RX8 replacement?

[GTdrive]

sawman said:

3 pages and only one cerbera mention....

Back in the early days of the century, when it was all fields in these parts, the standard answer for “i need a car with rear seats for the kids” questions was always the missile from blackpool

The irony of recommending a TVR to somebody looking for a daily to carry his kids in. Not safe even for me alone. I would never risk my kid's lives by driving them around in such a car. Even if I didn't have to cut off their legs to fit them in the back.

[culpz]

GTdrive said:

hiccy18 said:

M135i.

Pros: faster, more torque, much more economical, more space, much more practical boot. Six cylinder snarl.
Cons: handling isn't a patch on an RX8, steering isn't as communicative, not as fun.

15k would get you a decent second hand model.

I'm glad I owned an RX8 but I consider it the worst car I have ever owned, flawed in so many stupid ways it infuriated me. Steering was great and I enjoyed the handling, which was what I was looking for when I purchased it.

Thanks for your input. But this is what I mean. The M135i is just a normal common car. A 4 doors hatchback. It is an alternative to a Golf. Not to a car like the Rx8. Your list of cons is exactly what disqualifies it in my opinion. Otherwise really any car could be a replacement for the RX8.

This is what makes the RX8 such a hard act to follow. it is a true sports car in the sense of the word and looks exotic too. But it has rear seats and rear doors.

You'll need to compromise somewhere though. The fact is, there's no real modern version of an RX8.

You may be pleasantly surprised with something like an M135i or even an M235i, the latter of which may fit the brief more. They have more of mini-GT car feel to them, as apposed to a hot-hatch. The engine dominates the experience and they also handle well, after a few little suspension tweaks and maybe an LSD. Still RWD and come in manual flavour. The 2-Series should also be a bit more engaging compared to the 1.

[GTdrive]

300bhp/ton said:

Better? Maybe. More fun? Probably not.

300bhp/ton said:

I had an S13, awesome car. Esp for the money back then. But I would say the Camaro z28 is better on every single level. And more fun.

You seem to really like the Camaro. You don't find the rear twitchy and waving about, with the rigid axle? Great straight lines cars with an old school feel. But not great around curves, even if you are not trying to compare it to a great handling car such as the RX8.

And then if I remember well, the V6 Camaros 4th gen handle better than the V8. V8 is definitely faster of course.

And the rear seats are not that useful. One of the advantages of the RX8 is that the rear doors really make it easy. If no rear doors, then the rear seats have to really have space. Not easy buckling kids up otherwise.

[Lincsls1]

Curious to know more about the RX8 flaws you experienced? Apart from the quirky engine, I think they are pretty reliable.
The 192 I had years ago was pretty reliable. Flooded it once, but got it going again. Otherwise never let me down.
They were things that could be done to improve reliability, like fitted the latest gen coils. the latest starter for faster easier starts and premixing the fuel to help lubricate the rotor tips.

Edited by Lincsls1 on Friday 19th February 16:04

[GTdrive]

Lincsls1 said:

Having owned an RX8 (192) and now the owner of a Monaro...
The RX8 is a proper sports car, fantastic feel and handling.
The Monaro is not, its a muscle car, handling totally different, but still competent, power obviously in a different league, laugh out loud ownership.
The RX8 is more practical with its four doors.
If its your engine that's knackered, assuming the bodywork is excellent, get it rebuilt or shove a LS V8 in. This would be a unique experience, and it would be very fast.
If the body is failing, buy another, the best you can find. They really are cheap.

I really think the V8 will ruin it.

But it's great to see so many other RX8 owners posting. It is indeed a great car and just about the perfect daily for those who want a sports car, like to drive but also need a practical car. I think Mazda missed an opportunity when they killed the RX8. Once the wankle could no longer pass emissions, they should have facelifted the RX8, given it a nice V6 and pushed on. Even if they would have to rename the car. I think it would have out sold the RX8. So many didn't buy the RX8 because of the wankle.

By the way, what is the rust situation with all of you with RX8s?

[GTdrive]

Lincsls1 said:

Curious to know more about the RX8 flaws you experienced? Apart from the quirky engine, I think they are pretty reliable.
The 192 I had years ago was pretty reliable. Flooded it once, but got it going again. Otherwise never let me down.

Compression. A few rust spots too. But that I would take car of.

I always read the RX8 likes you to drive it as if you stole it. So I did. Maybe I should not have. LOL.

[americancrx]

I think driving it like you stole it is the correct way to treat a rotary, and ensures that you'll get a full service life out of the engine.

What I think you need is a spare engine reserved for you at the local rebuilder. I bet you could pay for them to always have an extra engine in inventory and to be right at the front of the line for a swap if it is needed..

[Lincsls1]

Based on what you've said, and the fact you clearly love the drive and practicality, I'd seriously consider sticking with a RX8.
Get the engine rebuilt, new coils, latest starter. Jobs a good-un.
Jump on the bodywork before it develops to far.
Just remembering the times I had with the RX8, and yes, it really did drive fantastically, brakes were strong, interior was great and it was fast enough. I never found it gutless either, but yes it liked revs.
They are rare on the roads now, certainly unique and another sure classic.

[300bhp/ton]

GTdrive said:

300bhp/ton said:

Better? Maybe. More fun? Probably not.

300bhp/ton said:

I had an S13, awesome car. Esp for the money back then. But I would say the Camaro z28 is better on every single level. And more fun.

You seem to really like the Camaro. You don't find the rear twitchy and waving about, with the rigid axle? Great straight lines cars with an old school feel. But not great around curves, even if you are not trying to compare it to a great handling car such as the RX8.

And then if I remember well, the V6 Camaros 4th gen handle better than the V8. V8 is definitely faster of course.

And the rear seats are not that useful. One of the advantages of the RX8 is that the rear doors really make it easy. If no rear doors, then the rear seats have to really have space. Not easy buckling kids up otherwise.

Rear seats are def better on the RX8, no doubt at all. I always used to say on here I'd much rather an RX8 over a Focus ST and arguably just as practical for most things.

The rear seats are low in the Fbody, but quite comfy once in. There was a user on here who used one as a sole family transport, he even fabbed up a bike rack.

Handling wise, I can't say I've ever noticed the rear twitchy at all. I owned a blue '99 model with an auto gearbox for many many years. Standard suspension and it handled fine. Surprised a few friends who had Porsches when I got it. Not going up against them, but letting them drive it.

A few years back I bought another '99 model. Green but this had the rare in the UK 6 speed manual. I've since sold the auto. The manual is a lot of fun. Mildly uprated suspension. Went on a PH run the other year in it. Despite being coldish and damp out it had no trouble keeping up with a raft of fast cars and was very enjoyable. One person in a 911 Turbo even said I looked to be having more fun than he was, as the 911 was so capable, despite some fairly rapid speeds.

So yes I do like them. But I'm now a serial buyer and have owned a 4th Gen for 15 years +. Very easy car to live with and has cost peanuts to run. Excluding servicing (which is cheap and easy) and tyres/brakes. I've only needed to spend about £600 in parts in all the years. I admit I do need to look at replacing the window motors (although bought one, which is included in the £600). But not fitted.

That's pretty cheap motoring. Will do high 20's or even over 30mpg on a good run too.

Watch the Nurburgring lap I linked earlier. It is quite impressive on the number and types of vehicles he goes past, while not being overtaken at all.


Re: the V6. Don't know, never driven one. But the V6 was a bit of a boat anchor. I'd guess the all alloy Ls1 (98-02 models) is lighter. The V8's also use a different rear axle and slightly different suspension. And there was an optional handling pack not offered on the V6's. So ultimately I'd be surprised if true.

And don't get me wrong. I'm not saying they handle anything like an RX-8. But on the flip side they don't handle anything like most Brits would stereotype either. And you really can throw them about and play with them very well. Ultimately if you want a 2+2 rwd manual with rear seats bigger than a GT86. Your choices are very limited, so I thought I'd suggest something that you may not have considered.

The 2003/4 Cobra Terminator likewise. It isn't going to be the precision instrument the RX-8 is. But C&D thought the two cars were similar enough to compare. Although finding a Cobra in the UK is hard. They are one of the few cars I'd have considered selling the Camaro for. IRS, 6 speed, supercharged engine. And still handle well, just in a bigger more brutish fashion. Really with the American cars the chassis feel and handling is good. But there steering isn't going to be as communicative as an RX-8. Plus there are plenty of relatively easy and cheap suspension upgrades for the American cars. And running and owning them is generally completely painless.

[300bhp/ton]

americancrx said:

I think driving it like you stole it is the correct way to treat a rotary, and ensures that you'll get a full service life out of the engine.

What I think you need is a spare engine reserved for you at the local rebuilder. I bet you could pay for them to always have an extra engine in inventory and to be right at the front of the line for a swap if it is needed..

I have to say, for more than a few years I've eyed up an RX-8 as a track/tarmac rally car. I think it would be a great alternative to an MX-5. But with the engine, I think the real risk or ballache is. You can spend a shed ton of cash rebuilding/fixing it. But all of this is only a temporary stop gap. As the same fundamental issues will remain unsolved. So you know at some point in the future you will be back to square one again.

[Desk20]

Another RX8 owner here, I feel pretty much the same as you, so I’m not going to be a great deal of help.

I’ve had my PZ for 14 years (almost to the day), despite all the doom mongers it’s been totally reliable all this time. Apart from the obvious consumables I’ve only had to replace the gearbox natural switch, (£25 and an hour or so squirming around under the car wishing I had a universal joint in my arm).

Several times I’ve thought I should move onto something new, but I just can’t think of anything I would enjoy as much as the RX8 without compromising somewhere. It has a few minor paintwork scuffs curtesy of Sainsbury’s car park and I wasn’t sure if it was worth getting it tidied up, so when it was in for MOT last week, I asked them to at have a look while it was on the ramp and let me know if there were any areas where rust was rearing its ugly head. They reported back that it’s in remarkably good condition.

So I’m back wondering what to do, I don’t need 4 seats any more – there’s a nice MX-5 BBR 220 that I quite like the look of, but I know I’ll miss the RX8 and for a few £ it could be looking as good as new.

[GTdrive]

300bhp/ton said:

Rear seats are def better on the RX8, no doubt at all. I always used to say on here I'd much rather an RX8 over a Focus ST and arguably just as practical for most things.

The rear seats are low in the Fbody, but quite comfy once in. There was a user on here who used one as a sole family transport, he even fabbed up a bike rack.

Handling wise, I can't say I've ever noticed the rear twitchy at all. I owned a blue '99 model with an auto gearbox for many many years. Standard suspension and it handled fine. Surprised a few friends who had Porsches when I got it. Not going up against them, but letting them drive it.

A few years back I bought another '99 model. Green but this had the rare in the UK 6 speed manual. I've since sold the auto. The manual is a lot of fun. Mildly uprated suspension. Went on a PH run the other year in it. Despite being coldish and damp out it had no trouble keeping up with a raft of fast cars and was very enjoyable. One person in a 911 Turbo even said I looked to be having more fun than he was, as the 911 was so capable, despite some fairly rapid speeds.

So yes I do like them. But I'm now a serial buyer and have owned a 4th Gen for 15 years +. Very easy car to live with and has cost peanuts to run. Excluding servicing (which is cheap and easy) and tyres/brakes. I've only needed to spend about £600 in parts in all the years. I admit I do need to look at replacing the window motors (although bought one, which is included in the £600). But not fitted.

That's pretty cheap motoring. Will do high 20's or even over 30mpg on a good run too.

Watch the Nurburgring lap I linked earlier. It is quite impressive on the number and types of vehicles he goes past, while not being overtaken at all.


Re: the V6. Don't know, never driven one. But the V6 was a bit of a boat anchor. I'd guess the all alloy Ls1 (98-02 models) is lighter. The V8's also use a different rear axle and slightly different suspension. And there was an optional handling pack not offered on the V6's. So ultimately I'd be surprised if true.

And don't get me wrong. I'm not saying they handle anything like an RX-8. But on the flip side they don't handle anything like most Brits would stereotype either. And you really can throw them about and play with them very well. Ultimately if you want a 2+2 rwd manual with rear seats bigger than a GT86. Your choices are very limited, so I thought I'd suggest something that you may not have considered.

The 2003/4 Cobra Terminator likewise. It isn't going to be the precision instrument the RX-8 is. But C&D thought the two cars were similar enough to compare. Although finding a Cobra in the UK is hard. They are one of the few cars I'd have considered selling the Camaro for. IRS, 6 speed, supercharged engine. And still handle well, just in a bigger more brutish fashion. Really with the American cars the chassis feel and handling is good. But there steering isn't going to be as communicative as an RX-8. Plus there are plenty of relatively easy and cheap suspension upgrades for the American cars. And running and owning them is generally completely painless.

The RX8 is absolutely as practical as a Ford Focus. And looks better, is more special, and drives infinitely better too. It is really that practical. It's a little miracle of a car.

Back to the Camaro, I think it depends on the V6 in question. The older V6 might be a boat anchor. But the Buick 3800 used in the facelift Camaros weighs basically the same as a LS1. And is listed as only 10kg heavier than the modern High-Feature V6s. It's a very good engine the Buick V6. But it is shorter, so it sits further inside the chassis than the V8s. And the 3800 compared to the LT1 is much lighter. The LT1 is a heavy lump.

There are IRS kits for the 4th gen F-bodies. But if I remember well they are expensive. Like 10K or around that. I wonder how much it would transform the car.

And I'm not basing any of that on any stereotype we may have around these parts. I have driven the Camaros, Firebirds and Corvettes in the U.S. Several of the generations. I know them quite well.

Which Camaro do you have? I know it's not a popular opinion, but I always liked the facelift better.The 1998-2002 ones. I always thought it looked classier and more grown up. I think it also aged better. I need to duck when I say this, but it gives me a quite Aston vibe, in a DB7 type of way. The 98-02 ones that is. I used to like the 4th gen Firebirds and Trans Ams better when I was younger. But now I like the Camaro facelift better. More grown up.

It is indeed a lot or motor for the money and around these parts, quite exotic and it doesn't have the stereotypes attached as it does in the U.S. It would definitely have to be a manual for me. The good thing is that I really wouldn't need a V8. The V6 makes the same amount of power as the RX8 and the cars are not really much different in weight. But the Chevy V6 has way more grunt.

But I could see myself breaking my back already. The rear seats are the bucket or shell type. The type you fall into. So I can see myself breaking my back to buckle the kids up or to get them in and out.

Edited by GTdrive on Friday 19th February 19:26

[GTdrive]

300bhp/ton said:

I have to say, for more than a few years I've eyed up an RX-8 as a track/tarmac rally car. I think it would be a great alternative to an MX-5. But with the engine, I think the real risk or ballache is. You can spend a shed ton of cash rebuilding/fixing it. But all of this is only a temporary stop gap. As the same fundamental issues will remain unsolved. So you know at some point in the future you will be back to square one again.

Yes! That's it. Your last sentence defines well why I don't feel like rebuilding the engine. If I knew it would be my last time or at least another 200k miles, I would maybe feel different. But I know it will happen again. Like I said, I don't feel like treating the engine as if it was a consumable.

[GTdrive]

Lincsls1 said:

Based on what you've said, and the fact you clearly love the drive and practicality, I'd seriously consider sticking with a RX8.
Get the engine rebuilt, new coils, latest starter. Jobs a good-un.
Jump on the bodywork before it develops to far.
Just remembering the times I had with the RX8, and yes, it really did drive fantastically, brakes were strong, interior was great and it was fast enough. I never found it gutless either, but yes it liked revs.
They are rare on the roads now, certainly unique and another sure classic.

300bhp/ton defines it well above why it is not worth rebuilding the engine, for me.

The only way I see myself staying with the RX8 is if a V6 swap existed which was affordable and gave at least the same amount of hp and more torque. But all swap kits put the price way up there. And I'm not good enough of a mechanic to figure a swap on my own for cheap. Specially for the electronic, CANBUS and the like side of things. But it would need to be a V6. A V8 will certainly ruin the car. But all swaps a crazy expensive.

[GTdrive]

300bhp/ton said:

Watch the Nurburgring lap I linked earlier. It is quite impressive on the number and types of vehicles he goes past, while not being overtaken at all.

Indeed! I just watched it. Nice drive!

Ate Porsches and Lotus and everything in between.

But I think that drive is as much a testament to the car as it is to the driver. It seems he was on the edge of both. He can handle it. He knows his car. Looked like he was on the edge and could lose control anytime. Just going crazy on it. Great drive! You can see the forces by watching the female's feet floating around in the passenger seat.

Watching it I was reminded of that crude feeling the F-bodies have. During the whole time I had the impression the car could disintegrate at any moment. I swear that steering wheel was loose! What a fun drive. I'm sure he had a blast. I just wish the camera position wasn't so low. Could barely see the road ahead.

But that seems far from a stock car. He lists some mods and it seems like a track car, stripped and all. Somebody in the comments mentioned the car had IRS. Although not sure he knows the owner or was just guessing. Maybe because of the impressive drive.

As we have been saying, it is a lot of car for the money and honestly a lot of car in any case. And bargains too. The Mustangs have a higher value and are over priced in comparison in my opinion. I guess it's that Ford cult.

One thing that always puts off is the interior quality. The low tech on the mechanical side I consider a good thing. Robust, easy and cheap to maintain. It's in the interior that is more the letdown. Even the Monaro is a few notches above there.

Do these 4th gens share anything with the European GM products like Vauxhall or Saab that can be swapped? Just some nicer leather Saab seats would already elevate the cabin a bit. A more modern steering wheel, similar to how the Lotus people upgrade to the newer steering wheels. Apart from the cabin the exterior aged well. Specially here where we don't see one every corner. Performance is a bargain. The interior is the low point. Specially if you drive it everyday and spend a lot of time in it. Is it your daily by the way?

Talking about parts, everything must be F-body and imported? Or are there bits from European GM which can be used?

[Lincsls1]

GTdrive said:

One thing that always puts off is the interior quality. The low tech on the mechanical side I consider a good thing. Robust, easy and cheap to maintain. It's in the interior that is more the letdown. Even the Monaro is a few notches above there.

The Monaro interior might not be the greatest, but at 17years old is just fine.
My 2004 80k mile interior is wearing very well, all of the switch gear works, nothing is broken/worn out/or off - like I've seen in the same period of Audi!
Rattles and squeaks are minimal. Fit and finish respectable.
The only appreciable wear is to the driver bolster and that isn't bad at all.
I wouldn't say better than the RX8, but not any worse either. The RX8 interior is more stylish with its rotary references which I liked a lot.

[GTdrive]

Lincsls1 said:

The Monaro interior might not be the greatest, but at 17years old is just fine.
My 2004 80k mile interior is wearing very well, all of the switch gear works, nothing is broken/worn out/or off - like I've seen in the same period of Audi!
Rattles and squeaks are minimal. Fit and finish respectable.
The only appreciable wear is to the driver bolster and that isn't bad at all.
I wouldn't say better than the RX8, but not any worse either. The RX8 interior is more stylish with its rotary references which I liked a lot.

I did say that the Monaro interior was better than the Camaro's.

But in general, the Monaro follows the GM low rent interior trend of the time.

It's not bad. But it is also not what I would call a nice place to be. I guess I would call it standard. Nothing special.

I never liked the RX8 dashboard. Well, I like the instruments. I just dislike the mid console and that cheap CD player looking circle. But the seats, if the leather ones, are nice and the rest of the interior too. I find it nicer than the Monaro's. Naturally everybody has a different opinion.

[Fastdruid]

This wont help...but I miss our RX-8.

Bought a Mazda 6 MPS to replace it when child #2 came along because while they're fine for *one* baby or older children but if you have a child seat in the front then it effectively makes the seat behind it unusable and if you have a baby in the back then it's a *LONG* reach in with a heavy baby and seat. Plus while it was a 4 door getting in the back was a pain in any kind of normal parking space. You really needed to open the front door fully and the rear door which was just not realistic.

Used to be funny turning up to the supermarket and parking in the parent and child bay next to the big mumsy cars though, you'd see people go to "tut" and then pull out the pushchair and load a baby in.

Anyway, not here to suggest the Mazda 6 MPS, not a patch on the RX-8. Yes slightly more exciting in a straight line because turbo (and more power), yes more practical (although the RX-8 was amazingly practical as above), yes more room in the back (but then the RX-8 was absolutely fine for 4 average adults), yes better on fuel (but still only 18mpg), yes better in winter (because AWD)...but didn't handle as well (although it did handle well).

Thing is though the MPS just felt like a fast normal car, the RX-8 felt special even when you were sat stationary. No doubt all the other "similar" cars would be the same. Yes fast but...meh. Like the replacement for the MPS which was a Golf R. Which is nice but 95% of the time is "just a Golf".

I actually really liked the engine in the RX-8 as well (we didn't ever have a problem and it was more reliable than the MPS). I would love another one, except I've got no where to put another car and realistically wouldn't really drive it!

Anyway, my suggestion is the Mustang (6th gen, 2015+). RWD coupe, v8 engine, will fit 2 adults and two children in the back (including car seats) with decent amount of luggage. Not 4 door though.

Had one on holiday in the US and while the 2.3T (particularly when combined with the automatic 10 speed) was a disappointment loved the car otherwise. Would be great with the V8.

[xstian]

I'm looking to buy a RX8 for the same reasons, I wan't something with back seats. I narrowed it down to RX8, GT86 or Manaro. The V8 in the Manaro was a big appeal to me, but I prefer light cars and using power to overcome weight soon gets boring. I decided on the RX8 because of the engine, last chance to realistically get a rotary engine car and I don't think the RX8 would have been as good with a V6 (except in reliability and probably more torque), the rotary is light and small so could be fitted behind the front wheel to give even weight distribution.

I'll probably buy a GT86 a few years down the line.

[gaseous clay]

I miss my old RX8 more than any other car, OP has really nailed the difficulty in replacing it. I did the 2 car thing for a while with a 350Z and MGZS, I've now got an E92 M3 which is a heck of a machine but it certainly doesn't drive like a sports car. I'd think an M235 is probably the closest thing but I'd be unhappy in one of those after an RX8. I think you need to go completely different for a while to cleanse your palette. Maybe some turbo-nutter 4WD?