BMW M140i vs Golf R. Which is best for Britain and tuning?
Discussion
Mr Happy said:
Does the haldex on an R bias more to the front or the rear? If the front then an R would be more forgiving if you drove it coming from (and as you would) a high powered FWD car, whereas if you tried the same in a M135i/M140i, it would probably bite you back a bit.
Personally I went from a ~200hp FWD car to the M135i and re-calibrating 22 years experience of being dragged around to being shoved around has taken some thought - especially with the crap weather at this time of year. Even with all of the nannies switched on, it can still be quite lively.
If you did go M-lite, I'd tentatively say don't think about power mods for the first year of ownership - they're far from slow in standard form.The only mod I'm considering for mine is a Wavetrac or MP LSD (they should have come with this out of the factory but I think M LSDs are generally only standard spec for full M cars)
Yeah M140is are silly fast even when standard. I just talk about tuning because I like to know the potential of a car. If I was to get one I'd be fitting an LSD firstly before any serious power increase Personally I went from a ~200hp FWD car to the M135i and re-calibrating 22 years experience of being dragged around to being shoved around has taken some thought - especially with the crap weather at this time of year. Even with all of the nannies switched on, it can still be quite lively.
If you did go M-lite, I'd tentatively say don't think about power mods for the first year of ownership - they're far from slow in standard form.The only mod I'm considering for mine is a Wavetrac or MP LSD (they should have come with this out of the factory but I think M LSDs are generally only standard spec for full M cars)
Dylanaledhall said:
Mr Happy said:
Does the haldex on an R bias more to the front or the rear? If the front then an R would be more forgiving if you drove it coming from (and as you would) a high powered FWD car, whereas if you tried the same in a M135i/M140i, it would probably bite you back a bit.
Personally I went from a ~200hp FWD car to the M135i and re-calibrating 22 years experience of being dragged around to being shoved around has taken some thought - especially with the crap weather at this time of year. Even with all of the nannies switched on, it can still be quite lively.
If you did go M-lite, I'd tentatively say don't think about power mods for the first year of ownership - they're far from slow in standard form.The only mod I'm considering for mine is a Wavetrac or MP LSD (they should have come with this out of the factory but I think M LSDs are generally only standard spec for full M cars)
Yeah M140is are silly fast even when standard. I just talk about tuning because I like to know the potential of a car. If I was to get one I'd be fitting an LSD firstly before any serious power increase Personally I went from a ~200hp FWD car to the M135i and re-calibrating 22 years experience of being dragged around to being shoved around has taken some thought - especially with the crap weather at this time of year. Even with all of the nannies switched on, it can still be quite lively.
If you did go M-lite, I'd tentatively say don't think about power mods for the first year of ownership - they're far from slow in standard form.The only mod I'm considering for mine is a Wavetrac or MP LSD (they should have come with this out of the factory but I think M LSDs are generally only standard spec for full M cars)
Grip can still be problematic thanks to the ridiculously narrow rear tyres for the power (245/35/18 OEM size). Finding wheels that fit can be a pain because offsets, particularly at the rear, are very high. With the wheel choice, suspension and some spacers, some people have been able to run 245s at the front and 265s at the rear.
Edited by HM-2 on Friday 22 January 15:36
I take it you are set on the 1 series? As a somewhat different suggestion how about the 230i? I know difficult to stack up agaianst the 240i, I checked them out a while ago and new ones spec'd with adaptive suspension etc eneded up being nearly the price of the 240i, so why get a lower power 4 cyclinder with less kit?
Weight, and particularly over the front wheels. A remap only gets you 280bhp so not even close to the might six pot, however consider, a few suspension tweaks and it will likely be better to drive than the six, the lsd may not be needed or at least not for a while and it will be cheaper to run, service and insure.
It will be a different choice.
Weight, and particularly over the front wheels. A remap only gets you 280bhp so not even close to the might six pot, however consider, a few suspension tweaks and it will likely be better to drive than the six, the lsd may not be needed or at least not for a while and it will be cheaper to run, service and insure.
It will be a different choice.
Toltec said:
I take it you are set on the 1 series? As a somewhat different suggestion how about the 230i? I know difficult to stack up agaianst the 240i, I checked them out a while ago and new ones spec'd with adaptive suspension etc eneded up being nearly the price of the 240i, so why get a lower power 4 cyclinder with less kit?
Weight, and particularly over the front wheels. A remap only gets you 280bhp so not even close to the might six pot, however consider, a few suspension tweaks and it will likely be better to drive than the six, the lsd may not be needed or at least not for a while and it will be cheaper to run, service and insure.
It will be a different choice.
You can get m240i's for £18-20k with 340hp out of the box as standard (meaning standard insurance).Weight, and particularly over the front wheels. A remap only gets you 280bhp so not even close to the might six pot, however consider, a few suspension tweaks and it will likely be better to drive than the six, the lsd may not be needed or at least not for a while and it will be cheaper to run, service and insure.
It will be a different choice.
A mapped 230i (so straight into declaring mods) would probably be more expensive to insure than a standard m240i, the servicing etc. would be either specialist or via a BMW service plan (I think I'm paying about £750ish for 3 yrs iirc which is 1 major, 2 minor, a brake fluid service and 2 map updates). so on par with a 230i and if you're buying AUC, best forget about any mods in the warranty period as BMW are getting hot on detecting even basic coding changes and voiding warranties because of it.
You'd be stuck in a lower powered, more compromised, pale imitation of the real deal... You'd be daft to go for a 230i (imho, of course)
Edited by Mr Happy on Friday 22 January 16:11
HM-2 said:
The B58 is an insane engine from the perspective of potential performance. 700+whp achievable with an uprated turbo, fuelling and bolt-ons, no need for uprating internal components. Stage 2 cars make ~460bhp with filter, exhaust + high flow cat and remap. Most people replace the charge pipes too, just to be safe. As I'm sure others have said, the suspension will struggle with that kind of power and yet, as you rightly say, they need a diff. Brakes are pretty good even at higher powers, same basic architecture as on the M3/M4 but with different pads and IIRC a slightly smaller disk. Tuned manual cars will chew through clutches, especially if driven hard. Some people fit M4 lower control arms and tension struts for increased camber up front, Dinan also do a monoball lower control arm setup that does the same but without pushing the wheels forward in the arches like the M4 stuff does.
Grip can still be problematic thanks to the ridiculously narrow rear tyres for the power (245/35/18 OEM size). Finding wheels that fit can be a pain because offsets, particularly at the rear, are very high. With the wheel choice, suspension and some spacers, some people have been able to run 245s at the front and 265s at the rear.
Yeah I hear the B58 is strong, as tempting as 700bhp is, I don't think I'd ever go that far, especially with the power going through only the rear wheels and as you said though very narrow tires. Grip can still be problematic thanks to the ridiculously narrow rear tyres for the power (245/35/18 OEM size). Finding wheels that fit can be a pain because offsets, particularly at the rear, are very high. With the wheel choice, suspension and some spacers, some people have been able to run 245s at the front and 265s at the rear.
Edited by HM-2 on Friday 22 January 15:36
I'm ok to do handling mods, I guess I'm just lucky that I currently have a car that has an amazing chassis from standard but doesn't mean it's perfect. However, all I need to do to my current car is get some lowering springs and possibly some uprated anti-roll bars but I think it's a bit overkill personally.
As for the M140 again I am happy to do a few mods cause I like making a car my own and especially if I can make it better than how it left the factory, I'd probably invest in bmw m3/m4 parts as you've mentioned
Mr Happy said:
You can get m240i's for £18-20k with 340hp out of the box as standard (meaning standard insurance).
A mapped 230i (so straight into declaring mods) would probably be more expensive to insure than a standard m240i, the servicing etc. would be either specialist or via a BMW service plan (I think I'm paying about £750ish for 3 yrs iirc which is 1 major, 2 minor, a brake fluid service and 2 map updates). so on par with a 230i and if you're buying AUC, best forget about any mods in the warranty period as BMW are getting hot on detecting even basic coding changes and voiding warranties because of it.
You'd be stuck in a lower powered, more compromised, pale imitation of the real deal... You'd be daft to go for a 230i (imho, of course)
There would definitely need to be some magic steering feeling due to losing two cylinders, the larger discounts on the 240i make the 230i rather expensive. A 230i with 280bhp is not going to feel slow though. It looks like the 220i can be remapped to the same, but likely missing out on brakes and suspension I'd imagine? Like you I'd probably go with the 240i and keep it more standard if I couldn't find anything else I wanted.A mapped 230i (so straight into declaring mods) would probably be more expensive to insure than a standard m240i, the servicing etc. would be either specialist or via a BMW service plan (I think I'm paying about £750ish for 3 yrs iirc which is 1 major, 2 minor, a brake fluid service and 2 map updates). so on par with a 230i and if you're buying AUC, best forget about any mods in the warranty period as BMW are getting hot on detecting even basic coding changes and voiding warranties because of it.
You'd be stuck in a lower powered, more compromised, pale imitation of the real deal... You'd be daft to go for a 230i (imho, of course)
Edited by Mr Happy on Friday 22 January 16:11
ScoobyChris said:
Mr Happy said:
BMW are getting hot on detecting even basic coding changes and voiding warranties because of it.
What basic coding changes are they rejecting warranty claims on?Chris
ked having had a good play with Carly! They basically voided his entire electrical warranty due to sone minor coding which sounds harsh given that these options are already in the computer and just need turning on.
Dylanaledhall said:
Hi guys,
This has probably been a topic that's been discussed in length but I want some more opinions.
I'm currently building a stage 3 Fiesta ST which will be around the 300-340bhp range. I haven't quite finished yet but I know there will be a day where I decide to move on and progress into something better.
The 2 cars I'm considering are in the title which are a BMW M140i and a Golf R (Mk7)
I know both cars have their advantages and disadvantages. For example the BMW has that lovely 3 litre B58 lump and rear wheel drive but will the rear wheel drive become a pain to live with as I would plan on tuning both cars. Meanwhile the Golf R will put the power down far easier on a British road and the Golf ( in my opinion) is the better looking car of the two. The only disadvantage of the Golf R is the fact it has been described as being "dull" to drive. Although it won't sound as good as the BMW it isn't a deal breaker for me personally.
The plan with both cars as I've said would be to tune them, I'm aware on a stage 2 a Golf R will go past 400bhp and the M140i can reach about 450. I just want to know if anyone has moved from a Golf R to an M140i or moved from a M140i to a Golf R and your reasons why. I'd love to know your thoughts.
Thanks guys
If you're looking at a Golf R why not start at the very top of the hot hatch tree & get either the A45 AMG or Audi RS3 both are very tuneable & a better starting point than the Golf R.This has probably been a topic that's been discussed in length but I want some more opinions.
I'm currently building a stage 3 Fiesta ST which will be around the 300-340bhp range. I haven't quite finished yet but I know there will be a day where I decide to move on and progress into something better.
The 2 cars I'm considering are in the title which are a BMW M140i and a Golf R (Mk7)
I know both cars have their advantages and disadvantages. For example the BMW has that lovely 3 litre B58 lump and rear wheel drive but will the rear wheel drive become a pain to live with as I would plan on tuning both cars. Meanwhile the Golf R will put the power down far easier on a British road and the Golf ( in my opinion) is the better looking car of the two. The only disadvantage of the Golf R is the fact it has been described as being "dull" to drive. Although it won't sound as good as the BMW it isn't a deal breaker for me personally.
The plan with both cars as I've said would be to tune them, I'm aware on a stage 2 a Golf R will go past 400bhp and the M140i can reach about 450. I just want to know if anyone has moved from a Golf R to an M140i or moved from a M140i to a Golf R and your reasons why. I'd love to know your thoughts.
Thanks guys
The RWD isn't an issue it'll put the power down fine once you put a Quaife in the rear end, drive ability is the key issue with any tuning.
ZX10R NIN said:
If you're looking at a Golf R why not start at the very top of the hot hatch tree & get either the A45 AMG or Audi RS3 both are very tuneable & a better starting point than the Golf R.
The RWD isn't an issue it'll put the power down fine once you put a Quaife in the rear end, drive ability is the key issue with any tuning.
Hi, unfortunately I just don't have RS3 money The RWD isn't an issue it'll put the power down fine once you put a Quaife in the rear end, drive ability is the key issue with any tuning.
I mean they may depreciate a bit but will still be way out of my budget. As for A45 they're still a bit pricey and my dad said his Focus ST felt faster when he test drove an A45. Yes you read that correctly, he felt that a 250bhp focus felt faster than the 360bhp A45. He has moved into a Mk3 RS now but still found the ST more fun. So to be honest I'm not really that interested in them due to his feedback and I was the one trying to get him into an A45 in the first place. He was just so disappointed with it, especially for the fact the one he test drove was near on £50k! Great point to point car car but I think it lacks personality and enjoyment so it's a no from me for the A45 unfortunately.
But yeah I'd be adding an LSD pronto onto the M140i personally
Edited by Dylanaledhall on Friday 22 January 22:30
Edited by Dylanaledhall on Friday 22 January 22:47
Dylanaledhall said:
Hi, unfortunately I just don't have RS3 money I mean they may depreciate a bit but will still be way out of my budget.
As for A45 they're still a bit pricey and my dad said his Focus ST felt faster when he test drove an A45. Yes you read that correctly, he felt that a 250bhp focus felt faster than the 380bhp A45. He has moved into a Mk3 RS now but still found the ST more fun. So to be honest I'm not really that interested in them due to his feedback and I was the one trying to get him into an A45 in the first place. He was just so disappointed with it, especially for the fact the one he test drove was near on £50k! Great point to point car car but I think it lacks personality and enjoyment so it's a no from me for the A45 unfortunately.
But yeah I'd be adding an LSD pronto onto the M140i personally
Having owned a 330bhp ST let me tell you the A45 feels ballistic I'd test drive them yourself before writing them off, also if your dad felt the A45 was slow then you shouldn't be looking at the Golf R as he'd feel it wasn't even moving. I mean they may depreciate a bit but will still be way out of my budget. As for A45 they're still a bit pricey and my dad said his Focus ST felt faster when he test drove an A45. Yes you read that correctly, he felt that a 250bhp focus felt faster than the 380bhp A45. He has moved into a Mk3 RS now but still found the ST more fun. So to be honest I'm not really that interested in them due to his feedback and I was the one trying to get him into an A45 in the first place. He was just so disappointed with it, especially for the fact the one he test drove was near on £50k! Great point to point car car but I think it lacks personality and enjoyment so it's a no from me for the A45 unfortunately.
But yeah I'd be adding an LSD pronto onto the M140i personally
Edited by Dylanaledhall on Friday 22 January 22:30
With Golf R's starting at around 14-15k for a half decent one I'd rather start with the more charismatic RS 5 pot:
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202012117...
ZX10R NIN said:
Having owned a 330bhp ST let me tell you the A45 feels ballistic I'd test drive them yourself before writing them off, also if your dad felt the A45 was slow then you shouldn't be looking at the Golf R as he'd feel it wasn't even moving.
With Golf R's starting at around 14-15k for a half decent one I'd rather start with the more charismatic RS 5 pot:
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202012117...
What turbo and software were you running on your st? Would love to know With Golf R's starting at around 14-15k for a half decent one I'd rather start with the more charismatic RS 5 pot:
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202012117...
ZX10R NIN said:
GGR built the engine & dyno'd it once it was finished.
You had your engine built? I'm aiming for 330bhp on standard internals so wish me luck . I've got a few more parts I need like crossover pipe, boost pipes, diverter valve, actuator and the turbo itself. I'm looking at 2 different turbos, I'm looking at either the X47R from Pumaspeed or the 350R turbo from Sabre tuning. Still torn between the two at the moment. Belle427 said:
I can’t help thinking you must be mental to want to tune an already tail happy car!
A Golf R can be made much more exciting if that’s your thing but I’d probably go with the suggestion of the RS3 above just because the engine note is sublime.
I do mostly motorway miles so as long as it's happy to put the power down in a straight line at motorway speeds I'm happy. The RS3 suggestion is very tempting, it's just a shame Chris Harris said the chassis was awful. I'm assuming you could help it by putting decent tires on an RS3 rather than continental tires but I doubt it would make a massive difference. However, like I say I'm doing mostly motorway miles so I don't know if massive understeer will ever effect me in the real world. Despite this, I can't help but feel the M140i would be more of a "driver's" car than the RS3. Plus the interior of those RS3s are very dated now (IMHO) and I think for the same sort of price I'd rather an M135i, but again, this is just my own opinion so please feel free to disagree A Golf R can be made much more exciting if that’s your thing but I’d probably go with the suggestion of the RS3 above just because the engine note is sublime.
Edited by Dylanaledhall on Saturday 23 January 09:00
Edited by Dylanaledhall on Saturday 23 January 09:01
Dylanaledhall said:
I do mostly motorway miles so as long as it's happy to put the power down in a straight line at motorway speeds I'm happy. The RS3 suggestion is very tempting, it's just a shame Chris Harris said the chassis was awful. I'm assuming you could help it by putting decent tires on an RS3 rather than continental tires but I doubt it would make a massive difference. However, like I say I'm doing mostly motorway miles so I don't know if massive understeer will ever effect me in the real world. Despite this, I can't help but feel the M140i would be more of a "driver's" car than the RS3. Plus the interior of those RS3s are very dated now (IMHO) and I think for the same sort of price I'd rather an M135i, but again, this is just my own opinion so please feel free to disagree
Yes I've read that about the older RS3.Edited by Dylanaledhall on Saturday 23 January 09:00
Edited by Dylanaledhall on Saturday 23 January 09:01
Difficult to justify the price tag of the newer model.
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