Track Car Options

[nickfrog]

Trackdayer said:

HustleRussell said:

Ay? Twin seaters ‘rarely fast’? What an odd thing to say.

Edited by HustleRussell on Friday 18th June 09:20

Not an odd thing at all. That's based on years of doing several trackdays a month.

Aside from Radicals they are seldom quick, in my experience they just seem to hold up the faster cars on track.

That's not my experience of them at all, even an average power well driven Caterham will be quicker than a typical M or a Megane. And crucially will run for longer before cooking its brakes and tyres.

[Trackdayer]

That's perhaps the issue then, not enough people willing or able to drive them properly.

[nickfrog]

Trackdayer said:

That's perhaps the issue then, not enough people willing or able to drive them properly.

I am sure that happens - but not often IME. The demographic of Caterham drivers is unlikely to be less willing or able to drive "properly" than your average M or Megane driver IMO.

Edited by nickfrog on Friday 18th June 17:47

[Olivera]

Trackdayer said:

My issue with twin seaters in general is that they're very rarely fast. On paper of course they are great. Light and stiff.

But in reality, most of them do little more than hold up Meganes, M3's and any other averagely quick track car. So given that they're awful on the road and you're constantly exposed to the elements, what's the point? Cheap on consumables granted. But that's not a reason IMHO to be slow on a trackday.

Who refers to Seven type cars as 'twin seaters' ? I've honestly never heard that before. They are light but not particularly stiff compared to say monocoque cars. Yes you are exposed to the elements, but what's the big deal, no more than motorcycling or cycling. Also why can't you be slow on a trackday, there is no winning.

[ZX10R NIN]

Here's a bit of leftfield thinking OP why not ditch the cars & get a bike for track days, they're great fun & you'll easily get a bike for that budget.

You can get a track only license for a small sum & then you have access to some great bikes for up to 7k, also bike trckdays are a bit cheaper so you can do more of them.

S1000RR

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/184861083835?hash=item2...

R6

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/164890543184?hash=item2...

ZX10R

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/265199769801?hash=item3...

GSX R 750

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/133785306112?hash=item1...

R1

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/294224695800?hash=item4...

RSV4 one of the sweetest chassis known to man

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/334034177188?hash=item4...

[HustleRussell]

Trackdayer said:

HustleRussell said:

Ay? Twin seaters ‘rarely fast’? What an odd thing to say.

Not an odd thing at all. That's based on years of doing several trackdays a month.

Aside from Radicals they are seldom quick, in my experience they just seem to hold up the faster cars on track.

‘Twin seaters aside from Radicals’ includes what? BMW Z3? Daihatsu Copen? Smart Car?

[Trackdayer]

Caterfields, kit cars, two seaters. You know what I mean, don't be pedantic.

Olivera said:

Yes you are exposed to the elements, but what's the big deal, no more than motorcycling or cycling.

Well yes, fair comment. I'm sure lots of us cycle on our trackdays.

My point is they are massively compromised cars for no tangible gain on track, in real world terms.

I suspect the lack of PAS, TC and ABS that makes them so "involving" to drive also makes their performance unobtainable to your average trackday driver. Hence why they are just an embarassment most of the time. This may not be relevant if the OP is particularly talented and doesn't mind the massive downsides of such a car.

[HustleRussell]

You don’t actually have any experience of driving one then? Been a passenger?

Been four years since I had a Caterham but on a trackday the feeling was of having brought a gun to a knife fight.

[nickfrog]

Trackdayer said:

.

My point is they are massively compromised cars for no tangible gain on track, in real world terms.

Track days are non competitive non timed events. They're for fun. You might genuinely think you are chasing the last 2 tenths at Cadwell (from memory) but this is not the point of a track day.

You can't have ever driven a Caterham.

[braddo]

Trackdayer said:

My point is they are massively compromised cars for no tangible gain on track, in real world terms.
.

That is a strange comment.

A tintop has to be massively compromised for road use to get near a caterham’s pace and endurance on a track day. While also going through consumables at 2-5 times the rate of a 7.

[Trackdayer]

braddo said:

A tintop has to be massively compromised for road use to get near a caterham’s pace and endurance on a track day. While also going through consumables at 2-5 times the rate of a 7.

I have tracked various tintops over the last decade, which have had no problems putting in long stints on track. If anything, I get fatigued before the car does. Losing PAS, aircon and creature comforts in going to a Caterfield certainly wouldn't help that. I can drive home in perfect comfort too.

The key is proper damping. My current E92 M3 has Intrax suspension which is ideal for heavy duty track work and is very compliant on the road.

Your consumables point is valid but cost isn't an issue for me.

A well specc'd M car or even my brother in laws Megane 265, properly driven, runs rings around 95% of Caterfields. As I said earlier, only Radicals seem to be genuinely fast. They seem impressive. I imagine an Atom would be too.

[braddo]

Trackdayer said:

... My current E92 M3 has Intrax suspension ...

So if you're doing several track days a month your annual fuel/tyres/brakes costs are probably around the OP's £5-7k budget to purchase a car.

Trackdayer said:

A well specc'd M car or even my brother in laws Megane 265, properly driven, runs rings around 95% of Caterfields.

Maybe you usually only see Academy Caterhams at your track days then. R300s and upwards are comfortably at and above the pace of Meganes and your M3.

[Olivera]

Trackdayer said:

A well specc'd M car or even my brother in laws Megane 265, properly driven, runs rings around 95% of Caterfields. As I said earlier, only Radicals seem to be genuinely fast. They seem impressive. I imagine an Atom would be too.

You need to drive a track prepped Caterham, they'll make a roadgoing E92 M3 seem like a heavy underperforming turd.

[ZX10R NIN]

OP just get a bike, the exhilaration & enjoyment is easy to access & then as you get better the depth of ability is pretty much endless & if you just buy a sportsbike you can ride it home.

You can buy sensible one for around 4k:

ZX10R

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/324683422280?hash=item4...

R1

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/164866246777?hash=item2...


The pick for me would be the Apillia RSV they have a fantastic chassis & you can get a Gen2 R/Factory which are ready & are fully adjustable track work for sensible money, as well as a booming V Twin soundtrack.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/294081388022?hash=item4...

If you're considering a Caterham style car then a bike makes a lot of sense especially for your budget.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/294081388022?hash=item4...

[braddo]

Am intrigued to know - how many offs do people see at typical bike track days?

Being able to play around at the limits feels a lot more risky to me on a bike - some understeer or oversteer in a car is manageable without risk of a lowside/highside and having my arse sliding on the ground!

[drgoatboy]

If you are going to mod for track don't discount a MK3 mx5. Yes with the leather seats they will be a squeeze. Cloth seats are better with loads of options to drop seat height.
Or do what I did and buy a fibreglass/carbon seat (I got a tilett T5 but they are rather expensive!) And custom mount it.
You will have plenty of room I assure you.

[ZX10R NIN]

braddo said:

Am intrigued to know - how many offs do people see at typical bike track days?

Being able to play around at the limits feels a lot more risky to me on a bike - some understeer or oversteer in a car is manageable without risk of a lowside/highside and having my arse sliding on the ground!

What do you mean by offs? People run on & then fall as the gravel trap takes hold but actual crashes are rare, as I said self preservation normally takes hold.

People get physically tired more than anything else.

[braddo]

Thinking of whenever riders come off their bikes, mostly low sides or high sides on track rather than collisions or slow falls in gravel.

[ZX10R NIN]

Not many actual low/highsides, the majority of red flags are for run on & falls in the gravel traps.

[ChevronB19]

Trackdayer said:

braddo said:

A tintop has to be massively compromised for road use to get near a caterham’s pace and endurance on a track day. While also going through consumables at 2-5 times the rate of a 7.

I have tracked various tintops over the last decade, which have had no problems putting in long stints on track. If anything, I get fatigued before the car does. Losing PAS, aircon and creature comforts in going to a Caterfield certainly wouldn't help that. I can drive home in perfect comfort too.

The key is proper damping. My current E92 M3 has Intrax suspension which is ideal for heavy duty track work and is very compliant on the road.

Your consumables point is valid but cost isn't an issue for me.

A well specc'd M car or even my brother in laws Megane 265, properly driven, runs rings around 95% of Caterfields. As I said earlier, only Radicals seem to be genuinely fast. They seem impressive. I imagine an Atom would be too.

Amused to see PAS, air on and creature comforts are vital for a track day car?

And I’m sorry - you’re wrong about Caterfields. Done many, many laps in them instructing. The low/medium power ones flatter novice drivers and teach you about how to drive properly. The same driver in a similar bhp/tonne car will be quicker in the Caterfield.