NHS lease scheme

Author
Discussion

Countdown

39,690 posts

195 months

Monday 27th January 2020
quotequote all
Downward said:
Yeah that’s wrong,
The pot is £7920 total. This would be your pension pot so however much you get per annum.
Perhaps we’re talking at cross purposes but £7,920 isn’t the “pot”. It will be their annual pension. The “pot” needed to generate £7,980 pa would be upwards of £150k

Downward

3,490 posts

102 months

Monday 27th January 2020
quotequote all
Countdown said:
Downward said:
Yeah that’s wrong,
The pot is £7920 total. This would be your pension pot so however much you get per annum.
Perhaps we’re talking at cross purposes but £7,920 isn’t the “pot”. It will be their annual pension. The “pot” needed to generate £7,980 pa would be upwards of £150k
Still think it’s wrong, it says someone who does 40 years in the NHS wil get £32k per annum pension based on a 40k salary. The 95 scheme was basically half your salary as pension after 40 years so on 40k this would be £20k.
I’m in the 2015 scheme so i’ll go check today how much is in my pot after 4 years.

GT72

5,692 posts

178 months

Monday 27th January 2020
quotequote all
gangzoom said:
GT72 said:
I would rather make a saving of £15k today over a “possible” cost of £5k in 50 years time.
But its not £5K in 50 years.

Tusker is our trust car scheme provider, a P Model 3 is £1000/month gross on their scheme - about £500/month next pay reduction.

£1000/month reduction in your pension translates to £435/month less per annum you are alive taking a pension, over a 3 year rental term that adds up to £1300/year reduction. If you live for 15 years thats £19,500 lost pension pay out. This is without taking into account above inflation guaranteed annual interest rate on the pension pay out, even assuming 3% annual interest, compounded over 15 years that will become a rather large figure.

Now add in the out of pocket net pay deduction you are paying right now to that sum and these 'amazing' NHS lease deals aren't really all that amazing.

By all mean 'live for today' but just understand the true cost of the product given it directly affects one of the most valuable financial aspects of been a NHS employee.


Edited by gangzoom on Sunday 26th January 20:39
Based on your calculations above for every £12,000 my wife earns over 3 years she will receive a pension of £1,300 per annum (ignoring growth). So, for every £36,000 earned an annuity of £1,300 pa is secured. To secure £1,300 pa based on current annuity rates a pot of £26,000 is required.

So for every £36,000 of income earned by my wife the NHS reserve £26,000 for her pension, based on your numbers.

Again based on your numbers an NHS employee earning £36,000 per annum would get a pension of £45,500 per annum (assuming 35 years employment), which would require a pension pot of £910,000.

Is this correct, you get 25% more than your salary as a pension in the NHS?

Countdown

39,690 posts

195 months

Monday 27th January 2020
quotequote all
Downward said:
Still think it’s wrong, it says someone who does 40 years in the NHS wil get £32k per annum pension based on a 40k salary. The 95 scheme was basically half your salary as pension after 40 years so on 40k this would be £20k.
I’m not a pensions expert (Come back Sidicks, all is forgiven!) however…..

In both the above cases you’re assuming that the Employee is going to be on £40k throughout their 40-year working career. That's unrealistic but if that WAS to happen then the new CARE scheme is better for them. However, if they started on £10k and got promoted over the course of their working life to £40k then the old “Final Salary” scheme would be better.

garpat32

115 posts

81 months

Monday 27th January 2020
quotequote all
The 40k figure that's uses would be a band 7 and mid to high on the pay progression. So wouldn't be stuck at 40k for ten years anyway.

Also using the E-tron as an example it's figures etc are based on a person on the higher tax threshold, so band8's really.

Anyway, it's a good deal, as are a lot of the cars they offer, I don't get this "99%" of the offers are rubbish bit?

dmsims

6,452 posts

266 months

Monday 27th January 2020
quotequote all

Andrew[MG]

3,322 posts

197 months

Monday 27th January 2020
quotequote all
Are the same offers available to NHS Scotland employees?

garpat32

115 posts

81 months

Monday 27th January 2020
quotequote all
Andrew[MG] said:
Are the same offers available to NHS Scotland employees?
The deal that was first mentioned, or E-tron is not NHS specific, it's through

https://www.nhsfleetsolutions.co.uk/electric-offer...

But the deal with lots of public sector.

ahm

148 posts

98 months

Monday 27th January 2020
quotequote all
Andrew[MG] said:
Are the same offers available to NHS Scotland employees?
As mentioned, the deals specifically being discussed here (eg. the E-Tron) are through nhsfleetsolutions. If you contact them they can tell you if they supply to the specific trust you're interested in. It appears not all offers you see in the site prior to logging in are available to all trusts, so you need to obtain the details from them to log in under that trust and see what is then on offer.

GT72

5,692 posts

178 months

Monday 27th January 2020
quotequote all
I’m definitely no pension expert, but I can have a good stab at maths and have now done a tiny bit of research into this. Mustache’s explanation above is by far the most accurate summary, but the input numbers are incorrect as I would imagine he or she’s not received a formal quote from the car provider, so was having to guess.

My wife’s quote on the Tesla Model 3 Performance was £382pcm for 10,000 miles per year over 24 months.

The impact on her gross salary is a deduction of £7,577 per annum.

As per Mustache’s calculation that’s a reduction of £140 per annum to her annual pension, based upon 1/54. Therefore a reduction of £280 per annum to her pensionable salary for having the car for 2 years. So assuming she takes the pension for 20 years, that’s a reduction of £5,600 in total over a 20 year period.

Having contacted the scheme provider the reduction in her source pension contribution is £59pcm for the 24 month period of the lease.

Personally I’m happy that it’s still a bargain, saving £15,600 today at a “potential” cost of £5,600 in 20 years’ time is still good value. However, if you are relying solely on the NHS pension and plan to run one of these cars into perpetuity it may be prudent to make contingency plans. It would appear you are able to top up your pension contribution either on a monthly or on an annual lump sum basis, which will hopefully offset the issue. Topping up the £59 pcm cost would take the total cost of our car to £441pcm – still an absolute bargain to what we’d pay if trying to lease one privately – circa £1,000pcm.

As I say, I’m no pensions expert and my wife only started working for the NHS a couple of years ago so her pension really doesn’t factor into our retirements plans, buy for those that are – does the above look about right?

pavarotti1980

4,837 posts

83 months

Monday 27th January 2020
quotequote all
Chris32345 said:
And people complain NHS didn't give good pensions
Who says that? Not as good as it used to be admittedly

It shouldnt be a race to the bottom of how little in return you get. Effectively a public sector employee is paying for their pension from salary deductions and also the taxation used to provide the schemes.

garpat32 said:
The 40k figure that's uses would be a band 7 and mid to high on the pay progression. So wouldn't be stuck at 40k for ten years anyway.

Also using the E-tron as an example it's figures etc are based on a person on the higher tax threshold, so band8's really.

Anyway, it's a good deal, as are a lot of the cars they offer, I don't get this "99%" of the offers are rubbish bit?
Non EV deals are poor in comparison to what can be had from brokers or finance arms of manufacturers.

My last car was double what i was paying through VWFS if i went with Tusker. Trust has moved to NHS Fleet Solutions now and the cost is even higher again.

the e-Tron deal is brilliant and as a lower rate tax payer is still just over £300 per month

Edited by pavarotti1980 on Monday 27th January 12:03

garpat32

115 posts

81 months

Monday 27th January 2020
quotequote all
And your wife's salary will increase until she is at the top of her pay band. So it's also depends on what band and where about within the band.

garpat32

115 posts

81 months

Monday 27th January 2020
quotequote all
pavarotti1980 said:
Chris32345 said:
Non EV deals are poor in comparison to what can be had from brokers or finance arms of manufacturers.

My last car was double what i was paying through VWFS if i went with Tusker. Trust has moved to NHS Fleet Solutions now and the cost is even higher again.


Edited by pavarotti1980 on Monday 27th January 12:03
Some non EV deals maybe, but it's nonsense to say all.

pavarotti1980

4,837 posts

83 months

Monday 27th January 2020
quotequote all
garpat32 said:
Some non EV deals maybe, but it's nonsense to say all.
Really? Find a decent non-EV deal which is better than getting from other places

garpat32

115 posts

81 months

Monday 27th January 2020
quotequote all
pavarotti1980 said:
garpat32 said:
Some non EV deals maybe, but it's nonsense to say all.
Really? Find a decent non-EV deal which is better than getting from other places
The mini cooper deal they have now. Just ran a quote, 290 month for 10k year.

Can't find anything close? For that car.

pavarotti1980

4,837 posts

83 months

Monday 27th January 2020
quotequote all
garpat32 said:
The mini cooper deal they have now. Just ran a quote, 290 month for 10k year.

Can't find anything close? For that car.
https://leasing.com/main-dealers/evans-halshaw-leasing/mini/hatchback/454102513/

£234pm

Edited by pavarotti1980 on Monday 27th January 12:21

garpat32

115 posts

81 months

Monday 27th January 2020
quotequote all
pavarotti1980 said:
garpat32 said:
The mini cooper deal they have now. Just ran a quote, 290 month for 10k year.

Can't find anything close? For that car.
https://leasing.com/main-dealers/evans-halshaw-leasing/mini/hatchback/454102513/

£234pm

Edited by pavarotti1980 on Monday 27th January 12:21
Yes, no maintenance, no insurance and there's an upfront payment?

Or are they all free now?

pavarotti1980

4,837 posts

83 months

Monday 27th January 2020
quotequote all
garpat32 said:
Yes, no maintenance, no insurance and there's an upfront payment?

Or are they all free now?
Why do you need maintenance on a 24 month lease? Most it will cost you is a service in 12 months. Are paying more than £60 a month insurance?

What up front payment? Its a 1+23 deal with an admin fee.

Driller38

181 posts

77 months

Monday 27th January 2020
quotequote all
garpat32 said:
Andrew[MG] said:
Are the same offers available to NHS Scotland employees?
The deal that was first mentioned, or E-tron is not NHS specific, it's through

https://www.nhsfleetsolutions.co.uk/electric-offer...

But the deal with lots of public sector.
Would this include teachers??

garpat32

115 posts

81 months

Monday 27th January 2020
quotequote all
pavarotti1980 said:
garpat32 said:
Yes, no maintenance, no insurance and there's an upfront payment?

Or are they all free now?
Why do you need maintenance on a 24 month lease? Most it will cost you is a service in 12 months. Are paying more than £60 a month insurance?

What up front payment? Its a 1+23 deal with an admin fee.
The 1+ and admin fee is an upfront payment is it not? Maintenance is servicing and tyres included.

And insurance will vary depending on the drivers circumstances, but NHS deal is fully comp business with upto 4 named drivers.

So as I said show me a better deal on that car