"The end of haggling with a used-car salesman" ?
Discussion
Deep Thought said:
Throttlebody said:
Correct. But your reply incorrectly highlighted ‘online buying surge’ which is a wider and increasing consume trend - including car click and collect.
Also, click and collect hasn’t dropped to ‘practically zero’. Another of your imaginations. It’s an increasing trend.
Relative to cars it has - which is what this thread is about.Also, click and collect hasn’t dropped to ‘practically zero’. Another of your imaginations. It’s an increasing trend.
Any feedback from salesmen suggest its dropped back to practically zero again. People inherently do not want their sight of a used car to be after they've paid for it.
And theres an easy adjustment that a lot of dealers are already doing. First dealer group i looked at - Sytners - are offering it if people want to
https://www.sytner.co.uk/news/click-and-collect/
All 8,000+ of their cars have Click and Collect options.
Your problem (well one of) is that you think dealers cant / wont evolve. They do and they will. Why would anyone buy from Cazoo based in some industrial estate somewhere when you can buy an Approved Used car from a franchised dealer for between £££s and £,£££s less and either do Click and Collect or have them deliver it to you anyway.
Car selling is multi channel. Theres a small niche maybe for what they're doing but its neither evolutionary, revolutionary nor a disruptor.
New and used Click and Collect is moving out of niche and evolving and growing. CV19 has also been a catalyst. It’s being embraced by both manufacturers and independents.
Cazoo is now a unicorn 1$ billion dollar company and with £50 million of funding, Carzam will be active soon with the capacity to turn around 8000 cars per month. All sectors are embracing it as a facility, while you produce statements like click and collect has ‘dropped to practically zero’.
Throttlebody said:
Best not to rely on feedback from a car salesmen or make things up. You might end up with another Audi AG CFO embarrassment.
New and used Click and Collect is moving out of niche and evolving and growing. CV19 has also been a catalyst. It’s being embraced by both manufacturers and independents.
Cazoo is now a unicorn 1$ billion dollar company and with £50 million of funding, Carzam will be active soon with the capacity to turn around 8000 cars per month. All sectors are embracing it as a facility, while you produce statements like click and collect has ‘dropped to practically zero’.
Show me actual stats to prove that its anything other than a minor sales channel.New and used Click and Collect is moving out of niche and evolving and growing. CV19 has also been a catalyst. It’s being embraced by both manufacturers and independents.
Cazoo is now a unicorn 1$ billion dollar company and with £50 million of funding, Carzam will be active soon with the capacity to turn around 8000 cars per month. All sectors are embracing it as a facility, while you produce statements like click and collect has ‘dropped to practically zero’.
It was a needs must situation for customers and sellers alike.
Real people out there doing real jobs are feeding back that its gone back to pre COVID levels.
They're offering it as a facility, but its simply another minor sales channel for them, not the "new normal".
Edited by Deep Thought on Saturday 4th July 14:45
Deep Thought said:
Show me actual stats to prove that its anything other than a minor sales channel.
It was a needs must situation for customers and sellers alike.
Real people out there doing real jobs are feeding back that its gone back to pre COVID levels.
They're offering it as a facility, but its simply another minor sales channel for them, not the "new normal".
There you go again......who said it was the ‘new normal’? It was a needs must situation for customers and sellers alike.
Real people out there doing real jobs are feeding back that its gone back to pre COVID levels.
They're offering it as a facility, but its simply another minor sales channel for them, not the "new normal".
Edited by Deep Thought on Saturday 4th July 14:45
Throttlebody said:
There you go again......who said it was the ‘new normal’?
And there you go again - trying to side step the point at hand.To use your exact words then, you said - "general surge and shift to e-commerce.", you referenced an article titled "The Telegraph have run a similar theme article, ‘Death of a car salesman’. ", you talked of an "online buying surge" and you said "Understandably, traditional car sale salesmen are finding this a bit challenging"
Wheres your evidence that this is a surge towards car sales e-commerce, that its a online buying surge and that car salesmen / traditional dealers are finding it a bit challenging?
Its a small sales channel that had a flurry of "needs must" interest for two months and thats now reverted back
Deep Thought said:
Throttlebody said:
There you go again......who said it was the ‘new normal’?
And there you go again - trying to side step the point at hand.To use your exact words then, you said - "general surge and shift to e-commerce.", you referenced an article titled "The Telegraph have run a similar theme article, ‘Death of a car salesman’. ", you talked of an "online buying surge" and you said "Understandably, traditional car sale salesmen are finding this a bit challenging"
Wheres your evidence that this is a surge towards car sales e-commerce, that its a online buying surge and that car salesmen / traditional dealers are finding it a bit challenging?
Its a small sales channel that had a flurry of "needs must" interest for two months and thats now reverted back
Throttlebody said:
Deep Thought said:
Throttlebody said:
There you go again......who said it was the ‘new normal’?
And there you go again - trying to side step the point at hand.To use your exact words then, you said - "general surge and shift to e-commerce.", you referenced an article titled "The Telegraph have run a similar theme article, ‘Death of a car salesman’. ", you talked of an "online buying surge" and you said "Understandably, traditional car sale salesmen are finding this a bit challenging"
Wheres your evidence that this is a surge towards car sales e-commerce, that its a online buying surge and that car salesmen / traditional dealers are finding it a bit challenging?
Its a small sales channel that had a flurry of "needs must" interest for two months and thats now reverted back
Deep Thought said:
Who reference "online buying surge" and "Death of a car Salesman" and "traditional car salesmen are finding it a bit challenging" but cant back that up?
No point in explaining as what is actually typed is always converted into your fictitious interpretations, Audi AG CFO style.Throttlebody said:
Deep Thought said:
Who reference "online buying surge" and "Death of a car Salesman" and "traditional car salesmen are finding it a bit challenging" but cant back that up?
No point in explaining as what is actually typed is always converted into your fictitious interpretations, Audi AG CFO style.
Getting back to the original thread title about haggling for used cars a minute...
I sold my car privately today and have an appointment to look over a car on Monday. Pretty sure I'll buy it unless there's something seriously wrong with it. But, now I've taken part ex out of the equation and am a cash buyer, erm....is it still considered the done thing to haggle on the price? It's a used car from a main dealership.
I'm not being funny. Just genuinely interested as to what those in the trade think. Can I expect to pay the sticker price or is there usually some margin?
I sold my car privately today and have an appointment to look over a car on Monday. Pretty sure I'll buy it unless there's something seriously wrong with it. But, now I've taken part ex out of the equation and am a cash buyer, erm....is it still considered the done thing to haggle on the price? It's a used car from a main dealership.
I'm not being funny. Just genuinely interested as to what those in the trade think. Can I expect to pay the sticker price or is there usually some margin?
ChrisH72 said:
Getting back to the original thread title about haggling for used cars a minute...
I sold my car privately today and have an appointment to look over a car on Monday. Pretty sure I'll buy it unless there's something seriously wrong with it. But, now I've taken part ex out of the equation and am a cash buyer, erm....is it still considered the done thing to haggle on the price? It's a used car from a main dealership.
I'm not being funny. Just genuinely interested as to what those in the trade think. Can I expect to pay the sticker price or is there usually some margin?
Too many variables, if it's a pre lockdown car, maybe a little negotiation available, brand new stock, less so.I sold my car privately today and have an appointment to look over a car on Monday. Pretty sure I'll buy it unless there's something seriously wrong with it. But, now I've taken part ex out of the equation and am a cash buyer, erm....is it still considered the done thing to haggle on the price? It's a used car from a main dealership.
I'm not being funny. Just genuinely interested as to what those in the trade think. Can I expect to pay the sticker price or is there usually some margin?
At the end of the day, it all depends on what it owes them, what they have spent on it, it's that simple.
ChrisH72 said:
Getting back to the original thread title about haggling for used cars a minute...
I sold my car privately today and have an appointment to look over a car on Monday. Pretty sure I'll buy it unless there's something seriously wrong with it. But, now I've taken part ex out of the equation and am a cash buyer, erm....is it still considered the done thing to haggle on the price? It's a used car from a main dealership.
I'm not being funny. Just genuinely interested as to what those in the trade think. Can I expect to pay the sticker price or is there usually some margin?
No harm in asking or pitching a sensible - but i wouldnt (and i'm sure you're not about to) go in with an all guns blazing approach that would entrench the situation.I sold my car privately today and have an appointment to look over a car on Monday. Pretty sure I'll buy it unless there's something seriously wrong with it. But, now I've taken part ex out of the equation and am a cash buyer, erm....is it still considered the done thing to haggle on the price? It's a used car from a main dealership.
I'm not being funny. Just genuinely interested as to what those in the trade think. Can I expect to pay the sticker price or is there usually some margin?
pavarotti1980 said:
Justin Case said:
Cazoo are now sponsoring Aston Villa. Villa are in the premier league but dangerously near the relegation zone. Read into that what you will 
And Everton too. £10m per season if reports are true 
Whilst we're waiting for the money to run out (wont take long at that rate).
Heres an article from 2009 hailing Auto Quake as the Next Big Thing for providing internet sales of used cars, with a No Quibble 7 day cooling off period.
https://www.theguardian.com/money/2009/jun/27/used...
And heres a story of them folding 2 years later..
https://www.which.co.uk/news/2011/03/massive-onlin...
Sometimes the criteria for buying a car can be different from the norm.
I need a new car for my wife.
Economical
Height adjustable seating
Good visibility
Good headlights
Good demisting
Quite rugged as the lanes around here are tracks.
She works as a care worker, in a rural area and isn't very tall.
Sometimes you cannot tell any of the above points by looking on line.
Going to the forecourt, seeing the car physically and talking to a salesman who knows what car does what is invaluable.
Some businesses will never be internet only
Everyone said estate agents would be killed by the internet, car sales people will be here for a while yet.
I need a new car for my wife.
Economical
Height adjustable seating
Good visibility
Good headlights
Good demisting
Quite rugged as the lanes around here are tracks.
She works as a care worker, in a rural area and isn't very tall.
Sometimes you cannot tell any of the above points by looking on line.
Going to the forecourt, seeing the car physically and talking to a salesman who knows what car does what is invaluable.
Some businesses will never be internet only
Everyone said estate agents would be killed by the internet, car sales people will be here for a while yet.
Deep Thought said:
Good to see their investing their seed money wisely.
Whilst we're waiting for the money to run out (wont take long at that rate).
Heres an article from 2009 hailing Auto Quake as the Next Big Thing for providing internet sales of used cars, with a No Quibble 7 day cooling off period.
https://www.theguardian.com/money/2009/jun/27/used...
And heres a story of them folding 2 years later..
https://www.which.co.uk/news/2011/03/massive-onlin...
Good examples of the past failures - but 10 years ago is a long time in tech. Whilst we're waiting for the money to run out (wont take long at that rate).
Heres an article from 2009 hailing Auto Quake as the Next Big Thing for providing internet sales of used cars, with a No Quibble 7 day cooling off period.
https://www.theguardian.com/money/2009/jun/27/used...
And heres a story of them folding 2 years later..
https://www.which.co.uk/news/2011/03/massive-onlin...
In a new sector all startups fail, until one doesn't; it thrives. It needs to have seen failed attempts, (and learned). It needs users to embrace new ways of thinking, and it needs enough money in the bank to make mistakes, learn, improve till it breaks through. (and it needs luck too; so much can go wrong).
The Telegraph article has a reader comment which I think shows the preference for transparent pricing for *some people*
"When I bought my last car, there was a discount of £500, another discount of £750 for having a test drive, another £750 for taking a finance deal which you could get out of within 14 days but keep the discount. These were clearly made up “Discounts” to encourage you to think you were getting a good deal. Why not simply reduce the retail price to something sensible - on balance the dealer may have sold more cars"
That's an interesting point - would a car sales business achieve *more* units or higher *total revenue* if there was no haggling? I don't know, but sure as eggs are eggs someone will give the answer !
I would be nervous buying a car online and having it delivered to my door. I like a dealership where I can go over the car before buying and on pickup so I can check for faults at the dealer.
Bought my other half's car through a big car supermarket, used their easy car search, found the right car, put down a £150 refundable deposit so they would transport it from Newcastle to our nearest branch, OH test drove it, loved it, I found some niggles for them to sort and we paid asking price (no haggling allowed, the price was good anyway)
Picked it up a week later and drove away.
Only sour note was all the extra crap they tried to sell us (finance, tyre insurance etc) but if you can get through that it's alot easier than driving around for miles haggling with people.
Bought my other half's car through a big car supermarket, used their easy car search, found the right car, put down a £150 refundable deposit so they would transport it from Newcastle to our nearest branch, OH test drove it, loved it, I found some niggles for them to sort and we paid asking price (no haggling allowed, the price was good anyway)
Picked it up a week later and drove away.
Only sour note was all the extra crap they tried to sell us (finance, tyre insurance etc) but if you can get through that it's alot easier than driving around for miles haggling with people.
Manufacturers set the RRP, and outline all of the available model relevant deposit contributions, finance rates, test drive incentives, etc, not the dealer.
The dealer is still working within the parameters of the mostly small dealer margin that they have.
A manufacturer will tweak and adjust these incentives normally on a quarterly basis, obviously dependent on sales.
Citroen were and probably still are the worst for this.
New model comes out, RRPs quoted, certain incentives for finance, and test drives etc, then just as you have got your head around the myriad of differing offers on different specs and options, they then a month later change it all, including the base line RRPs, as sales dont meet their expectations.
And on it goes, until the RRP, basically is irrelevant, and the offers they keep throwing at you, and constantly changing, makes it impossible to keep ahead of.
I remember when I worked for Citroen up until 2009, I couldn't tell you the price of a new Saxo or C3 off the top of my head, if a customer asked, without referring to a quarterly sales campaign leaflet that was around 6 pages thick.
The dealer is still working within the parameters of the mostly small dealer margin that they have.
A manufacturer will tweak and adjust these incentives normally on a quarterly basis, obviously dependent on sales.
Citroen were and probably still are the worst for this.
New model comes out, RRPs quoted, certain incentives for finance, and test drives etc, then just as you have got your head around the myriad of differing offers on different specs and options, they then a month later change it all, including the base line RRPs, as sales dont meet their expectations.
And on it goes, until the RRP, basically is irrelevant, and the offers they keep throwing at you, and constantly changing, makes it impossible to keep ahead of.
I remember when I worked for Citroen up until 2009, I couldn't tell you the price of a new Saxo or C3 off the top of my head, if a customer asked, without referring to a quarterly sales campaign leaflet that was around 6 pages thick.
Gassing Station | Car Buying | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff