B-road attacking coupe in reasonable budget?

B-road attacking coupe in reasonable budget?

Author
Discussion

underphil

1,245 posts

209 months

Friday 21st September 2018
quotequote all
ZackM said:
Continuing on the weight topic, I have been comparing the 350Z to other coupes and sports cars:

350Z: 1534 kg, 300hp, 0-100k/h: 5.8s
370Z: 1471 kg, 328hp, 0-100k/h: 5.3s
Mustang Ecoboost (4cyl.) 1655 kg, 317hp 0-100k/h: 5.8s
Hyundai Genesis: 1513 kg , 306hp, 0-100k/h: 6.5s
F-Type V6: 1567 kg, 340hp, 0-100k/h: 5.7s
Audi TT 2.0 : 1260 kg , 200hp, 0-100k/h: 6.6s
RCZ: 1272 kg, 200hp, 0-100k/h: 7.5s

And a totally different type of car just for comparison sake:

Focus RS: 1367 kg, 305hp, 0-100k/h: 5.9s

So how are these cars in comparison to the 350Z? Weights to power is not very different. Only the 370Z and F-type are quicker, but by a hair. Is the F-type at 1567kg perceived as heavy too for example?
worth baring in mind that the published weights are often a work of fiction, over 10% optimistic in some cases

Though Japanese manufacturers do seem more honest, same with BMW

coldel

7,733 posts

145 months

Friday 21st September 2018
quotequote all
300bhp/ton said:
To be completely fair. £4-6k is not a very big budget. So choice is limited these days. And honestly it is a bit of a tall order, or head scratcher at least.

I’d be tempted by a platform that allows growth if you are interested in modified cars. Obviously if your aren’t, then this isn’t the thing to do.

However classics, kit, customs, imports, modified cars are the sorts of things I’d be looking for. A bit more budget, say £10k opens up a lot more choice however.

But it would also come down to a balance of how practical vs how fun. Which is different for everyone.

I also wouldn’t limit choice to only tin tops or front engine.

Mainstream then yes 350z is certainly worth a test drive. But a Boxster is probably more fun, if slower for similar money.

I think the decision would be a personal one on if you want balanced and lightweight car or something brutal. Both can be fun, but at different ends of the scale.

Arguably this is a harder question to answer today than it was 10 years ago. For instance you could get TVR’s and Corvettes for this money and other interesting V8 powered cars previously. But most are now nearly double this budget, as they have reached “that age” and appreciated.

There were also plenty of lightweight sports cas from yesteryear and like your GT-Four, rally wanta-bes. But since the 2000’s the market has changed and such cars simply haven’t been built. So there is a shortage of “fun” coupes in this sector of the used market today. Even classic Impreza’s can be silly money these days. The likes of the CTR, Focus ST and Astra VRX have replaced the previous coupes, roadsters and rally homolgation models. Fine cars in their own right. But a completely different kind of appeal. For instance I have owned an Impreza Turbo and would happily own a Mitsubishi Evo, GT-Four or similar. But I have zero interest in the Focus ST or Astra VXR.

And even the kit car market has changed and they mostly seem a lot more money nowadays too.

Meaning lightweight cars like a GTM Libra or Lotus Excel are no longer viable for this budget.

Bit of a shame really.

Mx-5’s with a supercharger/turbocharger are still doable though. And a few other rag top sports cars. But none are big performers, although potentially can be made a lot of fun (MR2, MGF, Roadster, Z3). But somehow seem to need to much effort and ££££ if you are wanting some poke.

Even the American metal for this price range has all but vanished too.


Ultimately I guess a potential answer is. For this money I wouldn’t. I’d seek other thrills in other ways. But people on open forums such as this often don’t “get it”. And would only ridicule less than ordinary suggestions.

I did personally buy a car this time last year for just over £6k. V8, rwd, 6 speed manual, lot of fun. But again, as it’s not an “ordinary” suggestion. Many just snub their nose at the car. Despite none of them having any first hand experience with them.
Camero per chance? But yes thats the challenge, I don't want a bland warm hatchback, I wouldn't mind getting back in a two seater again and being sat lower down in the car. The Celica is too good value for money - nice and rare, powerful, good handling...but I wouldnt mind getting in that race car feel again.

ZackM

Original Poster:

269 posts

68 months

Friday 21st September 2018
quotequote all
coldel said:
The standard seat weigh a tonne, if you get the electric ones etc. UK spec only had two specs, Japanese imports many more variations of the two. Replacing seats for carbon or lightweight would make a massive difference. The Rays I am referring to are these http://motor-stars.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/... the ones you linked are the GT4 special edition wheels. My bad, six spoke also not five!

Don't bother paying a premium for the factory sat nav option, better off getting one with a cubby hole and installing your own tablet - the sat nav is the out of date 'Bird View' which is just terrible. Or just hook your phone up!

If you are interested, sign up to 350z-uk.com loads of knowledge on there, loads of members who will help you through including non-UK ones. Lots of options people have run through from supercharged/turbo conversions, to engine swaps, to mad styling.
OK, thanks for the tip. I will check that forum out.

Sound advice about the sat navi. Thanks.

So I'm guessing the GT wheels are hard to come by? How are they for weight? They are by far my favorites.

About the seats, is it possible to just take the motors etc out and keep the seats? Would that save much weight? I'm not sure I want to go with thin plastic or carbon seats. I like the leather. But definitely don't need electric. smile

coldel

7,733 posts

145 months

Friday 21st September 2018
quotequote all
ZackM said:
OK, thanks for the tip. I will check that forum out.

Sound advice about the sat navi. Thanks.

So I'm guessing the GT wheels are hard to come by? How are they for weight? They are by far my favorites.

About the seats, is it possible to just take the motors etc out and keep the seats? Would that save much weight? I'm not sure I want to go with thin plastic or carbon seats. I like the leather. But definitely don't need electric. smile
The GT4 wheels (car named after the game!) generally don't leave the cars, as owners like to keep the cars complete. But sometimes they pop up. You can remove the motors I presume, but then you would need some sort of manual replacement to move them. Better off just getting some GT style seats instead?

ZackM

Original Poster:

269 posts

68 months

Friday 21st September 2018
quotequote all
coldel said:
The GT4 wheels (car named after the game!) generally don't leave the cars, as owners like to keep the cars complete. But sometimes they pop up. You can remove the motors I presume, but then you would need some sort of manual replacement to move them. Better off just getting some GT style seats instead?
Ok. If the GT seats are easy to come by then I could. Good weight savings? I guess they are from the prior mentioned GT4 edition? Is a GT4 edition car hard to find or carry a high premium in price over a standard late 350Z?

coldel

7,733 posts

145 months

Friday 21st September 2018
quotequote all
ZackM said:
Ok. If the GT seats are easy to come by then I could. Good weight savings? I guess they are from the prior mentioned GT4 edition? Is a GT4 edition car hard to find or carry a high premium in price over a standard late 350Z?
GT4s are a limited run https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-review/first-drives/... but to be honest the better car is the HR. The GT4 will ask a premium though in name only rather than any noticable advantage.

ZackM

Original Poster:

269 posts

68 months

Friday 21st September 2018
quotequote all
coldel said:
GT4s are a limited run https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-review/first-drives/... but to be honest the better car is the HR. The GT4 will ask a premium though in name only rather than any noticable advantage.
Ok. I didn't know the GT4 was DE only. I will definitely try to get a HR car. Some things I read about the DE put me off it.

Besides, what I like about the GT4 is the wheels. I can probably find something similar aftermarket.

So the GT seats you mentioned aren't GT4? I guess GT is a normal trim?

DoubleD

22,154 posts

107 months

Friday 21st September 2018
quotequote all
ZackM said:
DoubleD said:
Are you actually serious about getting a car? Or have the past 8 pages just been you killing time on the internet?
Serious! Can't take any of this FWD and 4x4 only anymore. Been too long. wink

You marry, start a family, get kids and start neglecting your own wants. Time to get a fun car. wink
Well if you are serious then take a 1 hour trip and drive that car thats 100km away. There is no point in going into details about seats and wheels until you have driven the car.

ZackM

Original Poster:

269 posts

68 months

Friday 21st September 2018
quotequote all
Found some interesting details about the 350Z made for Europe. Not sure if that includes the UK versions because they are RHD and so maybe they are like the Japanese versions. But in Europe they only offered one trim. The top trim. In the U.S. they had like 5 trims. But here only the top trim. They are all called just 350Z though.

But they all have the top specs as standard. Such as the Brembos, larger wheels, ESP and all the gadgets. For the Brembos I found: "the calipers are made of gold anodized aluminum and fitted as standard in the German variants"

The German versions had some special things:

"In addition, the aerodynamics have been modified. Air ducts on the underbody ensure that the differential on the rear axle had extra cooling by additional cooling fins."

Even a larger water cooler was added to the German versions.

It seems Nissan was really worried about competing as well as they could with all those Porsches. I got all this info from German article.

Also a few interesting things I had no idea about. But this seems to be for the 350Z in general. The drive train is mounted lower for a low center of gravity and the engine is pretty far back. Doesn't seem to be quite front middle engine but more backwards than normal. The center of gravity of the engine is behind the front axle for sure. Because of that it has a 53%-47% weight distribution.

It has some impressive features for a car this age and at this price range too. Carbon fiber prop shaft, the bonnet and most of the components of the suspension are aluminium etc. All ordinary stuff in this type of car today. But didn't expect it in a car which started production in 2003.

It seems Nissan indeed tried to do the best they could for the car.



Edited by ZackM on Friday 21st September 20:53

DoubleD

22,154 posts

107 months

Friday 21st September 2018
quotequote all
Great. Test drive one and buy it if you like it.

300bhp/ton

41,030 posts

189 months

Friday 21st September 2018
quotequote all
coldel said:
Camero per chance? But yes thats the challenge, I don't want a bland warm hatchback, I wouldn't mind getting back in a two seater again and being sat lower down in the car. The Celica is too good value for money - nice and rare, powerful, good handling...but I wouldnt mind getting in that race car feel again.
Yes it was a Camaro. My 2nd.



Weighs the same as an E46 M3. 350hp/350ft lb and geared for 180mph.

https://youtu.be/Ki6rKAlzyqY

ZackM

Original Poster:

269 posts

68 months

Saturday 22nd September 2018
quotequote all
DoubleD said:
Great. Test drive one and buy it if you like it.
As soon as I'm ready. Not a second before. wink

Kawasicki

13,041 posts

234 months

Sunday 23rd September 2018
quotequote all
ZackM said:
Found some interesting details about the 350Z made for Europe. Not sure if that includes the UK versions because they are RHD and so maybe they are like the Japanese versions. But in Europe they only offered one trim. The top trim. In the U.S. they had like 5 trims. But here only the top trim. They are all called just 350Z though.

But they all have the top specs as standard. Such as the Brembos, larger wheels, ESP and all the gadgets. For the Brembos I found: "the calipers are made of gold anodized aluminum and fitted as standard in the German variants"

The German versions had some special things:

"In addition, the aerodynamics have been modified. Air ducts on the underbody ensure that the differential on the rear axle had extra cooling by additional cooling fins."

Even a larger water cooler was added to the German versions.

It seems Nissan was really worried about competing as well as they could with all those Porsches. I got all this info from German article.

Also a few interesting things I had no idea about. But this seems to be for the 350Z in general. The drive train is mounted lower for a low center of gravity and the engine is pretty far back. Doesn't seem to be quite front middle engine but more backwards than normal. The center of gravity of the engine is behind the front axle for sure. Because of that it has a 53%-47% weight distribution.

It has some impressive features for a car this age and at this price range too. Carbon fiber prop shaft, the bonnet and most of the components of the suspension are aluminium etc. All ordinary stuff in this type of car today. But didn't expect it in a car which started production in 2003.

It seems Nissan indeed tried to do the best they could for the car.



Edited by ZackM on Friday 21st September 20:53
I would say the additional aero and cooling work was to cope with sustained high speed on the Autobahn, rather than some competition pressures.

ZackM

Original Poster:

269 posts

68 months

Monday 24th September 2018
quotequote all
Kawasicki said:
I would say the additional aero and cooling work was to cope with sustained high speed on the Autobahn, rather than some competition pressures.
Yes you are right. The brake upgrades as well.

My remark about wanting to compete with Porsches was more about the whole car in general. It seems they had their mind in the right places when designing it and put an effort. With things like carbon fiber shaft, aluminium body and suspension parts and all the details.

coldel

7,733 posts

145 months

Monday 24th September 2018
quotequote all
It was designed as a GT car, definitely with the US market in mind i.e. longer distance cruiser.

ZackM

Original Poster:

269 posts

68 months

Monday 24th September 2018
quotequote all
coldel said:
It was designed as a GT car, definitely with the US market in mind i.e. longer distance cruiser.
Yes. I know it was even designed in California. wink

But the U.S. is full of Porsches as well right? biggrin

Regardless they felt the need to make changes for the German market. smile

ZackM

Original Poster:

269 posts

68 months

Tuesday 25th September 2018
quotequote all
Bone Rat said:
Yes there are the different handling characteristics but what swung us to the TT was the dirty great beam across the boot space in the Nissan which meant it became functionally bonkers.
I saw this picture and remembered this post. smile


Herbs

4,912 posts

228 months

Tuesday 25th September 2018
quotequote all
ZackM said:
Bone Rat said:
Yes there are the different handling characteristics but what swung us to the TT was the dirty great beam across the boot space in the Nissan which meant it became functionally bonkers.
I saw this picture and remembered this post. smile

Ermmm - that's a Mercedes and he was talking about an Audi TT which looks like



As opposed to


ZackM

Original Poster:

269 posts

68 months

Tuesday 25th September 2018
quotequote all
Herbs said:
Ermmm - that's a Mercedes and he was talking about an Audi TT which looks like



As opposed to

Ermmm - I obviously know that's a Mercedes. There were other photos of the car in the page and one can't miss the huge star logo on the steering wheel. That's an AMG GT.

My point is that, apparently the beam across the trunk is not an exclusivity of the 350Z.

P.S. nice wide angle lens shot of the TT trunk. Makes it look bigger. My wife had a TT.

Edited by ZackM on Tuesday 25th September 11:11

Herbs

4,912 posts

228 months

Tuesday 25th September 2018
quotequote all
Sorry i'm missing something, the bar in the AMG is right behind the seats and acts like a bulkhead for large items in the boot whereas the 350Z is bang slap in the middle of the boot, whats was the point of your post relating to a TT boot with a picture of a completely different car with a bar in a completely different place?