Trade Sales

[Trevor555]

And while I'm ranting,

The auctions!!!

They are a business selling to the public.

Why are they exempt from the sale of goods act?

Because no one at trading standards/consumer direct has had the balls to stand up and ask why they can sell an unchecked car to the public, allow them to drive away?

[lord trumpton]

If you look at a lot of cars on ebay there are traders posing as private sellers to dump off ropey stock.

Often if you google their number you'll find it also features in ther contact of their trade business.

Having a car related business myself (not sales) I do know a good few independant traders who offload stock they are not happy to stand behind on a retail perspective.

[Bennyjames28]

MuscleSaloon said:

Some places only offer trade sale stuff to genuine trade buyers, and anyone can sell a car without a warranty.

As others have said, If a buyer has any doubts over a seller wording stuff in this way why would you ever consider purchasing ? Going ahead on the basis that you have consumer rights and nothing else has got to be a pretty dumb thing to do ?

Some people like to have their cake and eat it.

Get a below market trade sale car, cause havoc for the dealer when they discover a few issues with their bargain car.

These people often know consumer rights back them up regardless of the trade sale rubbish.

[Denis O]

I'm actually looking for a winter hack at the moment. Grand Cherokee, XC90 up to £2500. I'm seeing lots of spares or repair around in dealers. Takes out the risk for them I suppose.

Just need to find a genuine private sale. Not so easy as you might think.

[Trevor555]

Denis O said:

I'm actually looking for a winter hack at the moment. Grand Cherokee, XC90 up to £2500. I'm seeing lots of spares or repair around in dealers. Takes out the risk for them I suppose.

Yes it does, but they shouldn't allow you to drive it away.

They should insist you trailer it, and write all over the invoice "this vehicle must not be driven on a public road"

[MuscleSaloon]

Trevor555 said:

Denis O said:

I'm actually looking for a winter hack at the moment. Grand Cherokee, XC90 up to £2500. I'm seeing lots of spares or repair around in dealers. Takes out the risk for them I suppose.

Yes it does, but they shouldn't allow you to drive it away.

They should insist you trailer it, and write all over the invoice "this vehicle must not be driven on a public road"

Same with auctions - read the terms and conditions - in short everything sold is assumed to be unroadworthy. In reality the vehicle transfers ownership and the purchaser does what they like. Most drive off.

Private sales - all types of vehicle are changing hands potentially without any kind of checks whatsoever.

The bit I struggle with is people buying at auction or identifying themselves as trade buyers at a dealers - basically to save a few quid - and then expect to have the full backing of consumer law to fight their corner if they are not happy about something afterwards.

Consumer law has gone towards being as much about protecting the wider public from themselves as it is about rogue dealers passing on dodgy vehicles. There seems to be a notion that you can buy anything, anywhere, at any price and demand a refund if you want to reject it afterwards for any reason you can think of.

What is the answer ? A complete overhaul of the whole motor vehicle buying / selling process is needed to make any radical improvements. What happens to trade in vehicles ?

Edited by MuscleSaloon on Tuesday 1st January 11:34

[Mexman]

Trevor555 said:

And while I'm ranting,

The auctions!!!

They are a business selling to the public.

Why are they exempt from the sale of goods act?

Because no one at trading standards/consumer direct has had the balls to stand up and ask why they can sell an unchecked car to the public, allow them to drive away?

If auction cars had to be examined, inspected, repairs carried out etc, then that would drive the reserve prices up massively.
And then what happened if a fault occurs after the hammer falls?
How is an auction house like BCA going to warrant a car?
Who pays for the warranty?
Who carries out the repairs.?
Are you going to take it back to the auction house and demand that they fix it?, (Despite the fact that they would never sell in the first place due to increased price)
Get real.
Why are most cars in an auction in the first place?
I think, most people know and realise, public and trade, that buying from an auction carries it's risks, that's why they are generally cheaper via auction.
How would a dealer source stock at stupidly inflated prices if an auction house has to return them to a retail standard?
The dealer is going to want to do his own checks, services and repairs anyway.

[Trevor555]

Mexman I hear you, like yourself I've bought many hundreds of cars at auction.

We've both seen cars in there with totally bald tyres etc.

The auction invite the public to buy, and the permit them to drive away.

I'm not really talking about prices, I'm talking about safety, and morals.

I'm sure you'd agree with me, we wouldn't let someone drive away in a car with the steel sticking out from a tyre would we?

The auction does.

[MuscleSaloon]

Trevor555 said:

Mexman I hear you, like yourself I've bought many hundreds of cars at auction.

We've both seen cars in there with totally bald tyres etc.

The auction invite the public to buy, and the permit them to drive away.

I'm not really talking about prices, I'm talking about safety, and morals.

I'm sure you'd agree with me, we wouldn't let someone drive away in a car with the steel sticking out from a tyre would we?

The auction does.

Whether we like it or not prices, safety and morals are all inextricably linked.

If you've 'bought many hundreds of cars at auction' yet never driven one off of their premises and on to the public highway I'd be surprised. Yet there's no distinction between trade buyers vs public buyers whatsoever when it comes to ensuring roadworthiness. You either get it inspected, transport it or you're taking a chance.

[Trevor555]

MuscleSaloon said:

Whether we like it or not prices, safety and morals are all inextricably linked.

If you've 'bought many hundreds of cars at auction' yet never driven one off of their premises and on to the public highway I'd be surprised.

Yet there's no distinction between trade buyers vs public buyers whatsoever when it comes to ensuring roadworthiness.

You either get it inspected, transport it or you're taking a chance.

Of course I've driven them away, but I'm trade, not a public buyer.

A public buyer is not deemed a professional so not expected to be able to know if a car is roadworthy, this is why the sale of goods act exists for dealers selling to the public.

The auctions should not be able to sell an unroadworthy car to the public, other dealers cannot, so why should the auction be immune to the law?

The law is very simple, if your profession is selling cars, and you choose to sell to joe public then you must abide by the SOGA.

The auction get away with it, plenty of unroadworthy cars leaving every day, totally unchecked.

[Matt_E_Mulsion]

In this idealistic world, how does the auction house prevent joe public from buying cars from there???

[Trevor555]

Matt_E_Mulsion said:

In this idealistic world, how does the auction house prevent joe public from buying cars from there???

This is the problem, they don't.

They encourage the public to buy.

They get to sell car to the public "sold as seen"

All other car dealers in the country cannot.

[Deep Thought]

Matt_E_Mulsion said:

In this idealistic world, how does the auction house prevent joe public from buying cars from there???

Sell them to registered traders only. ie, the buyer needs to register with them and provide evidence of trading.

By no means fool proof, but would go a long way.

[POORCARDEALER]

Simply not worth selling the public trade cars, too much aggro as most want the car for trade and then are all over you when it breaks....put them in auction.

Its usually the cars you make the least money on that cause you the most aggro

[Mexman]

Trevor555 said:

MuscleSaloon said:

Whether we like it or not prices, safety and morals are all inextricably linked.

If you've 'bought many hundreds of cars at auction' yet never driven one off of their premises and on to the public highway I'd be surprised.

Yet there's no distinction between trade buyers vs public buyers whatsoever when it comes to ensuring roadworthiness.

You either get it inspected, transport it or you're taking a chance.

Of course I've driven them away, but I'm trade, not a public buyer.

A public buyer is not deemed a professional so not expected to be able to know if a car is roadworthy, this is why the sale of goods act exists for dealers selling to the public.

The auctions should not be able to sell an unroadworthy car to the public, other dealers cannot, so why should the auction be immune to the law?

The law is very simple, if your profession is selling cars, and you choose to sell to joe public then you must abide by the SOGA.

The auction get away with it, plenty of unroadworthy cars leaving every day, totally unchecked.

Then presumably the auction hall would just become one big retail car showroom, no?

[Trevor555]

Mexman said:

Then presumably the auction hall would just become one big retail car showroom, no?

It is in a way isn't it?

They happily let the public peruse their stock online, and come along and buy their cars.

The difference between us and them is that they get away with selling unroadworthy cars.

Auctions should be "trade only" if they are going to sell stuff "sold as seen" and unchecked for roadworthyness.

In all my time in the motor trade I can't believe they've got away with it.

Haven't you wondered why we cant buy stock at auctions anymore?

Last few years everything that's nice and clean makes well into book.

[andymc]

Trevor555 said:

Mexman I hear you, like yourself I've bought many hundreds of cars at auction.

We've both seen cars in there with totally bald tyres etc.

The auction invite the public to buy, and the permit them to drive away.

I'm not really talking about prices, I'm talking about safety, and morals.

I'm sure you'd agree with me, we wouldn't let someone drive away in a car with the steel sticking out from a tyre would we?

The auction does.

the privates at auction are usually grasping greedy s who want the best of everything

[MuscleSaloon]

Trevor555 said:

Mexman said:

Then presumably the auction hall would just become one big retail car showroom, no?

It is in a way isn't it?

They happily let the public peruse their stock online, and come along and buy their cars.

The difference between us and them is that they get away with selling unroadworthy cars.

Auctions should be "trade only" if they are going to sell stuff "sold as seen" and unchecked for roadworthyness.

In all my time in the motor trade I can't believe they've got away with it.

Haven't you wondered why we cant buy stock at auctions anymore?

Last few years everything that's nice and clean makes well into book.

Sure there is a lack of regulation. Anything decent at auction makes strong money due to high demand. I can't see changes any time soon especially ones that would exclude half the bidders. Auctions in the main are making a fortune so they're happy. Anyone entering cars are on to a good thing so they're not complaining either. Its become virtually impossible to buy trade directly out of main dealers while they're sticking them to auction and getting strong results.

[rocknrollrich]

Pistonheader101 said:

Carswithnoreservereading on eBay is trade sale to customers.
Some good bargains to be had and their disclaimer is quite clear and would probably hold up in court.

I won an ebay auction with them a few years back. Went down to pick the car up. They told me to take it for a test drive for up to an hour and go from there. I drove down the m4, got it up to temperature and then had to pull into the services to give it some juice as it was perilously low. As soon as I stopped, the radiator emptied itself, I put a couple of quid petrol in, filled it with water, drove it back, explained what happened, they offered to knock some money off or I could walk away. I like the way they do business. I have bought a couple of cars through them, bargains to be had, but be careful. They are very good, treat you fairly and tell you if you're not happy you can walk away from the deal with no comeback. Most of the people who buy from their are traders as they're always sat in the waiting room with their trade plates, knowing they've got a bargain that needs a little bit of work to make perfect.

[hyphen]

rocknrollrich said:

Pistonheader101 said:

Carswithnoreservereading on eBay is trade sale to customers.
Some good bargains to be had and their disclaimer is quite clear and would probably hold up in court.

I won an ebay auction with them a few years back. Went down to pick the car up. They told me to take it for a test drive for up to an hour and go from there. I drove down the m4, got it up to temperature and then had to pull into the services to give it some juice as it was perilously low. As soon as I stopped, the radiator emptied itself, I put a couple of quid petrol in, filled it with water, drove it back, explained what happened, they offered to knock some money off or I could walk away. I like the way they do business. I have bought a couple of cars through them, bargains to be had, but be careful. They are very good, treat you fairly and tell you if you're not happy you can walk away from the deal with no comeback. Most of the people who buy from their are traders as they're always sat in the waiting room with their trade plates, knowing they've got a bargain that needs a little bit of work to make perfect.

Where do they get their stock from?