I'm aware they are very different cars. But which one?
Discussion
GreatGranny said:
A great car, but better as an auto. In fact, Lexus discontinued the manual not long after this because it was slower and thirstier and didn't sell.Plus, you buy a Lexus to waft... Loved mine.
ZackM said:
ZX10R NIN said:
Where are the rear doors? 
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/293497940134?hash=item4...
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/203500547003?hash=item2...
not sure if they did a manual though
Edited by ZiggyNiva on Tuesday 22 June 13:12
GreatGranny said:
Thanks. But have you driven one? They are pretty boring, not to mention boring to look at. Not a lot going for them besides Toyota reliability. Even though the sister car, the IS220 is junk there for what I have heard.
ZiggyNiva said:
Here
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/293497940134?hash=item4...
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/203500547003?hash=item2...
not sure if they did a manual though
I don’t think they made a manual. But at least it is a bit more interesting to look at than the IS250. Never sat in one though. But are they nice to drive or just wafty? That is the thing about the Jag. It’s wafty till you step on it. Then it becomes the sport saloon it was designed to be. At least the V6 Sport and S-type R. And then the style has nothing mundane about it, like the IS250.https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/293497940134?hash=item4...
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/203500547003?hash=item2...
not sure if they did a manual though
Edited by ZiggyNiva on Tuesday 22 June 13:12
stevekoz said:
I think he means it a) Sports Car(ish) b) Rotary Engine c) petrol - cars like that aren't going to be made in the future. It's a car / engine / package that has seen its peak and not likely to return as the move towards EV etc. takes its hold over the coming decade.
You can buy things that are dynamic, petrol, fast, sports car but for how long? And most are not cheap, not really. They have an expiration date, they have to really, in the given time/period. Which makes me sad as petrolhead as nothing EV really excites me.
As for the comments on BMW, the M140i is a hot hatch, but its not a standout car. It sounds good i guess but most get ruined by awful modifications as they are relatively cheap and accessible. The rx8 is a very different thing. Everyone should experience a rotary in my opinion, even if by rotary standards the rx8 isn't the pinnacle. Its still a great piece of automotive engineering that is from a bygone era. You won't see another car like it ever again. It was the last of its kind.
Now I get where he was coming from if he meant as you do. You can buy things that are dynamic, petrol, fast, sports car but for how long? And most are not cheap, not really. They have an expiration date, they have to really, in the given time/period. Which makes me sad as petrolhead as nothing EV really excites me.
As for the comments on BMW, the M140i is a hot hatch, but its not a standout car. It sounds good i guess but most get ruined by awful modifications as they are relatively cheap and accessible. The rx8 is a very different thing. Everyone should experience a rotary in my opinion, even if by rotary standards the rx8 isn't the pinnacle. Its still a great piece of automotive engineering that is from a bygone era. You won't see another car like it ever again. It was the last of its kind.
All true!
Don’t get me wrong. The RX8 drives very nicely and is a very special car. Having a 9000 RPM redline is intoxicating. The balance, the handy rear doors but still looks like a sports car. Very unique package indeed. It is just not as well finished, comfy and refined as the Jag and I know it is not meant to be. But as a daily, comfort and refinement play a big role. If the RX8 was finished more like a GT then this would be a much easier decision.
Also the risk taking in the RX8 is high. And you find conflicting info online even on what to get. Like, I have seen advice to go for the lower powered engine and avoid the high powered one and vice versa.
Then there is the styling. I’m not that fond of the early RX8 style. I do like the R3 a lot. But those are a different cattle of fish. Although I like the interior, specially the instrument binnacle. But not the materials and finish. Very low quality leather even if not compared to the Jag. The dashboard itself is standard 90's/2000's Honda Civic affair too.
So I guess you can see why I’m on the wall. I like parts of both cars.
By the way, do you own a RX8?
I'm thankful for all the suggestions, but the main point of the thread was to discuss the S-type and RX8, specially as a proposition against one another.
I have already been through this selection process and I am pretty sure I have considered all options. There isn't anything else which checks the boxes I want. There are only things that almost do. If they were manual, or RWD, or had rear doors etc.
So I was really hoping for more of a discussion of S-type vs RX8 and maybe even finding somebody who has experience in both.
I have already been through this selection process and I am pretty sure I have considered all options. There isn't anything else which checks the boxes I want. There are only things that almost do. If they were manual, or RWD, or had rear doors etc.
So I was really hoping for more of a discussion of S-type vs RX8 and maybe even finding somebody who has experience in both.
Mr Tidy said:
ZX10R NIN said:
Now you're talking get the R
But the OP specifically wanted a manual gearbox in his first post, so surely any R is a non-starter. 
My current daily is a manual E90 BMW 330i, but he didn't want a BMW either!
ZX10R NIN said:
Yep but it's the OP that's now considering the R, so an auto is on the table.
The S-type seemed to be getting a snob here. So I was just wondering if the R was in the mix, if people would consider it differently. I just don't understand the snob. But honestly I wouldn't buy a R, exactly because it's an auto only and the old style of auto. I drove one. It sometimes, like basically any or most autos, just won't drop a gear when you want for example. I find autos boring and frustrating on anything but a straight line, for a few seconds, if they have a lot of power. If they are standard power, boring all the time IMO.
Besides, I have it in good authority that the V6 is good for almost 300 bhp with some not too complex mods. That is basically the same or higher than the standard V8s which are auto only too. The R is almost 200kg heavier than the V6 manual too. And all the R parts are transferable to any S-type. So you can get the chassis and suspension improvement of the R, on a manual V6 with a tune and I bet in the bends it would outperform an R. Much less overall weight. Much less weight in the nose. The supercharger wine in the R is also a bit of a put off for me.
Mr Tidy said:
But the OP specifically wanted a manual gearbox in his first post, so surely any R is a non-starter.
My current daily is a manual E90 BMW 330i, but he didn't want a BMW either!
That's right. No BMWs. Way too many of them. Not fond of the styling and specially don't care at all for the interiors. I like the engines and gearboxes. Has any tuner ever done a full rebody of a BMW which actually looks classy and has nice style, with a full custom interior that looks classy and less Germanic? My current daily is a manual E90 BMW 330i, but he didn't want a BMW either!
griffsomething said:
It already looks pretty cool/nice/classy/stylish. 
The S-type needs no chaving.
Jaguar got it just right with the R. Just distinct and aggressive enough without looking chav like an AMG black series, or the new BMWs M or a JDM extravaganza.
It looks sporty.
Classy.
It needs no chaving.
You can play with wheels but that's about all it can use.
Style and uniqueness to give a Maserati a good run for its money.
And you don't need a R for the looks. A S-Type Sport looks smart too.
Having owned a S-Type 2.7 manual and test driving a number of RX8's before settling on my MGZT V8 I will tell you what I found in both. I am 5'6" so keep that in mind. Both cars are small inside for there relative footprints including boot space/shape. From a drivers position the RX8 wins hands down the S is a ergonomic pain in the a%$e. For driving interaction the RX8 is light years ahead but the Jag at least in manual form is a delight for the size and type of car. The harder you push the Jag the more rewarding it becomes. On balance there is not a lot in it when you consider the comfort the Jag leads the RX8 by when selecting as a daily. As is the case both are old and both suffer badly from bad previous owners however there are good cars out there just getting harder to find.
I still look at both and wish I had the space for both as they are very attainable.Both will be looked back on with rose tinted glasses but for me the RX8 could be one of those you should have owned, I still may.
I still look at both and wish I had the space for both as they are very attainable.Both will be looked back on with rose tinted glasses but for me the RX8 could be one of those you should have owned, I still may.
stevemiller said:
Having owned a S-Type 2.7 manual and test driving a number of RX8's before settling on my MGZT V8 I will tell you what I found in both. I am 5'6" so keep that in mind. Both cars are small inside for there relative footprints including boot space/shape. From a drivers position the RX8 wins hands down the S is a ergonomic pain in the a%$e. For driving interaction the RX8 is light years ahead but the Jag at least in manual form is a delight for the size and type of car. The harder you push the Jag the more rewarding it becomes. On balance there is not a lot in it when you consider the comfort the Jag leads the RX8 by when selecting as a daily. As is the case both are old and both suffer badly from bad previous owners however there are good cars out there just getting harder to find.
I still look at both and wish I had the space for both as they are very attainable.Both will be looked back on with rose tinted glasses but for me the RX8 could be one of those you should have owned, I still may.
Thanks for the input. Exactly the type of entry I was hoping for when I started the thread. I still look at both and wish I had the space for both as they are very attainable.Both will be looked back on with rose tinted glasses but for me the RX8 could be one of those you should have owned, I still may.
We are pretty much in agreement here, having not owned either but driven both.
Fully agree on the more you push the Jag the more rewarding it becomes. This is actually the great thing about it. You can be comfortable and cruise and do family duties. But when you feel like fun you push it and it rewards you as the sports saloon it was designed to be.
In many ways the RX8 is the same. The difference is, for cruising and family it is just not as comfortable and nice to be in. At lower speeds it is much worse than the Jag too as it's gutless unless you reving it hard. Which for cruising, of course it's not what you want. I think the problem is the RX8 is under powered for the type of car it is. The Jag isn't.
The RX8 can behave like a normal car if you don't push it. But it could really do with more bottom end torque to make it more relaxing. So the RX8 only really shines when you push it hard. But for a daily, it's better to have a more well rounded car. But if you not going to daily it, what is the point of a RX8? The whole selling point is the practical sports car thing. Rear seats and rear doors.
I have no problems with the driving position of the Jag. But I'm over 6'.1".
So if I would do a pros and cons list for both when compared to each other, I would put it this way, from more important to less important..
S-type pros: Way more comfortable, better finished, refined, classy, more spacious, more well rounded, more flexible engine, more reliable, cheaper to run, definitely MUCH less headaches, has more presence, more mature and upscale.
RX8 pros: more fun to drive when pushing, great cockpit, driving position is a bit nicer, sports car looks
S-type cons: much harder to find in the spec I want, will need mods to make it truly a blast.
RX8 cons: headache basket, less reliable, more expensive to run, smaller, gutless at the bottom end, harder to find one which has not been touched by the chav stick, the finishing is dreadful in comparison, no luxury, somehow doesn't have the same presence, if a G1. I think the car is too narrow. Makes it somehow look "budget" sport car.
From the top of my head that's it.
An RX8 isn't underpowered ... people not used to it just need to recalibrate their mental RPM gauge.
Round town, holding a gear until 5-6k rpm would be impossible in a diesel and obnoxious in a petrol. However, in a rotary, due to how smooth it is, it's perfectly fine and allows you to actually have a little get up & go when you need it. Sure - trying to pull from 1500rpm in 6th is not going to pull the skin off a rice pudding, but understanding you should never have been in 6th in the first place, and holding on to each gear as you go through the gears, will result in a much more effortless drive.
I found that on the road an RX8 did about 21mpg regardless of how you drive it. Drive like Miss Daisy and change gear as soon as the next gear will pull ... 21mpg. Use the full rev range and get a much smoother drive with power available whenever you need it as you're in the right gear for the power ... 21mpg. So give up on trying to get any decent fuel economy out of it and just drive it smoothly, in the power band.
Also, in my eyes, the RX8 was very long geared (although I now have a Porsche Boxster - which is even worse! ). The limiter in 2nd was 69mph and in 3rd was 97mph (both in my car & going off the speedo on the dash - it might vary by a mph or 2 in other examples). A lower diff ratio, where you hit the limiter in 2nd about 6-7mph earlier, would make for a better experience in my eyes.
Finally - rust. They rusted for fun. And not in the 'looks scabby but structurally sound' type of way. They rust in a 'nice and shiny up top, but a horror show underneath' sort of way. Always get under any RX8 you are thinking of buying and see which bits of it are still metal, and which bits have succumbed to Mazda's long term chassis lightening program! A good owner will be on top of this, but a bad owner will just see the nice shiny paintwork and not bother about the rest until it fails an MOT and is most likely beyond repair.
Have you considered the PZ version of the S1 RX8? The Prodrive developed suspension, along with the lighter wheels & styling bits, did sharpen up the RX8's look to me. Mazda then copied Prodrive's homework for the 40th Anniversary models, which are basically the same, but with Mazda bits rather than Prodrive bits. Either adds a bit of visual punch to a standard RX8.
Unfortunately I have absolutely no experience of an S-type - so cannot offer any sort of counterpoints ... but provided you can deal with the 'quirks' of a rotary engine (it will use oil / the oil level needs to be neither too high, nor too low / it will drink like a fish / it does need to be babied until fully up to temp and then thrashed regularly / unless there's proof of a recent rebuild, it will likely need a £3k engine rebuild sooner rather than later / the tax is punitive after March 2006), and can find a shell in decent condition, then there's no reason why an RX8 can't be family car when required and sports car when not.
Round town, holding a gear until 5-6k rpm would be impossible in a diesel and obnoxious in a petrol. However, in a rotary, due to how smooth it is, it's perfectly fine and allows you to actually have a little get up & go when you need it. Sure - trying to pull from 1500rpm in 6th is not going to pull the skin off a rice pudding, but understanding you should never have been in 6th in the first place, and holding on to each gear as you go through the gears, will result in a much more effortless drive.
I found that on the road an RX8 did about 21mpg regardless of how you drive it. Drive like Miss Daisy and change gear as soon as the next gear will pull ... 21mpg. Use the full rev range and get a much smoother drive with power available whenever you need it as you're in the right gear for the power ... 21mpg. So give up on trying to get any decent fuel economy out of it and just drive it smoothly, in the power band.
Also, in my eyes, the RX8 was very long geared (although I now have a Porsche Boxster - which is even worse!
). The limiter in 2nd was 69mph and in 3rd was 97mph (both in my car & going off the speedo on the dash - it might vary by a mph or 2 in other examples). A lower diff ratio, where you hit the limiter in 2nd about 6-7mph earlier, would make for a better experience in my eyes.Finally - rust. They rusted for fun. And not in the 'looks scabby but structurally sound' type of way. They rust in a 'nice and shiny up top, but a horror show underneath' sort of way. Always get under any RX8 you are thinking of buying and see which bits of it are still metal, and which bits have succumbed to Mazda's long term chassis lightening program! A good owner will be on top of this, but a bad owner will just see the nice shiny paintwork and not bother about the rest until it fails an MOT and is most likely beyond repair.
Have you considered the PZ version of the S1 RX8? The Prodrive developed suspension, along with the lighter wheels & styling bits, did sharpen up the RX8's look to me. Mazda then copied Prodrive's homework for the 40th Anniversary models, which are basically the same, but with Mazda bits rather than Prodrive bits. Either adds a bit of visual punch to a standard RX8.
Unfortunately I have absolutely no experience of an S-type - so cannot offer any sort of counterpoints ... but provided you can deal with the 'quirks' of a rotary engine (it will use oil / the oil level needs to be neither too high, nor too low / it will drink like a fish / it does need to be babied until fully up to temp and then thrashed regularly / unless there's proof of a recent rebuild, it will likely need a £3k engine rebuild sooner rather than later / the tax is punitive after March 2006), and can find a shell in decent condition, then there's no reason why an RX8 can't be family car when required and sports car when not.
Thanks for the detailed reply.
Although I will have to disagree the RX8 is not under powered. I think for a sports car it is under powered. I have heard that it's because it's not supposed to be a sports car. But then what it's supposed to be then? A GT it is not. Not comfortable and luxurious enough.
Rotary Potato said:
An RX8 isn't underpowered ... people not used to it just need to recalibrate their mental RPM gauge.
Round town, holding a gear until 5-6k rpm would be impossible in a diesel and obnoxious in a petrol. However, in a rotary, due to how smooth it is, it's perfectly fine and allows you to actually have a little get up & go when you need it. Sure - trying to pull from 1500rpm in 6th is not going to pull the skin off a rice pudding, but understanding you should never have been in 6th in the first place, and holding on to each gear as you go through the gears, will result in a much more effortless drive.
I found that on the road an RX8 did about 21mpg regardless of how you drive it. Drive like Miss Daisy and change gear as soon as the next gear will pull ... 21mpg. Use the full rev range and get a much smoother drive with power available whenever you need it as you're in the right gear for the power ... 21mpg. So give up on trying to get any decent fuel economy out of it and just drive it smoothly, in the power band.
Also, in my eyes, the RX8 was very long geared (although I now have a Porsche Boxster - which is even worse! ). The limiter in 2nd was 69mph and in 3rd was 97mph (both in my car & going off the speedo on the dash - it might vary by a mph or 2 in other examples). A lower diff ratio, where you hit the limiter in 2nd about 6-7mph earlier, would make for a better experience in my eyes.
Finally - rust. They rusted for fun. And not in the 'looks scabby but structurally sound' type of way. They rust in a 'nice and shiny up top, but a horror show underneath' sort of way. Always get under any RX8 you are thinking of buying and see which bits of it are still metal, and which bits have succumbed to Mazda's long term chassis lightening program! A good owner will be on top of this, but a bad owner will just see the nice shiny paintwork and not bother about the rest until it fails an MOT and is most likely beyond repair.
Have you considered the PZ version of the S1 RX8? The Prodrive developed suspension, along with the lighter wheels & styling bits, did sharpen up the RX8's look to me. Mazda then copied Prodrive's homework for the 40th Anniversary models, which are basically the same, but with Mazda bits rather than Prodrive bits. Either adds a bit of visual punch to a standard RX8.
Unfortunately I have absolutely no experience of an S-type - so cannot offer any sort of counterpoints ... but provided you can deal with the 'quirks' of a rotary engine (it will use oil / the oil level needs to be neither too high, nor too low / it will drink like a fish / it does need to be babied until fully up to temp and then thrashed regularly / unless there's proof of a recent rebuild, it will likely need a £3k engine rebuild sooner rather than later / the tax is punitive after March 2006), and can find a shell in decent condition, then there's no reason why an RX8 can't be family car when required and sports car when not.
A lot of useful info there. Round town, holding a gear until 5-6k rpm would be impossible in a diesel and obnoxious in a petrol. However, in a rotary, due to how smooth it is, it's perfectly fine and allows you to actually have a little get up & go when you need it. Sure - trying to pull from 1500rpm in 6th is not going to pull the skin off a rice pudding, but understanding you should never have been in 6th in the first place, and holding on to each gear as you go through the gears, will result in a much more effortless drive.
I found that on the road an RX8 did about 21mpg regardless of how you drive it. Drive like Miss Daisy and change gear as soon as the next gear will pull ... 21mpg. Use the full rev range and get a much smoother drive with power available whenever you need it as you're in the right gear for the power ... 21mpg. So give up on trying to get any decent fuel economy out of it and just drive it smoothly, in the power band.
Also, in my eyes, the RX8 was very long geared (although I now have a Porsche Boxster - which is even worse!
). The limiter in 2nd was 69mph and in 3rd was 97mph (both in my car & going off the speedo on the dash - it might vary by a mph or 2 in other examples). A lower diff ratio, where you hit the limiter in 2nd about 6-7mph earlier, would make for a better experience in my eyes.Finally - rust. They rusted for fun. And not in the 'looks scabby but structurally sound' type of way. They rust in a 'nice and shiny up top, but a horror show underneath' sort of way. Always get under any RX8 you are thinking of buying and see which bits of it are still metal, and which bits have succumbed to Mazda's long term chassis lightening program! A good owner will be on top of this, but a bad owner will just see the nice shiny paintwork and not bother about the rest until it fails an MOT and is most likely beyond repair.
Have you considered the PZ version of the S1 RX8? The Prodrive developed suspension, along with the lighter wheels & styling bits, did sharpen up the RX8's look to me. Mazda then copied Prodrive's homework for the 40th Anniversary models, which are basically the same, but with Mazda bits rather than Prodrive bits. Either adds a bit of visual punch to a standard RX8.
Unfortunately I have absolutely no experience of an S-type - so cannot offer any sort of counterpoints ... but provided you can deal with the 'quirks' of a rotary engine (it will use oil / the oil level needs to be neither too high, nor too low / it will drink like a fish / it does need to be babied until fully up to temp and then thrashed regularly / unless there's proof of a recent rebuild, it will likely need a £3k engine rebuild sooner rather than later / the tax is punitive after March 2006), and can find a shell in decent condition, then there's no reason why an RX8 can't be family car when required and sports car when not.
Although I will have to disagree the RX8 is not under powered. I think for a sports car it is under powered. I have heard that it's because it's not supposed to be a sports car. But then what it's supposed to be then? A GT it is not. Not comfortable and luxurious enough.
Wagonwheel555 said:
RX8 boot is about 70 litres smaller than a 1 series so as you mentioned kids, I assumed boot space was a factor but it seems not.
Why don’t you test drive both?
I would take an M140i over an RX8 every day of the week but each to their own.
I'd take a RX8 over a M140i given the baseball cap wearing knuckle draggers that drive 1-series round our way.Why don’t you test drive both?
I would take an M140i over an RX8 every day of the week but each to their own.
Gassing Station | Car Buying | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff