Planning Nightmare

Author
Discussion

3M

Original Poster:

5 posts

62 months

Saturday 26th January 2019
quotequote all
A decade ago I moved into a village my partner and I love. Now with a growing family we're looking to extend. In doing so we had a number of drawings completed and we chose the one which would have the least impact on our neighbours - a two storey 2.5m extension in the middle of our plot (low pitch) - 4m from our neighbours on each side. The extension would extend just 60cm beyond the end of our neighbours single-storey extension (as I said 4m away). We provided neighbours with the plans and then later discussed them ahead of submission - we had their full blessing.

Having submitted the plans I was approached in the garden by one neighbour who said they had changed their minds. Light through a side window of their extension which peaks over the top of our 1.8m fence would be blocked - they wanted us not to extend (the actual comment was put the extension on the other neighbours side...). I spoke to the architect and I reassured the neighbour we'd find a solution - we almost stopped planning there and then, instead choosing to make changes after a verdict (in any direction).

Since then I've been dragged into a village meeting where strips were literally torn off me - wild shaking of paper by people who had no right to be there or even lived in the village. My partner has been subjected to verbal abuse outside the local school. We've currently more objections than anything else in the district...everything referencing our poor neighbours, the fact they're 5th generation villagers, lived there for 40 years and that our house shouldn't increase in size quoting any and every planning law people can find. One villager has told us we'll never get any plans through and some (everyone of these are retired people with nothing else to do) have actively gone around the village asking for more objections.

Despite the above I've continued to reassure and have made efforts to sit down with objectors asking them what they wish to see instead. However, to say we feel unwelcome here is an understatement. No one cares we've kids in a building without modern electrics, plumbing, insulation or reliable boiler - the fact we have asbestos almost everywhere - that we've just 15 square meters of living space for a family of four.

I'd be really interested to hear what the PH collective would do in our situation. We've done everything we can to be considerate but had no consideration back. I'm not an ahole but suspect I've been too nice. Should I treat them with the same contempt? Should I not care and just build the extension we need (not the one we went to planning with)?

Equus

16,770 posts

100 months

Saturday 26th January 2019
quotequote all
3M said:
I'm not an ahole but suspect I've been too nice.
You have no obligation to engage with your neighbours, and certainly no obligation to engage with the Parish Council.

It is not necessarily the end of the world if either/both submit an objection to your application. It doesn't necessarily mean that the Planning Officer will take any notice of them.

It's the Planning Officer you need to be engaging with, and who effectively should be acting as an intermediary between you and any consultees (public or otherwise). Wait until the Statutory Consultation period is up (4 weeks from registration of the application) then give the Planning Officer a polite call to seek their views and to see if they have any significant concerns.

Any further contact from your neighbour or the Parish, I'd be inclined to smile politely and say 'it's now in the hands of the Planning Department; if you have any issues, you need to speak to them'.

I've had applications for major housing developments that have attracted literally hundreds of public objections; I've had death threats, and I had a colleague who had eggs and flour thrown at him at a Planning Committee meeting. None of these things prevented an approval.

Such a level of resistance is unusual to a simple domestic extension application, however, so I'd be interested to know why everybody is really getting so wound up.

If you require further professional support (I run a combined Planning and Architectural Design consultancy), contact me via my profile.

3M

Original Poster:

5 posts

62 months

Saturday 26th January 2019
quotequote all
Thank you for the reply - I will take your advice onboard.

Equus said:
If you require further professional support (I run a combined Planning and Architectural Design consultancy), contact me via my profile.
We're going to see what the verdict is but I will certainly keep you in mind - a second professional opinion on our plans would be very useful. thumbup

Equus

16,770 posts

100 months

Saturday 26th January 2019
quotequote all
Try not to let it get as far as a refusal, if you can - talk to the Planning Case Officer after the 4 week consultation period is up, and try to stay in the loop with them... if it starts to look like a refusal, it may be better to withdraw the application and rethink it.

jas xjr

11,309 posts

238 months

Saturday 26th January 2019
quotequote all
Spread rumours that if you do not get planning permission,you will rent the house to asylum seekers. Or even me smile
Seriously, good luck,hope it works out for you

3M

Original Poster:

5 posts

62 months

Saturday 26th January 2019
quotequote all
Equus said:
Try not to let it get as far as a refusal, if you can - talk to the Planning Case Officer after the 4 week consultation period is up, and try to stay in the loop with them... if it starts to look like a refusal, it may be better to withdraw the application and rethink it.
I'll certainly do this - is this as soon as comments close for the public?

jas xjr said:
Spread rumours that if you do not get planning permission,you will rent the house to asylum seekers. Or even me smile
Seriously, good luck,hope it works out for you
Ha ha, I wouldn't wish that on asylum seekers. hehe Thank you for the kind words, appreciated.

Equus

16,770 posts

100 months

Saturday 26th January 2019
quotequote all
3M said:
is this as soon as comments close for the public?
Yes.

Most Planners don't even start looking at an application until they've got all the comments back (though 'professional' comments from statutory consultees like Highways carry much more weight than public comments or parish council busybodies), but you need to start communicating with them as soon as you can after that, and stay in touch without making a nuisance of yourself, to nip any issues in the bud.

3M

Original Poster:

5 posts

62 months

Saturday 26th January 2019
quotequote all
Equus said:
Yes.

Most Planners don't even start looking at an application until they've got all the comments back (though 'professional' comments from statutory consultees like Highways carry much more weight than public comments or parish council busybodies), but you need to start communicating with them as soon as you can after that, and stay in touch without making a nuisance of yourself, to nip any issues in the bud.
Again, thank you. thumbup

PhilboSE

4,323 posts

225 months

Saturday 26th January 2019
quotequote all
Equus is the expert here but just to reinforce what he says:
- the default position of the planning department will be to grant permission
- neighbour objections count for absolutely nothing unless they address specific points of local planning policy

Even then, the planning department are used to neighbours objecting on immaterial grounds. If you are confident your position does not contravene planning policies then you should have nothing to fear.

My experience was a bit like yours, I put in for a conservative extension, neighbour objected on every single ground. Planning officer came around, said "I don't see what he's complaining about" and left within about 5 minutes.

andye30m3

3,452 posts

253 months

Monday 28th January 2019
quotequote all
Equus said:
Try not to let it get as far as a refusal, if you can - talk to the Planning Case Officer after the 4 week consultation period is up, and try to stay in the loop with them... if it starts to look like a refusal, it may be better to withdraw the application and rethink it.
I should really no the answer to this (I tend to work on the construction side rather than planning) but why would you advise to withdraw rather than get the refusal?

In the past I've had refusals on extensions but could then quite quickly make the changes to address the reasons for refusal and re-submit.

I ask as I've recently bought a bungalow and put in for planning for a second one in the garden, which is due for determination in a couple of weeks, had a few comments from the town council and 1 neighbor, nothing major and most of the comments from the town council are completely incorrect.

Equus

16,770 posts

100 months

Monday 28th January 2019
quotequote all
andye30m3 said:
I should really no the answer to this (I tend to work on the construction side rather than planning) but why would you advise to withdraw rather than get the refusal?
It's not an absolute rule (it loses you your 'free go', which counts against it), but in general it's better not to record a refusal on the 'Planning history' of the site.

One of the things that goes into the Officer's report on any new application is the history of previous applications and - particularly if it ends up at Committee - the first thing anyone looking at a new proposal will see is the past refusal, and it may influence them to refuse again.

Also, when an Officer (or Committee) refuses an application, they tend to throw as many reasons for refusal at it as they possibly can, to make that refusal as robust as possible at appeal. Since your revised application will need to demonstrably overcome every reason for refusal previously given, you'll find yourself dealing with some that might have been 'makeweight' stuff, to pad it out a bit, which the officer wouldn't bother with if they were faced with an application they were broadly happy with on the important stuff.

Rangeroverover

1,522 posts

110 months

Monday 28th January 2019
quotequote all
I wouldn't worry too much, I've seen this many times in small villages with plenty of people with not much going on in their lives jumping on a bandwagom. Ayear or two after you have built your extension nobody will remember what all the fuss was about. Smile sweetly and don't fall out to a terminal level with neighbours and all will be forgotten remember BANANA is the new NIMBY

Build Absolutely Nothing Anywhere Near Anyone

Equus said:
You have no obligation to engage with your neighbours, and certainly no obligation to engage with the Parish Council.

It is not necessarily the end of the world if either/both submit an objection to your application. It doesn't necessarily mean that the Planning Officer will take any notice of them.

It's the Planning Officer you need to be engaging with, and who effectively should be acting as an intermediary between you and any consultees (public or otherwise). Wait until the Statutory Consultation period is up (4 weeks from registration of the application) then give the Planning Officer a polite call to seek their views and to see if they have any significant concerns.

Any further contact from your neighbour or the Parish, I'd be inclined to smile politely and say 'it's now in the hands of the Planning Department; if you have any issues, you need to speak to them'.

I've had applications for major housing developments that have attracted literally hundreds of public objections; I've had death threats, and I had a colleague who had eggs and flour thrown at him at a Planning Committee meeting. None of these things prevented an approval.

Such a level of resistance is unusual to a simple domestic extension application, however, so I'd be interested to know why everybody is really getting so wound up.

If you require further professional support (I run a combined Planning and Architectural Design consultancy), contact me via my profile.

GreatGranny

9,097 posts

225 months

Monday 28th January 2019
quotequote all
This is why we moved out of a village last year.

God, there were some absolute wierdos living there.

Too many people with nothing to do but worry/object about what other people are doing.

We are now in the nearby town which still has it's fair share of wierdos but the concentration if much lower :-)

I would move back to a city if it wasn't for the kids and schooling.

PositronicRay

26,959 posts

182 months

Monday 28th January 2019
quotequote all
GreatGranny said:
This is why we moved out of a village last year.

God, there were some absolute wierdos living there.

Too many people with nothing to do but worry/object about what other people are doing.

We are now in the nearby town which still has it's fair share of wierdos but the concentration if much lower :-)

I would move back to a city if it wasn't for the kids and schooling.
I think the % of weirdos is the same all over, you just notice it more in a village.

ColinM50

2,630 posts

174 months

Monday 28th January 2019
quotequote all
I sit on our district council's development management committee as well as our town's council planning committee which is a consultee to the district council. One avenue that gets all planning committee members backs up is when an objector accuses us of taking backhanders. We had one recently where it was touch and go whether we'd approve or reject a planning application and I know from discussions after the vote, that I, and at least two other councillors, were on the verge of rejecting the application. Until we had a very well spoken parish councillor as an objector call us all a bunch of lying effers, yes she used that word, she accused us of all being bent and on the take in those wrods. At that point I know three of us voted for it more out of outrage than anything else.

Now I'm not for one moment that you persuade a friend to be an objector and abuse the planners but it might work. Not ethical but.................

You should also bear in mind that an awful lot of planning (and other) councillors are just ordinary people with no particular expertise but just want to do what's right for their community. I'd say to anybody in the OP's position to find out which planning officer is, or will be, handling his application and go and see him/her and ask their opinion of what they'd find acceptable before a decision is made.

paulrockliffe

15,639 posts

226 months

Monday 28th January 2019
quotequote all
ColinM50 said:
I know from discussions after the vote, that I, and at least two other councillors, were on the verge of rejecting the application. Until we had a very well spoken parish councillor as an objector call us all a bunch of lying effers.
It's all OK, they don't take bribes, they just make decisions based on emotion rather than fact and the law.

Staggering.

steve2

1,771 posts

217 months

Monday 28th January 2019
quotequote all
Not all parish councillors are nimbys, in fact a lot of villagers hate our parish council because they ate the fact that we judge each planning application on merit and planning law, if application meets planning law we will recommend approval, although our view carry’s no legal presence.
Even we as parish councillors are told we must be taking bribes.
I joined as a councillor to help keep our village a nice place to live,
In the op Ashe I would say stuff the lot of them and apply for as big extension as I could et away with, they will soon forget about it.

Angpozzuto

958 posts

108 months

Monday 28th January 2019
quotequote all
I agree it's nice to be nice to people but when abuse starts being given especially to my wife bkss to being nice, tell them all to get fked

blueg33

35,590 posts

223 months

Monday 28th January 2019
quotequote all
ColinM50 said:
I sit on our district council's development management committee as well as our town's council planning committee which is a consultee to the district council. One avenue that gets all planning committee members backs up is when an objector accuses us of taking backhanders. We had one recently where it was touch and go whether we'd approve or reject a planning application and I know from discussions after the vote, that I, and at least two other councillors, were on the verge of rejecting the application. Until we had a very well spoken parish councillor as an objector call us all a bunch of lying effers, yes she used that word, she accused us of all being bent and on the take in those wrods. At that point I know three of us voted for it more out of outrage than anything else.

Now I'm not for one moment that you persuade a friend to be an objector and abuse the planners but it might work. Not ethical but.................

You should also bear in mind that an awful lot of planning (and other) councillors are just ordinary people with no particular expertise but just want to do what's right for their community. I'd say to anybody in the OP's position to find out which planning officer is, or will be, handling his application and go and see him/her and ask their opinion of what they'd find acceptable before a decision is made.
I am sorry but this post just demonstrates the problem. Don’t base your decision on the personality of an objector, FFS, test the application against the policies like you are supposed to. I can’t believe that you are prepared to admit on an open forum that you voted on an application because you didn’t like an objector.

There is no defence for what you did.


Edited by blueg33 on Tuesday 29th January 06:29

blueg33

35,590 posts

223 months

Monday 28th January 2019
quotequote all
ColinM50 said:
I sit on our district council's development management committee as well as our town's council planning committee which is a consultee to the district council. One avenue that gets all planning committee members backs up is when an objector accuses us of taking backhanders. We had one recently where it was touch and go whether we'd approve or reject a planning application and I know from discussions after the vote, that I, and at least two other councillors, were on the verge of rejecting the application. Until we had a very well spoken parish councillor as an objector call us all a bunch of lying effers, yes she used that word, she accused us of all being bent and on the take in those wrods. At that point I know three of us voted for it more out of outrage than anything else.

Now I'm not for one moment that you persuade a friend to be an objector and abuse the planners but it might work. Not ethical but.................

You should also bear in mind that an awful lot of planning (and other) councillors are just ordinary people with no particular expertise but just want to do what's right for their community. I'd say to anybody in the OP's position to find out which planning officer is, or will be, handling his application and go and see him/her and ask their opinion of what they'd find acceptable before a decision is made.
I am sorry but this post just demonstrates the problem. Don’t base your decision on the personality of an objector, FFS, test the application against the policies like you are supposed to. I can’t believe that you are prepared to admit on an open forum that you voted on an application because you didn’t like an objector.

There is no defence for what you did.


Edited by blueg33 on Tuesday 29th January 06:30