of their cars etc. I will wait for one close by to pop up. Then if I drive it and fall in love with it, I will go anywhere to pick up the right one.

Like I said they are rare here. It makes the purchase process harder. But it is what it is.

I don't think anybody would even know what it is if they see one, besides petrolheads. Unless they read the badge.

So this can be nice in the end. Not much chance of pulling next to another one in a red light. Not that this is very important. But it's better than something everybody has. Everybody and their grammas have a M3, M4 or Cayman. RCZs are a dime a dozen. TTs and Boxter are even more common. I think every girl who don't drive a crossover of some sort probably has a Boxter or a TT. All very common on the road. But Japanese sports cars not really. You don't see 350Z, 370Z, Supra, RX7 etc. MX-5 sure. GT86 also not that uncommon.The Koreans are also common, like Hyundai Coupe and Genesis.

Something else you also don't see often is British cars. You never really see Lotus or Astons. Jaguars only the XE, XF and the crossovers. But I can't remember last time I saw a F-type out of a dealership. Alfa 4C is also rare. Saw one outside of the dealership so far.

The truth is, here, if you drive something which is not German, or at least French, you are seen as a bit of a weirdo. Korean is now very accepted too and Mazda and a couple of other brands. But majority is German. VW actually or one of its variations. Audi, Seat, Skoda etc.

Edited by ZackM on Friday 21st September 15:36

[GreatGranny]

300bhp/ton said:

Typically long, detailed and slightly eccentric answer :-)

Welcome back 300, been a while.

[coldel]

ZackM said:

ZackM said:

I was starting to wonder what could be done to cut weight. Removing the sound deadening is an interesting idea. 40Kg off is a good amount. Isn't that basically what the 370Z is lighter than the 350Z? But what effect did it have inside the cabin? Too loud? Removing the sound deadening from inside the cabin would most likely make it too loud. But I wonder what effect removing the sound deadening of the boot on his car and around the rear arches had.

Hey coldel, I wanted to bring the above question up again, just in case you missed it.

Do you know? Thanks.

I sat as a passenger in the guys car, and to be honest didnt notice over the noise of the XYZ midpipe and decat he had installed. But its all about making marginal gains, 40kgs might only be 3% but then you can look at weight saving all over the car. The standard exhaust and decat will save you another 20kgs if you get something lightweight. Suddenly the car is down at under 1500kgs but all the time you are increasing the Bhp to tonne ratio. And hey go on a diet as well will help haha. The noise in the cabin is more even with the sound proofing than you average car as the rear wheel arches are in the same cabin space as you - its the first thing I noticed when driving mine, sounded like the window was open. But you get used to it.

A remap will add 10-20 bhp depending on mods and start point etc. combine that with weight loss and you suddenly see the car with 300bhp, lighter, two seater RWD front engined V6 doing something pretty cool. Personally I think the car has aged well also in terms of looks, given its a 2002 design.

To be frank, find some local dealers and go drive the cars...you will know then...

[ZackM]

coldel said:

At the end of the day its a 3.5litre V6 GT car with a naturally aspirated 300bhp that carries a little bit too much weight but for the money it's a very good option.

Continuing on the weight topic, I have been comparing the 350Z to other coupes and sports cars:

350Z: 1534 kg, 300hp, 0-100k/h: 5.8s
370Z: 1471 kg, 328hp, 0-100k/h: 5.3s
Mustang Ecoboost (4cyl.) 1655 kg, 317hp 0-100k/h: 5.8s
Hyundai Genesis: 1513 kg , 306hp, 0-100k/h: 6.5s
F-Type V6: 1567 kg, 340hp, 0-100k/h: 5.7s
Audi TT 2.0 : 1260 kg , 200hp, 0-100k/h: 6.6s
RCZ: 1272 kg, 200hp, 0-100k/h: 7.5s

And a totally different type of car just for comparison sake:

Focus RS: 1367 kg, 305hp, 0-100k/h: 5.9s

So how are these cars in comparison to the 350Z? Weights to power is not very different. Only the 370Z and F-type are quicker, but by a hair. Is the F-type at 1567kg perceived as heavy too for example?

[DoubleD]

What town do you live in Zack?

[ZackM]

coldel said:

I sat as a passenger in the guys car, and to be honest didnt notice over the noise of the XYZ midpipe and decat he had installed. But its all about making marginal gains, 40kgs might only be 3% but then you can look at weight saving all over the car. The standard exhaust and decat will save you another 20kgs if you get something lightweight. Suddenly the car is down at under 1500kgs but all the time you are increasing the Bhp to tonne ratio. And hey go on a diet as well will help haha. The noise in the cabin is more even with the sound proofing than you average car as the rear wheel arches are in the same cabin space as you - its the first thing I noticed when driving mine, sounded like the window was open. But you get used to it.

A remap will add 10-20 bhp depending on mods and start point etc. combine that with weight loss and you suddenly see the car with 300bhp, lighter, two seater RWD front engined V6 doing something pretty cool. Personally I think the car has aged well also in terms of looks, given its a 2002 design.

To be frank, find some local dealers and go drive the cars...you will know then...

Yes. Looking for one at a dealership now. Will test as soon as found.

I know what you mean about cabin noise with the wheels inside. I have had a few cars which were like this.

I agree the styling has aged well. I think it's because it's quite clean.

Your replies are very useful. Your experience with the car shows.

Cutting weight is definitely another way of adding hp. To be honest I think it's even better than adding hp actually.

Where else do you see a chance for weight cutting? What about creature comforts? Electric mirrors, electric seats? I would keep AC and electric windows as well as sat navi though. But wouldn't mind tossing a few less useful and superfluous things out.

[ZackM]

DoubleD said:

What town do you live in Zack?

Sorry mate. But I'm not going to give my home address on the internet. But it's small.

Besides I don't see how this is relevant to the discussion.

[DoubleD]

ZackM said:

DoubleD said:

What town do you live in Zack?

Sorry mate. But I'm not going to give my home address on the internet. But it's small.

Besides I don't see how this is relevant to the discussion.

Giving the nearest town wont give your home address away.

If you are serious about getting a car, then folk on here can help you find one nearby.

[ZackM]

DoubleD said:

Giving the nearest town wont give your home address away.

If you are serious about getting a car, then folk on here can help you find one nearby.

Don't worry. I can find my own car.

But thanks!

[DoubleD]

ZackM said:

DoubleD said:

Giving the nearest town wont give your home address away.

If you are serious about getting a car, then folk on here can help you find one nearby.

Don't worry. I can find my own car.

But thanks!

Are you actually serious about getting a car? Or have the past 8 pages just been you killing time on the internet?

[ZackM]

DoubleD said:

Are you actually serious about getting a car? Or have the past 8 pages just been you killing time on the internet?

Serious! Can't take any of this FWD and 4x4 only anymore. Been too long.

You marry, start a family, get kids and start neglecting your own wants. Time to get a fun car.

[coldel]

ZackM said:

Yes. Looking for one at a dealership now. Will test as soon as found.

I know what you mean about cabin noise with the wheels inside. I have had a few cars which were like this.

I agree the styling has aged well. I think it's because it's quite clean.

Your replies are very useful. Your experience with the car shows.

Cutting weight is definitely another way of adding hp. To be honest I think it's even better than adding hp actually.

Where else do you see a chance for weight cutting? What about creature comforts? Electric mirrors, electric seats? I would keep AC and electric windows as well as sat navi though. But wouldn't mind tossing a few less useful and superfluous things out.

The standard seat weigh a tonne, if you get the electric ones etc. UK spec only had two specs, Japanese imports many more variations of the two. Replacing seats for carbon or lightweight would make a massive difference. The Rays I am referring to are these http://motor-stars.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/... the ones you linked are the GT4 special edition wheels. My bad, six spoke also not five!

Don't bother paying a premium for the factory sat nav option, better off getting one with a cubby hole and installing your own tablet - the sat nav is the out of date 'Bird View' which is just terrible. Or just hook your phone up!

If you are interested, sign up to 350z-uk.com loads of knowledge on there, loads of members who will help you through including non-UK ones. Lots of options people have run through from supercharged/turbo conversions, to engine swaps, to mad styling.