Considering a GT6 mk3

[craigjm]

The resto-mod on my Jaguar XJC is coming to an end this summer. I may be interested in picking up a GT6 mk3 as my next project. Couple of questions....

What are the common issues? Rust locations etc

What decent modifications are available for the engine, gearbox, suspension, brakes etc?

[Yertis]

craigjm said:

The resto-mod on my Jaguar XJC is coming to an end this summer. I may be interested in picking up a GT6 mk3 as my next project. Couple of questions....

What are the common issues? Rust locations etc

Rust = everywhere – sills, floors, tailgate, windscreen frame, lower front wings, rear wings. Top rails of chassis, where you can't see.

Engine = usual Triumph six – thrust bearings, rocker shaft.

Transmission = not really up to the job

Brakes = not a problem

Suspension = early mark 3 you have your rotoflex, good but you also have the issue of rotoflex. Later you have swing-spring which is trouble free. Not sure how much power you could put through either but if you're doing the resto-mod thing I suppose you'd stick in a complete new system.

craigjm said:

What decent modifications are available for the engine, gearbox, suspension, brakes etc?

I'd join the GT6 FaceBook group. Taking the engine up to 2.5L is easy but I think the general consensus is that if you change anything to make it go faster then everything else is either on or beyond its limits. Everything is limited by room (or lack thereof), and the way the GT6 is constructed means everything is a tight fit – even a Jubilee clip on the wrong way will dent the bonnet.

That said, everything is possible. They're lovely cars and of all the cars I've had it's the only one I have a picture of on my desk, I'd love to restore one again.

[craigjm]

Thanks for that. When I first got the Jag the restorer said “they rust anywhere between the front bumper and the rear bumper” guess these are the same

Jigsaw racing appear to do a lot of modifications for them. Anyone used them?

[hilly10]

It will be great if you do a GT6 it’s another back on the road, beautiful looking car

[tapkaJohnD]

The media message about small chassis Triumphs and their swing axle suspension being a death trap waiting at every corner was a vast over exaggeration. Of course a swing axle will suffer 'jack-up' if pushed too fast into a corner, or as the journalists did for the camera, lifted off mid corner. But there are other cars that have swing axles and don't get this sort of nonsense, Mercedes 300SL gull wing for one. And the Rotaflex, and then swing spring mods (late GT6 and Spitfire) made jack-up even in the hands of a motoring journalist, almost impossible.

Yes, if raced, the half shafts suffer from a design fault that snaps them at a stress concentrator where the diameter was narrowed at the hub, but that is IF RACED. They don't do that on the road. A well-rebuilt gearbox and diff will withstand even 2.5L almost indefinitely.

The TSSC is the traditional club for GT6 owners. If you are a modifier and performance seeker, the Sideways Technologies may be more your style.
Good lusk and enjoy your GT6!
John

[Gemaeden]

The Mercedes Gullwing had an additional transverse coil spring that prevented jack up.

[Skyedriver]

tapkaJohnD said:

The media message about small chassis Triumphs and their swing axle suspension being a death trap waiting at every corner was a vast over exaggeration.
John

Yes, in their day the roads or rather the hedgerows were littered with Heralds, Vitesses, Spitfires and GT6s that had gone in backwards. somedays there was hardly space for the Porsche and BMW's to do the same......
In reality, I never saw one Triumph off the road due to the rear situation. And that I think includes a mate who tried to Rally a Vitesse.

Back long before I knew her, my wife hankered after a GT6, in blue, actually got to the point of viewing it I think but didn't end up with it. Would be nice to find one now but I wonder if the low down driving position would suit her now and would the two dogs fit in the back....

[tapkaJohnD]

Yes, I know that about the 300SL, Gemaeden, but I'm a Triumphead and get fed up when every time one is mentioned, people like Yertis trot out all the tired old retread allegations, clearly from no real knowledge of Triumphs.
Just trying to get a balanced view! Thanks for the support Skyedriver!

craigjm, as you can see, Triumphworld and it's rivals are as riven with disputes as any. I don't imagine Jaguars are any different.

John

Edited by tapkaJohnD on Tuesday 22 January 09:59

[Yertis]

tapkaJohnD said:

people like Yertis trot out all the tired old retread allegations, clearly from no real knowledge of Triumphs.

Actually, people not like Yertis...

How long do you think you need to own, maintain and restore a Triumph in order to get this real knowledge? I've had a TR6 for 30-odd years and for five years ran a late GT6 Mk3 as my daily, so I'm pretty confident in my experience with those models and in particular what tends to go wrong or wear out.

What, in my post above, do you disagree with? You certainly won't find any criticism of the swing-axle or swing-spring suspension, because I've never driven the former, never had any difficulties with the latter, and so made no reference to such problems in my post. You introduced the subject of swing-axle suspension, which is anyway irrelevant on this thread because the OP specifically requested info on the Mk3 GT6 which (as you should know) was fitted with Rotoflex and, on later models, swing-spring systems.

Edited by Yertis on Tuesday 22 January 10:48

[aeropilot]

Yertis said:

Everything is limited by room (or lack thereof), and the way the GT6 is constructed means everything is a tight fit – even a Jubilee clip on the wrong way will dent the bonnet.

That's my overriding memory of an ex-work collegue and discussions about his GT6. This was back in the early 80's, and his was a Mk2, (G reg from memory), and it was mint, and highly modified. He was then, a late middle aged and very skilled engineer and fabricator, and the car had lots of unique mods for that era, including recessed headlights behind S1 E-Type style perpex covers, a 2.5L engine running triple Webers and lots of SAH bits, widened OEM style steels, and a self fabricated Kamm style rear end. The car looked like a mini-GTO in some ways.

From memory he retired around 1990-ish and still owned it then, and I've often wondered if the car still exists given the condition it was in.

[craigjm]

I think they look much nicer than etypes and kind of make me think of a 1970s Cayman. I much prefer the rear on the mk3 but I do also prefer the front of the mk1. Maybe I will do a mash up

Sounds like it’s all similar issues to the Jag then which isn’t surprising and lots of upgrades available. I’ve seen them with 2.5 engines and 5 speed boxes.

[Yertis]

craigjm said:

I think they look much nicer than etypes and kind of make me think of a 1970s Cayman. I much prefer the rear on the mk3 but I do also prefer the front of the mk1. Maybe I will do a mash up

Sounds like it’s all similar issues to the Jag then which isn’t surprising and lots of upgrades available. I’ve seen them with 2.5 engines and 5 speed boxes.

I think I'd do the same with the 2.5.

[craigjm]

Yertis said:

craigjm said:

I think they look much nicer than etypes and kind of make me think of a 1970s Cayman. I much prefer the rear on the mk3 but I do also prefer the front of the mk1. Maybe I will do a mash up

Sounds like it’s all similar issues to the Jag then which isn’t surprising and lots of upgrades available. I’ve seen them with 2.5 engines and 5 speed boxes.

I think I'd do the same with the 2.5.

I’m thinking -

Mk3 car with a mk1 bonnet
2.5 engine with best performance upgrades
5 speed gearbox
Upgrades suspension, brakes and polybush everything
Paint the car in a dark purple metallic
Xenon headlights and led lighting elsewhere
Black and silver halibrand wheels
Black leather interior with more modern sports seats. Black carpets etc. Purple stitching and GT6 logo in headrests in purple
Reworked dashboard with two bespoke black gauges with white text with tach in speedo and all the others in one gauge
Black push switches for everything similar to those I’ve used in my Jag
As much modern kit as possible, electric windows, central locking etc
Aluminium dashboard
7 inch double din screen in the centre where the gauges sit as standard
Decent hifi kit
Best ventilation that will fit. Maybe a small vintage air aircon setup if I can fit it in
Sports exhaust

So basically try and create a Porsche Cayman 1970 style

I must be mad after all of the pain of the Jag but by the summer when that’s ready I will be ready for something else

Any other ideas? This is a no go zone for purists much like the Jag

[Yertis]

I'll reply inline, as it's lunch time

craigjm said:

I’m thinking -

Mk3 car with a mk1 bonnet I think this might not be as straightforward as it sounds, but of course entirely possible. Personally I think the Mk3 front suits the Mk 3 back well
2.5 engine with best performance upgrades Balance, lighten and EFi. The Mk2/early Mk3 head is apparently a better basis for tuning
5 speed gearbox Tick!
Upgrades suspension, brakes and polybush everything Tick! Did this on mine and handling was transformed.
Paint the car in a dark purple metallic Tick!
Xenon headlights and led lighting elsewhere Can you get Xenons in this size?
Black and silver halibrand wheels Tick!
Black leather interior with more modern sports seats. Black carpets etc. Purple stitching and GT6 logo in headrests in purple Your problem here would be, I suspect, the space issue I mentioned.
Reworked dashboard with two bespoke black gauges with white text with tach in speedo and all the others in one gauge Your call, from memoryI think there are only four gauges anyway.
Black push switches for everything similar to those I’ve used in my Jag
As much modern kit as possible, electric windows, central locking etc I'll let you discover whether or not that's possible!
Aluminium dashboard Easy obviously
7 inch double din screen in the centre where the gauges sit as standard No idea about this!
Decent hifi kit Finding space for the speakers will be the fun bit. I spent ages trying to figure out a decent set-up on the (bigger) TR and eventually gave up.
Best ventilation that will fit. Maybe a small vintage air aircon setup if I can fit it in Best idea yet because the GT6 can cook you in the summer!
Sports exhaust The back bit is easy and makes it sound lovely. I think making a decent extractor manifold is problematic due to space but having said I recall seeing someone with such a system on the FB group. Pretty sure a 6>1 as fitted to the TRs won't fit but happy to be proved wrong.

So basically try and create a Porsche Cayman 1970 style

I must be mad after all of the pain of the Jag but by the summer when that’s ready I will be ready for something else

Any other ideas? This is a no go zone for purists much like the Jag

My only comments are that I think it would be a shame to muck around with the exterior because a Mark 1 looks good as a Mark 1 and a Mark 3 looks good as a Mark 3, but not chopped about. Also, the Cayman will still be the better car

There are often resto-moddy GT6s on FleaBay, probably a better starting point than a more original car.

[hilly10]

craigjm said:

I think they look much nicer than etypes and kind of make me think of a 1970s Cayman..

I am glad someone else can see the Cayman resemblance, been saying that since the Cayman was launched

[craigjm]

Yertis said:

My only comments are that I think it would be a shame to muck around with the exterior because a Mark 1 looks good as a Mark 1 and a Mark 3 looks good as a Mark 3, but not chopped about. Also, the Cayman will still be the better car

There are often resto-moddy GT6s on FleaBay, probably a better starting point than a more original car.

Thanks for the comments. I agree with most of it and like you say where there is a will there is a way. Mk3 car is definitely the one for me and I would probably leave the front alone.

I know what you’re saying about space. Appropriate seats required not to overpower it. Seem some great sports seats designed for the original mini that might do the job

My audio and tech guy who has done the XJC can work wonders so I’m sure it’s all doable. The modern centre screen for instance is only 10mm thick its double din size but no depth. Basically smaller version of the huge thing in the XJC

I’ve already had a Cayman S from new a few years ago so scratched that itch and nothing modern really interests me at the moment.

The Jag whilst fast and capable will be a bit big for hustling down country lanes

[eldar]

craigjm said:

I’m thinking -

Mk3 car with a mk1 bonnet
2.5 engine with best performance upgrades
5 speed gearbox
Upgrades suspension, brakes and polybush everything
Paint the car in a dark purple metallic
Xenon headlights and led lighting elsewhere
Black and silver halibrand wheels
Black leather interior with more modern sports seats. Black carpets etc. Purple stitching and GT6 logo in headrests in purple
Reworked dashboard with two bespoke black gauges with white text with tach in speedo and all the others in one gauge
Black push switches for everything similar to those I’ve used in my Jag
As much modern kit as possible, electric windows, central locking etc
Aluminium dashboard
7 inch double din screen in the centre where the gauges sit as standard
Decent hifi kit
Best ventilation that will fit. Maybe a small vintage air aircon setup if I can fit it in
Sports exhaust

So basically try and create a Porsche Cayman 1970 style

I must be mad after all of the pain of the Jag but by the summer when that’s ready I will be ready for something else

Any other ideas? This is a no go zone for purists much like the Jag

Keep the 4 speed box and add an overdrive unit - 6 speed box (or 7 if you let O/D operate in 2nd..)

[craigjm]

hilly10 said:

craigjm said:

I think they look much nicer than etypes and kind of make me think of a 1970s Cayman..

I am glad someone else can see the Cayman resemblance, been saying that since the Cayman was launched

Yeah I think especially with the mk3 if the rear side window didn’t have that slight kink in it they could pretty much be related. Much nicer than the e type in my opinion

[P5BNij]

From your list a few posts up Craig I can picture exactly what the car will look like, it sounds fantastic, the finishing 'final' touch will be down to the choice of number plate style, if it were mine I'd go for the raised black digit on reflective yellow and white backing plates, or possibly the Perspex engraved 'mirrorline' black and silver type. Sounds picky but the font you choose will make a hell of a difference to the overall look.

The dark metallic purple you fancy, do you have anything particular in mind...? The shade I chose for my '68 Cooper S was 'Barossa', it's a modern Range Rover colour which resembles the period one used on Radford and Wood & Pickett coachbuilt Minis back in the '60s and '70s, it looks almost black in dull light but really comes alive in the sunshine.

[craigjm]

I remember you showing me the mini p5b. The colour I have in mind is a Ford colour



The number plate will be the same engraved mirror line black and silver like on the Jag.

I think the two cars would sit nicely alongside each other