How the hell do people afford cars these days?
Discussion
pb8g09 said:
But people aren't changing their behaviours against these increasing living costs.
The roads in Bournemouth for example are full of people in their cars on every weekend for the last 3 months - traffic everywhere (I'm sad enough to make a mental note to monitor it week in week out) and the bars are still full when the sun is out. That's not behaviour of people that are concerned about their cost of living regardless of the individual anecdotes you're all giving
At the risk of being accused of being an out of touch Powerfully built director, I agree with this point of view.The roads in Bournemouth for example are full of people in their cars on every weekend for the last 3 months - traffic everywhere (I'm sad enough to make a mental note to monitor it week in week out) and the bars are still full when the sun is out. That's not behaviour of people that are concerned about their cost of living regardless of the individual anecdotes you're all giving
Try getting a reservation in a nice London restaurant, seems to me they have never been busier.
My office sometimes organises social events after work, I guess my colleagues earn similar to me so I was shocked to hear the office manager arranging the event date to be shortly after pay day for an event that costs £13. They all buy their lunch every day from Pret or wherever. I take my lunch to work.
LeighW said:
pb8g09 said:
LeighW said:
Some people are just like that though. I'm an accountant, I see the whole spectrum. From people past retirement age, still running a business, sitting on a pile of money they are unwilling to spend, to people who would have no money regardless of whether they made 30k or 300k. Money is like sand through the fingers for some. One juggles five or more credit cards to live, has no savings, no pension, always on expensive holidays etc. To look at them you'd think they were loaded. I don't know how some people sleep at night!
As I write this whilst in a meeting, a sales director next to me on 300k a year is buying lottery tickets and just checked his outstanding balance on klarna on his laptop. Sand through fingers is a great metaphor.
They have clearly come by their money too easily. If they worked down the pit they might have a different attitude to the money they earned.
pb8g09 said:
jimPH said:
Maybe he's filled his wife's and his ISA's
For context, he’s 49, divorced, kids are all grown up and spends all his time in central London out eating and drinking. I think the latter might be the reason for the credit...I have no idea what my colleagues earn.
jimPH said:
pb8g09 said:
jimPH said:
Maybe he's filled his wife's and his ISA's
For context, he’s 49, divorced, kids are all grown up and spends all his time in central London out eating and drinking. I think the latter might be the reason for the credit...I have no idea what my colleagues earn.
pb8g09 said:
But people aren't changing their behaviours against these increasing living costs.
The roads in Bournemouth for example are full of people in their cars on every weekend for the last 3 months - traffic everywhere (I'm sad enough to make a mental note to monitor it week in week out) and the bars are still full when the sun is out. That's not behaviour of people that are concerned about their cost of living regardless of the individual anecdotes you're all giving
There’s loads of money (and as a result inflation) in the economy thanks to the cant Sunak panicking in COVID and giving £billions away to anybody that qualified for his harebrained schemes. Groundworkers I deal with are getting £100k a year because new build residential can’t get built quick enough and these are literally the thickest cants who dig holes in the ground and fill them with concrete for a living.The roads in Bournemouth for example are full of people in their cars on every weekend for the last 3 months - traffic everywhere (I'm sad enough to make a mental note to monitor it week in week out) and the bars are still full when the sun is out. That's not behaviour of people that are concerned about their cost of living regardless of the individual anecdotes you're all giving
Franco5 said:
There’s loads of money (and as a result inflation) in the economy thanks to the cant Sunak panicking in COVID and giving billions away to anybody that qualified for his harebrained schemes. Groundworkers I deal with are getting 100k a year because new build residential can’t get built quick enough and these are literally the thickest cants who dig holes in the ground and fill them with concrete for a living.
Indeed I know of self employed folk who took out these bounce back loans and went straight to a LR garage to buy a RR, others who stuck it in to a S&S ISA and will pay back the loan the moment they’re asked to. Random instances of £1000 local authority covid grants showing up in people’s accounts too. And the same non-PAYE folk benefitting from EVs where they offset monthly rentals against their company profits. I think regrettably we need a little hardship to redress this nonsense and let the cream rise above the water etc. We’re great at propping up elements of the system which just serves to perpetuate this.
ukpolak said:
Indeed I know of self employed folk who took out these bounce back loans and went straight to a LR garage to buy a RR, others who stuck it in to a S&S ISA and will pay back the loan the moment they’re asked to. Random instances of 1000 local authority covid grants showing up in people’s accounts too. And the same non-PAYE folk benefitting from EVs where they offset monthly rentals against their company profits.
I think regrettably we need a little hardship to redress this nonsense and let the cream rise above the water etc. We’re great at propping up elements of the system which just serves to perpetuate this.
The same non-PAYE folk who qualified for fI think regrettably we need a little hardship to redress this nonsense and let the cream rise above the water etc. We’re great at propping up elements of the system which just serves to perpetuate this.
k all benefits other than a repayable loan? Sounds like a monumental chip on your shoulder.
On the subject of cost of living its been 3/4 years since the industry introduced actual affordability tests for anyone using on pcp/car finance agreements. Before that it was self cert which could have been a big mess but now in theory these recent increases should have been accounted for on any current deals.
It's all relative of course as 200 to 400 even for middle income families is a big rise indeed its like taking on another car.
It's all relative of course as 200 to 400 even for middle income families is a big rise indeed its like taking on another car.
jimPH said:
pb8g09 said:
jimPH said:
Maybe he's filled his wife's and his ISA's
For context, he’s 49, divorced, kids are all grown up and spends all his time in central London out eating and drinking. I think the latter might be the reason for the credit...I have no idea what my colleagues earn.
Franco5 said:
There’s loads of money (and as a result inflation) in the economy thanks to the cant Sunak panicking in COVID and giving billions away to anybody that qualified for his harebrained schemes. Groundworkers I deal with are getting 100k a year because new build residential can’t get built quick enough and these are literally the thickest cants who dig holes in the ground and fill them with concrete for a living.
Seen it before at how quickly money can dry up in the system. It's surprising that once the economy starts to slows its the "think cants" who suddenly find themselves either a, Doing the same work for less or b, Out of work. At the minute the whole jobs market is strong but each part relies on another to function and grow. Once people start losing their jobs or even a risk of that happening they cut back on spending, don't take on a new mortgage or go out as often. Without this activity construction work slows for both commercial and residential builds. We are not there yet, but recession risk is high and levels of debt in this country mainly in overpriced assets is a real risk factor for personal wealth. pb8g09 said:
Superflow said:
Yes I can well believe it.It amazes me that some cannot believe that this stuff goes on .
It most certainly does and women are very competitive.I remember when my kids were at primary and speaking with mums who were letting each other know about there next car,house extension or expensive holiday.
I'm in legal at a big pharma and our CEO/CFO/COO all drove Bentleys, Astons, Ferraris, Rolls Royce, 911s - these cars were leased on a 2 year deal, except the Ferrari. Also, these were their daily drivers except the Ferrari. I worked closely with such colleagues, you know, attendeding VIP events, play tennis/golf with clients, etc. These individuals' financial advisors prohibit them from buying cars outright or sign PCP deals unless it is something that will appreciate in value. Their salaries ranged from £300k up to £1.5m p/a - they can easily afford to buy a MK8 Golf R outright but their finance advisors state that this is not a cost effective option - every penny counts when you want to increase your assets/net worth.
Me on the other hand - purchased some used cars outright; purchased one car via PCP which ended after 28 days due to engine failure; looked into leasing cars during the last 2 years but the market is too silly nowadays so I never jumped on this wagon. I have a good salary, I own two properties and one has its mortgage paid off in full which I have just accepted an offer for sale; other property has half of its mortgage paid off. I have a wife, kids and a dog - I'm in mid 30s and believe it or not I came from one of those benefits street type of areas (grew up living in a council house).
Bought a used Volvo as a daily work horse for family and I paid cash based on advice received from one of the CEO's finance advisors I still keep in touch. I want a "new sports car" but can't grasp an idea of spending money on a depreciating asset, unless I buy something exotic, but then I'll need to look at it sat in my garage and drive it once a year to retain its value as much as possible. So in my position I'll more than likely buy something that won't depreciate a lot due to age, like a 16 plate 911 S. I'll factor its maintenance and any unexpected bills and to me personally, paying cash in full will be the most cost effective option.
I'll tell you the problem in England and why the leasing market became so popular during the last 4 years (I'm not talking about the latest COVID or chip shortage fiasco) and the cost of leasing cars is now too expensive. It is all because of badge snobiness and reg snobiness. It's the younger generation or those without any soind knowledge of managing monies; living in rough areas but have latest reg BMWs parked outside that they can barely afford to make payments on because it's important what other people will think - SM and influencers that impact on the thinking of lower IQ individuals. In our company, customer services employees who were on £21k (their other halves were on something like £26k, so a combined of £47k before deductions) drove brand spanking new reg cars and so did their other halves, but they lived in a not so nice estate and told me they can't go out as they can't afford it and need to save on a holiday - I'm talking about going out to a local pub, not Mahiki in Mayfair.
TL;DR - the majority of people can barely afford to make payments on their flashy PCP/leased cars. They're scraping and do not have a sound knowledge of how to manage finance properly. They're not thinking beyond today. They are badge/reg snobs who find it important what others may think about them when they park their cars in a work car park / McDonalds. Lease market has been going up since 4 years ago and when you factor the latest events, it has gone even more, yet the lease forums on here is filled with people asking if an A4 S Line deal for £420 a month with 9m initial is a good deal or not. My two pence.
Me on the other hand - purchased some used cars outright; purchased one car via PCP which ended after 28 days due to engine failure; looked into leasing cars during the last 2 years but the market is too silly nowadays so I never jumped on this wagon. I have a good salary, I own two properties and one has its mortgage paid off in full which I have just accepted an offer for sale; other property has half of its mortgage paid off. I have a wife, kids and a dog - I'm in mid 30s and believe it or not I came from one of those benefits street type of areas (grew up living in a council house).
Bought a used Volvo as a daily work horse for family and I paid cash based on advice received from one of the CEO's finance advisors I still keep in touch. I want a "new sports car" but can't grasp an idea of spending money on a depreciating asset, unless I buy something exotic, but then I'll need to look at it sat in my garage and drive it once a year to retain its value as much as possible. So in my position I'll more than likely buy something that won't depreciate a lot due to age, like a 16 plate 911 S. I'll factor its maintenance and any unexpected bills and to me personally, paying cash in full will be the most cost effective option.
I'll tell you the problem in England and why the leasing market became so popular during the last 4 years (I'm not talking about the latest COVID or chip shortage fiasco) and the cost of leasing cars is now too expensive. It is all because of badge snobiness and reg snobiness. It's the younger generation or those without any soind knowledge of managing monies; living in rough areas but have latest reg BMWs parked outside that they can barely afford to make payments on because it's important what other people will think - SM and influencers that impact on the thinking of lower IQ individuals. In our company, customer services employees who were on £21k (their other halves were on something like £26k, so a combined of £47k before deductions) drove brand spanking new reg cars and so did their other halves, but they lived in a not so nice estate and told me they can't go out as they can't afford it and need to save on a holiday - I'm talking about going out to a local pub, not Mahiki in Mayfair.
TL;DR - the majority of people can barely afford to make payments on their flashy PCP/leased cars. They're scraping and do not have a sound knowledge of how to manage finance properly. They're not thinking beyond today. They are badge/reg snobs who find it important what others may think about them when they park their cars in a work car park / McDonalds. Lease market has been going up since 4 years ago and when you factor the latest events, it has gone even more, yet the lease forums on here is filled with people asking if an A4 S Line deal for £420 a month with 9m initial is a good deal or not. My two pence.
Firstly congratulations you seem like you're doing very well for yourself, and it was interesting to read your side of things especially about your bosses!
Totally agree on the badge snobs. I come from the Max Power/Fast & Furious/Gran Turismo era and for me it's saddest thing seeing the younguns aim for a leased A-Class, rather than buying an old banger and making it their own... which is what it was all about for me, and still is to be fair.
I've spent near-on £10k on a couple of cars in my life but in all honesty I didn't enjoy the experience... of having that much money wrapped up in a car, depreciation, worried about carparking dents etc. I reduced my outlay after that and am much happier for it. When I bought my most recent car it had a damaged front bumper, so I got it repaired and had an entire front end respray. Since then, two people have knocked into the bumper and scratched paint off
whilst other humans exist, it just isn't worth having 'too' nice things!
I recently chucked on the new series of Pimp my Ride with my 5yr old (who is car mad) and it was nice to see this 19yr old chap who, honestly, could have been me back in the days. I guess there are still some people out there with a genuine passion.
I think it's always a bit sad to have to care about what others think so much in any situation really. Like in another thread recently where someone wouldn't dare own a brand new Cupra as it didn't suit his image! Madness!
Totally agree on the badge snobs. I come from the Max Power/Fast & Furious/Gran Turismo era and for me it's saddest thing seeing the younguns aim for a leased A-Class, rather than buying an old banger and making it their own... which is what it was all about for me, and still is to be fair.
I've spent near-on £10k on a couple of cars in my life but in all honesty I didn't enjoy the experience... of having that much money wrapped up in a car, depreciation, worried about carparking dents etc. I reduced my outlay after that and am much happier for it. When I bought my most recent car it had a damaged front bumper, so I got it repaired and had an entire front end respray. Since then, two people have knocked into the bumper and scratched paint off
whilst other humans exist, it just isn't worth having 'too' nice things!I recently chucked on the new series of Pimp my Ride with my 5yr old (who is car mad) and it was nice to see this 19yr old chap who, honestly, could have been me back in the days. I guess there are still some people out there with a genuine passion.
I think it's always a bit sad to have to care about what others think so much in any situation really. Like in another thread recently where someone wouldn't dare own a brand new Cupra as it didn't suit his image! Madness!
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