Best smoker barges 1-5 large [Vol 22]
Discussion
Talk of high miles cars has got me to thinking; has anyone dyno'd their higher miles car to see how it fairs against factory spec?
When I had my old E500 sympathetically enhanced by messrs Acid et al of the Old Armoury, the first step was to check the health and vigour of the old chap. On their very expensive dynamometer, well-calibrated to the transmission losses of a 7g-tronic drivetrain, it was knocking out 306ps +/-5ps on each run before everything got too hot. That was at around 90k miles IIRC (so not high mileage by some standards), and is counter the "cars lose lots of power over time" spiel that some trot out. It was healthy enough that they were able to extract approx 340ps (again, verified on the very same dyno) before good old Torricelli thwarted any reliable improvement above and beyond.
TLDR: a well-serviced old boy still has as much vim and vigour as he always had.
When I had my old E500 sympathetically enhanced by messrs Acid et al of the Old Armoury, the first step was to check the health and vigour of the old chap. On their very expensive dynamometer, well-calibrated to the transmission losses of a 7g-tronic drivetrain, it was knocking out 306ps +/-5ps on each run before everything got too hot. That was at around 90k miles IIRC (so not high mileage by some standards), and is counter the "cars lose lots of power over time" spiel that some trot out. It was healthy enough that they were able to extract approx 340ps (again, verified on the very same dyno) before good old Torricelli thwarted any reliable improvement above and beyond.
TLDR: a well-serviced old boy still has as much vim and vigour as he always had.
Anecdotally and with my bottom barometer, I find that my E500 knocking on for 210k revs more freely and runs more sweetly than it ever has done. We they able to extract 340ps from the M113? How?
Also, my understanding is that the dynometer is relative given the different equipment available from factory -- so the gains are relative to the reading of the machine.
Also, my understanding is that the dynometer is relative given the different equipment available from factory -- so the gains are relative to the reading of the machine.
donkmeister said:
Talk of high miles cars has got me to thinking; has anyone dyno'd their higher miles car to see how it fairs against factory spec?
When I had my old E500 sympathetically enhanced by messrs Acid et al of the Old Armoury, the first step was to check the health and vigour of the old chap. On their very expensive dynamometer, well-calibrated to the transmission losses of a 7g-tronic drivetrain, it was knocking out 306ps +/-5ps on each run before everything got too hot. That was at around 90k miles IIRC (so not high mileage by some standards), and is counter the "cars lose lots of power over time" spiel that some trot out. It was healthy enough that they were able to extract approx 340ps (again, verified on the very same dyno) before good old Torricelli thwarted any reliable improvement above and beyond.
TLDR: a well-serviced old boy still has as much vim and vigour as he always had.
Agree, modern carns will make full power until they're fWhen I had my old E500 sympathetically enhanced by messrs Acid et al of the Old Armoury, the first step was to check the health and vigour of the old chap. On their very expensive dynamometer, well-calibrated to the transmission losses of a 7g-tronic drivetrain, it was knocking out 306ps +/-5ps on each run before everything got too hot. That was at around 90k miles IIRC (so not high mileage by some standards), and is counter the "cars lose lots of power over time" spiel that some trot out. It was healthy enough that they were able to extract approx 340ps (again, verified on the very same dyno) before good old Torricelli thwarted any reliable improvement above and beyond.
TLDR: a well-serviced old boy still has as much vim and vigour as he always had.
ked. I followed WorldBoss in their 260k mile S600 in my 70k mile S600 to the Duxford meet and both cars performed identically. Direct Injected cars can lose power, VAG turds are famous for it, but my 155k XKR puts in numbers above book (I suspect it might be mapped).Old carb's turds could go out of tune, coke up etc which is where it comes from I suppose. Or in the case of the Topgear supercars their power figures were bulls
t to start with.W00DY said:
The plan is Z4, then van, then Insignia. I don't like selling cars though so one will do.
Tell us more of this Z4. I hate selling cars, better to do it in thread 
bolidemichael said:
Port v Direct injection is a primary cause for a loss of engineering integrity.
Does mean >500 bhp and 20mpg with none of the knock limitation and sensitivity to heat soaking of the old port injected monsters though.Most manufacturers seem to have got the valve fouling issue under control up to big miles now, and the more diligent manufactuers (toyota) have mixed DI and PI.
W.R.T. the tax on post 2006 barges I think it is at the level where it's really killing them. If you have some old smoker convertible you want to do 1500 miles a year in you're looking at 50p a mile in RFL alone if you don't dick about declaring it SORN. Normal people used to keep the likes of an older SL or XK as a hobby but coughing up £800 for nothing before you even turn a wheel rather poisons the experience. How unlike government to try and destroy something nice.
Edited by GeniusOfLove on Thursday 2nd April 13:22
W00DY said:
The plan is Z4, then van, then Insignia. I don't like selling cars though so one will do.
Commiserations - I'm selling my E350 right now because it failed its MOT with rust and I cannot wait to be rid of it purely because of the sheer number of weirdos calling and messaging me. It makes me think that the reason I'm usually able to haggle a reasonable chunk off the asking prices of cars when I buy them is because people are just relieved to have someone relatively sane turn up when they say they will.
trevalvole said:
GeniusOfLove said:
Most manufacturers seem to have got the valve fouling issue under control up to big miles now, and the more diligent manufactuers (toyota) have mixed DI and PI.
VW started mixing DI and PI in around 2013, but Toyota got there first, in 2008 iirc.bolidemichael said:
Anecdotally and with my bottom barometer, I find that my E500 knocking on for 210k revs more freely and runs more sweetly than it ever has done. We they able to extract 340ps from the M113? How?
Also, my understanding is that the dynometer is relative given the different equipment available from factory -- so the gains are relative to the reading of the machine.
The M113 in the E500 is legendarily unstressed. 5 litres and 306bhp but with twin spark and a fancy active intake manifold to ensure good mixture at all rpm, the architecture was designed to take more. We'll never know but I bet the 306bhp was driven more by marketing than engineering (must have more than 300. But can't be too close to the AMG models!).Also, my understanding is that the dynometer is relative given the different equipment available from factory -- so the gains are relative to the reading of the machine.
The limit is the intake air flow. This is why an early but no longer economical tuning option was a Kleemann supercharger kit to stuff more air in and get 400+bhp. Everything else in the engine is more than man enough.
So, the 340ps was about the limit of what could be achieved without ending up with over fuelling in certain conditions. Also removed the 250kph limiter (I had to take their word for that as my autobahn trip never arose).
Dynos can indeed be used to flatter owners and tuners alike, but this was a properly calibrated set up and given it was run by Britain's foremost Mercedes tuners, the transmission loss values were more accurate than at a generic tuner's.
Also got to see the legendary C-class with a twin-turbocharged 6.2 V8 hammering up and down the site road. I think it was pushing something like 1200bhp and was a regular at various top speed events.
GeniusOfLove said:
my 155k XKR puts in numbers above book (I suspect it might be mapped).
I had a car that was faster than it should have been. It was 225ish book, but from its measured acceleration times (which were quicker than book also) I estimated it had around 300bhp. I think the remapper had deleted torque limits in lower fears because:
1) it would creep up to about 30mph and
2) it destroyed its own gearbox. Auto, not me being hamfisted.
donkmeister said:
I had a car that was faster than it should have been. It was 225ish book, but from its measured acceleration times (which were quicker than book also) I estimated it had around 300bhp.
I think the remapper had deleted torque limits in lower fears because:
1) it would creep up to about 30mph and
2) it destroyed its own gearbox. Auto, not me being hamfisted.
I’ve killed the gearbox in every remapped car I’ve used for any period I think the remapper had deleted torque limits in lower fears because:
1) it would creep up to about 30mph and
2) it destroyed its own gearbox. Auto, not me being hamfisted.
Sorry to Macron in advance but this diesel S211 is in a nice spec:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/147237229810
Bit suspicious that the MOT runs out soon and last time around it originally failed on emissions but let's be optimists.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/147237229810
Bit suspicious that the MOT runs out soon and last time around it originally failed on emissions but let's be optimists.
bolidemichael said:
I've not considered removing the limted on my E500 recently, yet my indy has assured me that he now has the tools to do so on the CL600 -- so I may have a little nibble at that.
In my case I wanted the limiter gone so I could stretch my legs... When I made enquiries with MSL they said I might as well have some more power as they'd charge the same If your CL is the TT V12 then there is a fair bit more power to get at. If you're going to do a job...
GeniusOfLove said:
donkmeister said:
I had a car that was faster than it should have been. It was 225ish book, but from its measured acceleration times (which were quicker than book also) I estimated it had around 300bhp.
I think the remapper had deleted torque limits in lower fears because:
1) it would creep up to about 30mph and
2) it destroyed its own gearbox. Auto, not me being hamfisted.
I ve killed the gearbox in every remapped car I ve used for any period I think the remapper had deleted torque limits in lower fears because:
1) it would creep up to about 30mph and
2) it destroyed its own gearbox. Auto, not me being hamfisted.
My 7G never had any issues in the 30k miles I did since the remap.
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