EVs... no one wants them!
Discussion
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/2023031853...
Some people just don't want to sell their car. £18k Model S. Yes that's Model S, not "M3", to avoid any confusion.
152k, door actuators are bust, only £30/ pop apparently but the seller can't be arsed to do them, nor sort the cracked windscreen. Honestly, what a shed.
Some people just don't want to sell their car. £18k Model S. Yes that's Model S, not "M3", to avoid any confusion.
152k, door actuators are bust, only £30/ pop apparently but the seller can't be arsed to do them, nor sort the cracked windscreen. Honestly, what a shed.
J1990 said:
Rich135 said:
Still Mulling said:
squirdan said:
finance through Oracle (car finance brokers...excellent)...its some kind of EV specific offer (not sure the underlying lender tbh)
Scott Medley is my contact 01423 647622. Tell him Dan sent you
key is the very strong residual values used to generate the GFV (aka the balloon payment)
he told me the numbers work really well on Polestar 2, Jag ipace and Audi E tron
basically its because these kind of cars have all just taken a bath value wise...
it makes sense if you want to hand the car back after 2 years...probably doesnt if you want to buy it at the end (as will have no "equity" in the car and the GFV could be more than its actually worth)
Thank you. Scott Medley is my contact 01423 647622. Tell him Dan sent you
key is the very strong residual values used to generate the GFV (aka the balloon payment)
he told me the numbers work really well on Polestar 2, Jag ipace and Audi E tron
basically its because these kind of cars have all just taken a bath value wise...
it makes sense if you want to hand the car back after 2 years...probably doesnt if you want to buy it at the end (as will have no "equity" in the car and the GFV could be more than its actually worth)
I currently have a Model 3 LR, but it will be going back to the lease company soon, and I wouldn't mind a Polestar 2.
2021 i-Pace HSE £42k - £6124 deposit + £294/month (Amortised to £549.16/month) https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202212012...
2021 Polestar 2 Long Range £36.5k - £4690 deposit + £260/month (Amortised to £455.42/month) https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202303135...
I still have a couple of months so will try nearer the time.
Macron said:
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/2023031853...
Some people just don't want to sell their car. £18k Model S. Yes that's Model S, not "M3", to avoid any confusion.
152k, door actuators are bust, only £30/ pop apparently but the seller can't be arsed to do them, nor sort the cracked windscreen. Honestly, what a shed.
Advertised as an 85, but it says 'Model S 60' on the in-car screen pictured.Some people just don't want to sell their car. £18k Model S. Yes that's Model S, not "M3", to avoid any confusion.
152k, door actuators are bust, only £30/ pop apparently but the seller can't be arsed to do them, nor sort the cracked windscreen. Honestly, what a shed.
Here is a salutory lesson:
"I bought my 68 plate i pace in May 2021. It came with 2 years extended warranty on it so I'm covered till May 2023. The original manufacturing warranty ran out in Feb 2022. I woke up to a drivers side footwell full of water on Monday and it has been confirmed that a faulty windscreen has caused this. However the extended warranty that I took out with Jaguar when I bought the car under their approved used car scheme does not cover water ingress. Therefore I am not entitled to a courtesy car, I am not entitled to have the windscreen fixed under warranty and I'm not entitled to have the sodden carpets replaced. The windscreen is on backorder and no ETA so I am effectively with no car now and I have to pay for it all myself. Never ever again am I buying a jaguar. This is a known problem and I even had their used car extended warranty till May 2023!! Absolutely shocking service"
"I bought my 68 plate i pace in May 2021. It came with 2 years extended warranty on it so I'm covered till May 2023. The original manufacturing warranty ran out in Feb 2022. I woke up to a drivers side footwell full of water on Monday and it has been confirmed that a faulty windscreen has caused this. However the extended warranty that I took out with Jaguar when I bought the car under their approved used car scheme does not cover water ingress. Therefore I am not entitled to a courtesy car, I am not entitled to have the windscreen fixed under warranty and I'm not entitled to have the sodden carpets replaced. The windscreen is on backorder and no ETA so I am effectively with no car now and I have to pay for it all myself. Never ever again am I buying a jaguar. This is a known problem and I even had their used car extended warranty till May 2023!! Absolutely shocking service"
barryrs said:
Jaguar are offering 24 months warranty on approved used I-Paces at the moment.
I have just managed to rid myself of my EQA 350 company car
So many problems in the first few months of ownership the lease company gave me the option of early termination at no cost.
I’ve opted back out of the scheme and bought myself another petrol car.
It’s probably been mentioned loads already, but the problem is the infrastructure just isn’t up to the current level of electric vehicles and I don’t see any evidence of that changing anytime soon.
Also if you do charge “out and about” the cost is ridiculous £70 to do 200 miles… FRO.
So many problems in the first few months of ownership the lease company gave me the option of early termination at no cost.
I’ve opted back out of the scheme and bought myself another petrol car.
It’s probably been mentioned loads already, but the problem is the infrastructure just isn’t up to the current level of electric vehicles and I don’t see any evidence of that changing anytime soon.
Also if you do charge “out and about” the cost is ridiculous £70 to do 200 miles… FRO.
robemcdonald said:
Also if you do charge “out and about” the cost is ridiculous £70 to do 200 miles… FRO.
Jeez I've got 6 litre V12 that will just about do 200 miles on £70 (on a cruise that is) but that sounds expensive. One of the reasons we only charge ours at home and thus restricted to local duties only. Cheap as chips that way and removes the whole stress thing of charging while out and about.Totally agree that the current set up can be both stressful and Inadequate for the modern world.
Switched to my first EV on Wednesday. BMW iX3 M Sport Pro. What a brilliant car.
Quiet, smooth and very refined. Fantastic to drive. Excellent fit and finish with soft touch materials everywhere and proper buttons.
The level of refinement compared to ICE is something else. I can't see any ICE of similar cost and class coming close with the overall experience. It really does feel like entering a new era of motoring.
I get this is a premium model, but cheaper electrics are coming.
On the negative side, there is a trade-off. EVs are too complicated for the regular public in my opinion where we are used to 'fill and go' simplicity. EVs are anything but that.
Average Joe needs to understand: charger port types, AC/DC, complicated EV energy tariffs, home charger market (it's quickly becoming a minefield), tethered Vs untethered, pre heating, kWh conversions and 'engine' size, charging subscriptions and apps, all the faff with public charging and extensive route planning.
I tried my first public charge on the weekend. Contactless wouldn't work. In the middle of nowhere I had to download an app, register my name, details and password, input payment details, find charger on map. Decipher which charger the app was referring to out of the 4 available (no signage)...then it took 3 attempts to get the charging session started. Has anyone mentioned how heavy hypercharge cables are? This one could do 150kW+ and my wife simply wouldn't be able to lift it up. It's heavy and awkward to manoeuvre.
Wonderful experience once it's working, but many teething issues - some quite serious - that need to be fixed.
Quiet, smooth and very refined. Fantastic to drive. Excellent fit and finish with soft touch materials everywhere and proper buttons.
The level of refinement compared to ICE is something else. I can't see any ICE of similar cost and class coming close with the overall experience. It really does feel like entering a new era of motoring.
I get this is a premium model, but cheaper electrics are coming.
On the negative side, there is a trade-off. EVs are too complicated for the regular public in my opinion where we are used to 'fill and go' simplicity. EVs are anything but that.
Average Joe needs to understand: charger port types, AC/DC, complicated EV energy tariffs, home charger market (it's quickly becoming a minefield), tethered Vs untethered, pre heating, kWh conversions and 'engine' size, charging subscriptions and apps, all the faff with public charging and extensive route planning.
I tried my first public charge on the weekend. Contactless wouldn't work. In the middle of nowhere I had to download an app, register my name, details and password, input payment details, find charger on map. Decipher which charger the app was referring to out of the 4 available (no signage)...then it took 3 attempts to get the charging session started. Has anyone mentioned how heavy hypercharge cables are? This one could do 150kW+ and my wife simply wouldn't be able to lift it up. It's heavy and awkward to manoeuvre.
Wonderful experience once it's working, but many teething issues - some quite serious - that need to be fixed.
FWIW said:
robemcdonald said:
Also if you do charge “out and about” the cost is ridiculous £70 to do 200 miles… FRO.
Calcs on this? Seems you have the most inefficient EV and charged at the most expensive charger you could find.
I used the charger closest to my parents house in Hampshire. It was at a Costa coffee between new Milton and Christchurch. I charged from 50% to 100%. The charger was 50 kw, so not even that fast. It was a Friday night and cost £0.87 / kWh.
34 kWh @ £0.87 is £29.58.
The average efficiency for the 5 months I had the car was 2.9 mi/kW.
2.9 x 66 kWh = 191 miles range.
To charge from 0-100% would be £0.87 x 66 = £57.42
Cost per mile is £57.42 / 191 = £0.30 /mile
So actually £60 for the 200 miles.
I got my EV 3 weeks ago.
So far, so good. It definitely takes some getting used to and you need to plan stuff, but for me the range thing isn’t an issue
I went from the Midlands to Southampton on Tuesday morning, charged up a bit at our office, then headed to Oxford and jumped on a public charger there for a couple of hours at a very reasonable rate and then went home with plenty of range to spare.
The car is smooth, super-refined and the performance is great. My only criticism that’s EV-related (possibly) are the slightly spongy brakes.
So far, so good. It definitely takes some getting used to and you need to plan stuff, but for me the range thing isn’t an issue
I went from the Midlands to Southampton on Tuesday morning, charged up a bit at our office, then headed to Oxford and jumped on a public charger there for a couple of hours at a very reasonable rate and then went home with plenty of range to spare.
The car is smooth, super-refined and the performance is great. My only criticism that’s EV-related (possibly) are the slightly spongy brakes.
robemcdonald said:
It might be a tad of a high estimate.
I used the charger closest to my parents house in Hampshire. It was at a Costa coffee between new Milton and Christchurch. I charged from 50% to 100%. The charger was 50 kw, so not even that fast. It was a Friday night and cost £0.87 / kWh.
34 kWh @ £0.87 is £29.58.
The average efficiency for the 5 months I had the car was 2.9 mi/kW.
2.9 x 66 kWh = 191 miles range.
To charge from 0-100% would be £0.87 x 66 = £57.42
Cost per mile is £57.42 / 191 = £0.30 /mile
So actually £60 for the 200 miles.
As a comparison, I have done 17k miles I’m my Tesla model Y long range in just under 6 months, I have averaged 3.3 miles per KWh and pay an average of around 35p per KWh hour using a combination of Tesla and other public chargers.I used the charger closest to my parents house in Hampshire. It was at a Costa coffee between new Milton and Christchurch. I charged from 50% to 100%. The charger was 50 kw, so not even that fast. It was a Friday night and cost £0.87 / kWh.
34 kWh @ £0.87 is £29.58.
The average efficiency for the 5 months I had the car was 2.9 mi/kW.
2.9 x 66 kWh = 191 miles range.
To charge from 0-100% would be £0.87 x 66 = £57.42
Cost per mile is £57.42 / 191 = £0.30 /mile
So actually £60 for the 200 miles.
It has a 75KWh usable battery capacity giving a winter range of around 247 miles and a cost per mile of 10.6 pence so approximately one third of the cost.
Teslas are not close to being perfect but at the moment they are the best choice for anybody doing long journeys due to the combination of range, efficiency, charging network and extremely accurate range prediction.
robemcdonald said:
Also. My home tariff is £0.36 / kW (which is expensive, but you just can’t change energy suppliers at the moment)
You absolutely can. I moved to Octopus in September.Having an EV and making use of off peak tariffs are probably the only reason you would move at the moment though.
robemcdonald said:
It might be a tad of a high estimate.
I used the charger closest to my parents house in Hampshire. It was at a Costa coffee between new Milton and Christchurch. I charged from 50% to 100%. The charger was 50 kw, so not even that fast. It was a Friday night and cost £0.87 / kWh.
34 kWh @ £0.87 is £29.58.
The average efficiency for the 5 months I had the car was 2.9 mi/kW.
2.9 x 66 kWh = 191 miles range.
To charge from 0-100% would be £0.87 x 66 = £57.42
Cost per mile is £57.42 / 191 = £0.30 /mile
So actually £60 for the 200 miles.
Thanks. £70 wasn’t far off…I used the charger closest to my parents house in Hampshire. It was at a Costa coffee between new Milton and Christchurch. I charged from 50% to 100%. The charger was 50 kw, so not even that fast. It was a Friday night and cost £0.87 / kWh.
34 kWh @ £0.87 is £29.58.
The average efficiency for the 5 months I had the car was 2.9 mi/kW.
2.9 x 66 kWh = 191 miles range.
To charge from 0-100% would be £0.87 x 66 = £57.42
Cost per mile is £57.42 / 191 = £0.30 /mile
So actually £60 for the 200 miles.
…for a very inefficient EV at the most expensive charger you could find.
It’s not very useful to give outlier examples like this. It would be equally relevant for me to give a similar example using my local (free) charger and claiming 0ppm…
Macron said:
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/2023031853...
Some people just don't want to sell their car. £18k Model S. Yes that's Model S, not "M3", to avoid any confusion.
152k, door actuators are bust, only £30/ pop apparently but the seller can't be arsed to do them, nor sort the cracked windscreen. Honestly, what a shed.
Something not right with that advert. 2014 Model S should have 'free for life' Supercharging that's transferable to the new owners unless the original owner didn't pay for Supercharging capability when new (I think it was 'optional' on the very first UK vars??). Some people just don't want to sell their car. £18k Model S. Yes that's Model S, not "M3", to avoid any confusion.
152k, door actuators are bust, only £30/ pop apparently but the seller can't be arsed to do them, nor sort the cracked windscreen. Honestly, what a shed.
There is no such thing as a 'battery service' and if Tesla replaced the motor it'll be under some kind of warranty even if the original factory warranty is gone.
If the original factory motor/battery warranty is gone, the cost of refurbished battery pack from Tesla is something like £9k or £18k for a 'brandnew' 85kWh pack.
Models S door handles have had several redesigns, the parts aren't expensive but replacing them isn't all that easy.
I see this is a 60 pack 2014 car, so it might actually be one of the few cars spec new with no Supercharging!! Original 60 pack battery wasn't great either for degradation at 100k it'll be due a new one soon, I don't even know Tesla supply refurbed 60 packs, so budget £18k for a new pack.
Still if its no crash damaged £40k for a true 250-300 mile EV isn't bad, but add in wear and tear on a car that clearly isn't cared for and has worked hard and its a much harder sell.
A low mileage cheap P85+ with free for life Supercharging is the unicorn used S am waiting for
.Edited by gangzoom on Thursday 23 March 07:00
gangzoom said:
A low mileage cheap P85+ with free for life Supercharging is the unicorn used S am waiting for .
At sub 20k with any sort of warranty there would be quite a queue!.Edited by gangzoom on Thursday 23 March 07:00
Question on repairs, there was thought to be a 3rd party industry emerging to do this, is that really the case yet?
Toyota battery repairs look like cells from crash damaged cars being swapped over, plenty of marques look like back to the dealer only. Anyone know any better? Someone linked to an "EV friendly garage" lost recently, I looked close to me and like f
k do any of them have anything specific for EV's. FWIW said:
robemcdonald said:
It might be a tad of a high estimate.
I used the charger closest to my parents house in Hampshire. It was at a Costa coffee between new Milton and Christchurch. I charged from 50% to 100%. The charger was 50 kw, so not even that fast. It was a Friday night and cost £0.87 / kWh.
34 kWh @ £0.87 is £29.58.
The average efficiency for the 5 months I had the car was 2.9 mi/kW.
2.9 x 66 kWh = 191 miles range.
To charge from 0-100% would be £0.87 x 66 = £57.42
Cost per mile is £57.42 / 191 = £0.30 /mile
So actually £60 for the 200 miles.
Thanks. £70 wasn’t far off…I used the charger closest to my parents house in Hampshire. It was at a Costa coffee between new Milton and Christchurch. I charged from 50% to 100%. The charger was 50 kw, so not even that fast. It was a Friday night and cost £0.87 / kWh.
34 kWh @ £0.87 is £29.58.
The average efficiency for the 5 months I had the car was 2.9 mi/kW.
2.9 x 66 kWh = 191 miles range.
To charge from 0-100% would be £0.87 x 66 = £57.42
Cost per mile is £57.42 / 191 = £0.30 /mile
So actually £60 for the 200 miles.
…for a very inefficient EV at the most expensive charger you could find.
It’s not very useful to give outlier examples like this. It would be equally relevant for me to give a similar example using my local (free) charger and claiming 0ppm…
Roughly 350 miles (250 if I'd gone directly home), car readout was indicating around 61mpg. Filled up to c£39, topped it up to exactly £40.00. = 58.2 mpg - that gives the car an effective range of c. 850 miles.
I have the use of my sister Model S for a month, as she's gone to India. It will be interesting to see the cost when I collect V2 at the end of the month.
Rich135 said:
J1990 said:
Rich135 said:
Still Mulling said:
squirdan said:
finance through Oracle (car finance brokers...excellent)...its some kind of EV specific offer (not sure the underlying lender tbh)
Scott Medley is my contact 01423 647622. Tell him Dan sent you
key is the very strong residual values used to generate the GFV (aka the balloon payment)
he told me the numbers work really well on Polestar 2, Jag ipace and Audi E tron
basically its because these kind of cars have all just taken a bath value wise...
it makes sense if you want to hand the car back after 2 years...probably doesnt if you want to buy it at the end (as will have no "equity" in the car and the GFV could be more than its actually worth)
Thank you. Scott Medley is my contact 01423 647622. Tell him Dan sent you
key is the very strong residual values used to generate the GFV (aka the balloon payment)
he told me the numbers work really well on Polestar 2, Jag ipace and Audi E tron
basically its because these kind of cars have all just taken a bath value wise...
it makes sense if you want to hand the car back after 2 years...probably doesnt if you want to buy it at the end (as will have no "equity" in the car and the GFV could be more than its actually worth)
I currently have a Model 3 LR, but it will be going back to the lease company soon, and I wouldn't mind a Polestar 2.
2021 i-Pace HSE £42k - £6124 deposit + £294/month (Amortised to £549.16/month) https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202212012...
2021 Polestar 2 Long Range £36.5k - £4690 deposit + £260/month (Amortised to £455.42/month) https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202303135...
I still have a couple of months so will try nearer the time.
We took our larger dog to the showrooms last night (after calling ahead to check) and unfortunately the maximum boot height of 66cm in the i-Pace and 64cm in the Polestar means that the mrs told me to keep looking. Most likely outcome is the Tucson gets extended for a year and simply delay this decision for another day...
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