Diesel for low miles?

Diesel for low miles?

Author
Discussion

roger.mellie

Original Poster:

4,640 posts

51 months

Sunday 19th January 2020
quotequote all
I’m on the lookout for a mid-large size SUV or estate (I need a large boot) and I’m getting fed up looking for a petrol model. Diesels massively outnumber petrols for this type of car. Most petrols that are available have engines that I’d consider underpowered on a large car and are usually lower trim levels.

I’m in Ireland and diesel is still king here. The availability of well specced larger petrol engined models is very thin. Especially since I want an automatic. Resale is also a concern for the same reason.

My annual mileage is low enough that mpg is not a concern. I do about 6k a year. That’s regular short drives of about 3 miles each way, a regular fortnightly drive of about 80 miles and a semi regular monthly drive of about 200 miles.

Would the above driving profile lead to problems with a diesel?

I know petrol makes more sense and it is by a long way still my preference, but if diesel was a viable option it would make the search a lot easier. I haven’t ruled out hybrids or EVs either but haven’t seen any that would suit me in my price range and they often have worse boot space than the non hybrid equivalent.

For the first time in my life I’m seriously considering leasing but again large higher trim level petrols seem to cost disproportionately more than the diesel equivalent, I’m assuming that’s due to worse depreciation.

TL;DR is a regular fortnightly drive of 80 miles enough to get over the problems of using a diesel for daily short trips?

Belle427

8,864 posts

232 months

Sunday 19th January 2020
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It's hard to say really, we run our Xtrail in a similar fashion, mainly shorter trips and gets a longish run now and again and in 18 months touch wood we have not had a problem.
A work colleague has a Tdi Audi TT and he does have issues if he spends a week or two pottering around town.

Venisonpie

3,231 posts

81 months

Sunday 19th January 2020
quotequote all
roger.mellie said:
I’m on the lookout for a mid-large size SUV or estate (I need a large boot) and I’m getting fed up looking for a petrol model. Diesels massively outnumber petrols for this type of car. Most petrols that are available have engines that I’d consider underpowered on a large car and are usually lower trim levels.

I’m in Ireland and diesel is still king here. The availability of well specced larger petrol engined models is very thin. Especially since I want an automatic. Resale is also a concern for the same reason.

My annual mileage is low enough that mpg is not a concern. I do about 6k a year. That’s regular short drives of about 3 miles each way, a regular fortnightly drive of about 80 miles and a semi regular monthly drive of about 200 miles.

Would the above driving profile lead to problems with a diesel?

I know petrol makes more sense and it is by a long way still my preference, but if diesel was a viable option it would make the search a lot easier. I haven’t ruled out hybrids or EVs either but haven’t seen any that would suit me in my price range and they often have worse boot space than the non hybrid equivalent.

For the first time in my life I’m seriously considering leasing but again large higher trim level petrols seem to cost disproportionately more than the diesel equivalent, I’m assuming that’s due to worse depreciation.

TL;DR is a regular fortnightly drive of 80 miles enough to get over the problems of using a diesel for daily short trips?
I run a fleet of 350 vehicles, all bar 12 are diesel. We have a small number of DPF issues with vehicles operating in urban environments but not enough to get excited about. I think you'll be fine and to be sure exercise the car hard every fortnight!

ZX10R NIN

27,494 posts

124 months

Sunday 19th January 2020
quotequote all
roger.mellie said:
I’m on the lookout for a mid-large size SUV or estate (I need a large boot) and I’m getting fed up looking for a petrol model. Diesels massively outnumber petrols for this type of car. Most petrols that are available have engines that I’d consider underpowered on a large car and are usually lower trim levels.

I’m in Ireland and diesel is still king here. The availability of well specced larger petrol engined models is very thin. Especially since I want an automatic. Resale is also a concern for the same reason.

My annual mileage is low enough that mpg is not a concern. I do about 6k a year. That’s regular short drives of about 3 miles each way, a regular fortnightly drive of about 80 miles and a semi regular monthly drive of about 200 miles.

Would the above driving profile lead to problems with a diesel?

I know petrol makes more sense and it is by a long way still my preference, but if diesel was a viable option it would make the search a lot easier. I haven’t ruled out hybrids or EVs either but haven’t seen any that would suit me in my price range and they often have worse boot space than the non hybrid equivalent.

For the first time in my life I’m seriously considering leasing but again large higher trim level petrols seem to cost disproportionately more than the diesel equivalent, I’m assuming that’s due to worse depreciation.

TL;DR is a regular fortnightly drive of 80 miles enough to get over the problems of using a diesel for daily short trips?
If you're happy to fly over to the UK then your options open up & the prices are more competitive how much were you looking to spend?

Venisonpie

3,231 posts

81 months

Sunday 19th January 2020
quotequote all
ZX10R NIN said:
If you're happy to fly over to the UK then your options open up & the prices are more competitive how much were you looking to spend?
But do check the import duty though. We did a similar exercise for the Irish operation recently and once you add shipping costs we found the local market was equal to the English option. Agree on more choice though.

roger.mellie

Original Poster:

4,640 posts

51 months

Monday 20th January 2020
quotequote all
Belle427 said:
It's hard to say really, we run our Xtrail in a similar fashion, mainly shorter trips and gets a longish run now and again and in 18 months touch wood we have not had a problem.
A work colleague has a Tdi Audi TT and he does have issues if he spends a week or two pottering around town.
Venisonpie said:
I run a fleet of 350 vehicles, all bar 12 are diesel. We have a small number of DPF issues with vehicles operating in urban environments but not enough to get excited about. I think you'll be fine and to be sure exercise the car hard every fortnight!
Thanks, it sounds like a diesel isn't out of the question then. I'd still prefer a petrol but suspect that a diesel is more likely.

Venisonpie said:
ZX10R NIN said:
If you're happy to fly over to the UK then your options open up & the prices are more competitive how much were you looking to spend?
But do check the import duty though. We did a similar exercise for the Irish operation recently and once you add shipping costs we found the local market was equal to the English option. Agree on more choice though.
I've considered that too, I agree the difference in choice is stark. But the additional effort, paperwork and costs put me off. My preferred budget was initially 12k but scope creep has pushed me up to 15K now smile.

VR99

1,259 posts

62 months

Monday 20th January 2020
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It seems to be the case that some diesel engines are better than others at taking abuse from mainly short stop start journeys and overall lower annual mileages.
The Honda 2.2 diesel engines (found in the CRV?) seem to be well received and not seen much about dpf related issues but I'm well aware that a lot of VAG group and BMW diesel engines have dpf issues...that's not to say all VAG diesels are a problem but a friend's Audi had a lot of costly issues with the dpf and egr on a 2.0 tdi engine.

roger.mellie

Original Poster:

4,640 posts

51 months

Tuesday 21st January 2020
quotequote all
VR99 said:
It seems to be the case that some diesel engines are better than others at taking abuse from mainly short stop start journeys and overall lower annual mileages.
The Honda 2.2 diesel engines (found in the CRV?) seem to be well received and not seen much about dpf related issues but I'm well aware that a lot of VAG group and BMW diesel engines have dpf issues...that's not to say all VAG diesels are a problem but a friend's Audi had a lot of costly issues with the dpf and egr on a 2.0 tdi engine.
Thanks, that's good to know and something I'll look into. My car history is mainly Japanese and petrol so a Honda would appeal. I've nothing against the German marques but they aren't currently top of my list. My main preference so far is the Volvo range of SUVs and estates.

Pig benis

1,071 posts

180 months

Tuesday 21st January 2020
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I have a BMW 330D E91 and last year I covered 7k miles. Most of my mileage are short trips (3-5 miles), but then I'll do a long trip over the weekend (usually 80-100 miles) and so far (touch wood) I haven't had any issues.

Ideally a diesel with a DPF isn't the ideal choice for short trips, but so long as you are doing a long journey every week or two, I don't see it being a problem.

But would I buy a diesel again? Heck no. The constant worry of my DPF packing up is a concern and an expensive one at that.

VR99

1,259 posts

62 months

Tuesday 21st January 2020
quotequote all
Out of interest does that ever entail the car sitting around for a few days with no use at all? The dreaded dpf is a shame as I wouldn't mind having a diesel for the torque on longer runs but my car tends to be parked for 3/4 days at a time with mainly weekend use which isn't ideal for diesels with dpf

clarki

1,312 posts

218 months

Tuesday 21st January 2020
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My Evoque (2.2D) will be 6 in a couple of months, just passing 20k miles now.

Commute is 9 miles. Car share every other week so it often sits for a week at a time.

Zero issues to date, although it is garaged and on a trickle charge when not in use.

Venisonpie

3,231 posts

81 months

Tuesday 21st January 2020
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Just to add another bit of insight. Some of the dpf issues on diesels aren't always straight forward. It can be the sensors clogging up and then sending false readings to the brain which doesn't allow a regen. I had one recently where Ford quoted 1.5k to replace a dpf on a custom which actually wouldn't have fixed the problem. Given the quote was high I had a local specialist investigate who worked out which sensors needed replacing and the bill was £500 for a proper fix.
Also the Ford engines suffer where the Mercedes 2.1 engined vitos don't. I wouldn't think twice buying a modern diesel but would go in with plenty of research.

valiant

10,069 posts

159 months

Tuesday 21st January 2020
quotequote all
VR99 said:
Out of interest does that ever entail the car sitting around for a few days with no use at all? The dreaded dpf is a shame as I wouldn't mind having a diesel for the torque on longer runs but my car tends to be parked for 3/4 days at a time with mainly weekend use which isn't ideal for diesels with dpf
That’s my type of use. Sits outside most of the week as I get a train to work and usually drive about 100 miles at the weekend when the trains aren’t working. My Volvo D5 hasn’t had any issues with the dpf in the 3 odd years I’ve owned it.

Pica-Pica

13,623 posts

83 months

Tuesday 21st January 2020
quotequote all
valiant said:
VR99 said:
Out of interest does that ever entail the car sitting around for a few days with no use at all? The dreaded dpf is a shame as I wouldn't mind having a diesel for the torque on longer runs but my car tends to be parked for 3/4 days at a time with mainly weekend use which isn't ideal for diesels with dpf
That’s my type of use. Sits outside most of the week as I get a train to work and usually drive about 100 miles at the weekend when the trains aren’t working. My Volvo D5 hasn’t had any issues with the dpf in the 3 odd years I’ve owned it.
Mine too. About 20 miles round trip twice or thrice a week, and 200 mile round trip every two weeks.

mikal83

5,340 posts

251 months

Tuesday 21st January 2020
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Crikey, this is turning into a "metoo" evening. My diesel citroen c5 was bought to pull a caravan around the EU and then a trailer load of logs. The 'van has gone and we pull the trailer, (1500kg), no more than a 4 mile round journey, once a week. The low end torque is great for the pulling power and higher load. A petrol equivalent is down 250kgs on capacity usually, and way different on when the power kicks in. that and the better mpg I love..............BUT I wont be doing more than a total of 2000 miles pa. Life sucks. I want the diesel but....common sense says the petrol I guess.

Vinylseats

8 posts

50 months

Thursday 23rd January 2020
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I had a 2009 diesel Peugeot 207 as my previous car yet only was doing about 5,000 miles a year. After a couple of years of owning it the engine started occasionally cutting out; first time was as I was sitting at a set of traffic lights at night and the engine stopped with quite a jolt. It started again straight away and I thought I must have subconsciously released the clutch without thinking. But then it happened again a few weeks later, at traffic lights once again.

I knew it wasn't good when I was on holiday in Northumberland and the engine cut out whilst I was doing about 60mph on the A1 and I had to roll to an almost stop while keeping on trying the ignition, with the engine starting again on the third or fourth go.

We got it checked over and this was when I found out about DPF issues, being told to drive the car "harder", which I then tried!

But it kept happening every so often. The worst was when I was on the M54 near Telford and the engine cut out with a jolt again; I drifted towards the hard shoulder, before managing to get it to start again just before I came to a standstill. Enough was enough by this point and I traded it in for a petrol 208.

As my yearly mileage and long distance driving has since increased I'm once again looking at diesels, but am now very aware of the potential problems!


Sheepshanks

32,533 posts

118 months

Thursday 23rd January 2020
quotequote all
roger.mellie said:
My annual mileage is low enough that mpg is not a concern. I do about 6k a year. That’s regular short drives of about 3 miles each way, a regular fortnightly drive of about 80 miles and a semi regular monthly drive of about 200 miles.

Would the above driving profile lead to problems with a diesel?
I looked at this when we decided VW Tiguan was the right car, but at the time (towards the ned of the mk1) only diesels were available. I did some checking, and also specifically asked the dealer, and everyone said it would be fine, and, touch wood, at 4.5yrs and 26K miles, it has been.

One thing I would say is this business of taking it for a thashing every week to clear the dpf is a bit of a nonsense. The car active regens when it needs to, which seems to be about every 300 miles. We did a 300 mile round trip one weekend all on motorway and on Monday it did an active regen on the school run.

Active regens need run time - 10-15 mins - so you'll find with quick 3 mile journeys you're interrupting the regen all the time - if you do that, you'll get dpf warnings and then you do need to take it for a thrashing. I've never had to do tha even thought it's hard to tell it's doing a regen, but if I do notice, I'll drive around for a bit until it's finished.

A more general issue with 3 mile trips is the engine will still be pretty cold. Diesels are into the teens of miles before the oil is up to temp. So on that basis a regular longer run is a good thing as it's getting the oil properly hot. I'd still want to be changing it yearly though due to the short runs.


I should add that the emissions systsm on these cars are pretty complicated, especially with AdBlue as ours has (from mid 2015 on Tiguan). I live in constant fear of it throwing a wobbly.