Best smoker barges 1-5 large [Vol 22]

[GeniusOfLove]

A manual X300 is so rare I'd not bat an eyelid at chucking £2k of welding repairs at it at least.

I scrapped my auto for £400 worth

[vanman1936]

maxwellwd said:

Crook said:

vanman1936 said:

biggbn said:

tobinen said:

Happy Friday losers.

L405 5.0; £18,000

https://www.carandclassic.com/l/C2052141

This is lovely

This is indeed tempting ..how mad would I be!?!

Ask him?

I will chime in here as I am the mentioned member. That one looks good, it was just a bit more money than mine and it doesn't have the espresso leather.

My two cents is this, if you go in eyes wide open and expect to spend some money, then expectations met. For instance, the chains are worth doing from a pre-emptive point of view, then its a case of while you're in there, you then change the waterpump, upgrade the pulley, service the supercharger etc etc.

The engines are robust but in my view you will want to update to the latest version of the chain/guides and then the engine should go on and on. This is the current rabbit hole I am down.

I really think bang for buck nothing gets close to the level of opulence and effortless performance. I also think they have aged extremely well. Also, to give some context, they handle so much better than the L322 and actually handles dramitaccally better than my XC70 which is like a boat.

TLDR: just buy it and keep us up to date!

Thanks for your response. Very insightful.

I have had a little Google but ranges are very wide, would appreciate a guide as to how much the preventative measures you refer to cost?

[GeniusOfLove]

I'd not give timing chains a second thought. Change the oil at half the recommended interval (5k to 6k) and deal with it if it starts making a noise; I've never known a timing chain fail without plenty of warning.

Water pump is an easy DIY job if you're so inclined, £70 for a pro flow pump and another £200 for all the hoses that are in that area and that's done. Probably 4-6 hours steady work and you can change the supercharger and aux belts at the same time.

Viezu quoted a grand to take the blower off my XJ Supersport, clean the inlet valves, fit a smaller pulley, and remap it. This was a while ago but getting the charger off isn't tremendously difficult and you can send it away for bearing replacement and a coupler and a smaller pulley if you are so inclined.

The engine isn't the bit that'll vex you though, I imagine.

[_Rodders_]

Agree on that, it's extended oil intervals that kill chains. I'd much rather double, or even triple the oil change frequency than start opening up an engine preemptively.

Although that doesn't help much once the chains have already been stretched with 10 years of 20k changes.

[maxwellwd]

GeniusOfLove said:

I'd not give timing chains a second thought. Change the oil at half the recommended interval (5k to 6k) and deal with it if it starts making a noise; I've never known a timing chain fail without plenty of warning.

Water pump is an easy DIY job if you're so inclined, £70 for a pro flow pump and another £200 for all the hoses that are in that area and that's done. Probably 4-6 hours steady work and you can change the supercharger and aux belts at the same time.

Viezu quoted a grand to take the blower off my XJ Supersport, clean the inlet valves, fit a smaller pulley, and remap it. This was a while ago but getting the charger off isn't tremendously difficult and you can send it away for bearing replacement and a coupler and a smaller pulley if you are so inclined.

The engine isn't the bit that'll vex you though, I imagine.

Exactly this. Its worth upgrading to the aluminium upgrade kit for the later Ranger Rovers & defenders like here https://maltings4x4store.co.uk/thermostats/genuine...

The other issue can be the Cats as they tend to go, apparantly more common on the SVR but can happen on these too. Upgrade with Direnza ones and get it remapped to extinguish any EMLs etc

[flywheel]

She's a lovely looking vessel - but I'm a bit surprised that its ad has escaped the sneering scepticism I expect and enjoy from this thread. Who calls their house a 'mansion'??

But the MOT history shows a pleasingly linear mileage increase over the years... so perhaps I am just not in the right social circles.

[GeniusOfLove]

maxwellwd said:

GeniusOfLove said:

I'd not give timing chains a second thought. Change the oil at half the recommended interval (5k to 6k) and deal with it if it starts making a noise; I've never known a timing chain fail without plenty of warning.

Water pump is an easy DIY job if you're so inclined, £70 for a pro flow pump and another £200 for all the hoses that are in that area and that's done. Probably 4-6 hours steady work and you can change the supercharger and aux belts at the same time.

Viezu quoted a grand to take the blower off my XJ Supersport, clean the inlet valves, fit a smaller pulley, and remap it. This was a while ago but getting the charger off isn't tremendously difficult and you can send it away for bearing replacement and a coupler and a smaller pulley if you are so inclined.

The engine isn't the bit that'll vex you though, I imagine.

Exactly this. Its worth upgrading to the aluminium upgrade kit for the later Ranger Rovers & defenders like here https://maltings4x4store.co.uk/thermostats/genuine...

The other issue can be the Cats as they tend to go, apparantly more common on the SVR but can happen on these too. Upgrade with Direnza ones and get it remapped to extinguish any EMLs etc

I also have my suspicions that the other horrid noises this engine makes, particularly the profoundly awful KNOCK KNOCK KNOCK from the fuel injection system on a hot start and the marbles in a can rattle of the charger coupling are often misdiagnosed as timing chain issues.

[maxwellwd]

GeniusOfLove said:

maxwellwd said:

GeniusOfLove said:

I'd not give timing chains a second thought. Change the oil at half the recommended interval (5k to 6k) and deal with it if it starts making a noise; I've never known a timing chain fail without plenty of warning.

Water pump is an easy DIY job if you're so inclined, £70 for a pro flow pump and another £200 for all the hoses that are in that area and that's done. Probably 4-6 hours steady work and you can change the supercharger and aux belts at the same time.

Viezu quoted a grand to take the blower off my XJ Supersport, clean the inlet valves, fit a smaller pulley, and remap it. This was a while ago but getting the charger off isn't tremendously difficult and you can send it away for bearing replacement and a coupler and a smaller pulley if you are so inclined.

The engine isn't the bit that'll vex you though, I imagine.

Exactly this. Its worth upgrading to the aluminium upgrade kit for the later Ranger Rovers & defenders like here https://maltings4x4store.co.uk/thermostats/genuine...

The other issue can be the Cats as they tend to go, apparantly more common on the SVR but can happen on these too. Upgrade with Direnza ones and get it remapped to extinguish any EMLs etc

I also have my suspicions that the other horrid noises this engine makes, particularly the profoundly awful KNOCK KNOCK KNOCK from the fuel injection system on a hot start and the marbles in a can rattle of the charger coupling are often misdiagnosed as timing chain issues.

That's how they perform open-wallet surgery sir. I do agree with you. I do love thie engine though, a lot! I prefer it to the 4.7 V8 I had in my old Vantage S, although that sounded epic, this Jag unit is absolutely something else. Must be so much fun in an F-Type/XKR. A shame you have now sold yours.

[GeniusOfLove]

maxwellwd said:

That's how they perform open-wallet surgery sir. I do agree with you. I do love thie engine though, a lot! I prefer it to the 4.7 V8 I had in my old Vantage S, although that sounded epic, this Jag unit is absolutely something else. Must be so much fun in an F-Type/XKR. A shame you have now sold yours.

It's an outstanding engine, supercharging might not be great for billy bullst economy figures but it is so much better for drivability and sound.

[Paulog13]

GeniusOfLove said:

Good Lord there are a lot of those on BCA. Yours isn't listed at the moment, I'll keep an eye out.

Thanks GOL, much appreciated. I think a lot are coming off their 2 year leases, it was stupidly cheap for a £70K list price, less than £500 per month via Salary Sacrifice which included all maintenance, insurance, tyres etc. I ensured it got serviced at the local Lexus main dealership due to “software updates”, first service was £280, last one including wheel alignment was £400. Also one replacement tyre at £230 due to a puncture. The lease company are also returning approximately £500 to me as it was almost 6K miles below my contracted mileage….

[Matt_T]

Paulog13 said:

GeniusOfLove said:

Good Lord there are a lot of those on BCA. Yours isn't listed at the moment, I'll keep an eye out.

Thanks GOL, much appreciated. I think a lot are coming off their 2 year leases, it was stupidly cheap for a £70K list price, less than £500 per month via Salary Sacrifice which included all maintenance, insurance, tyres etc. I ensured it got serviced at the local Lexus main dealership due to software updates , first service was £280, last one including wheel alignment was £400. Also one replacement tyre at £230 due to a puncture. The lease company are also returning approximately £500 to me as it was almost 6K miles below my contracted mileage .

So how does the lease maths work? £70,000 list - £500 pcm for 36 months (£18,000) = £52,000 owed...
and they go throuth BCA for £30,000

So who is taking the hit on the missing £12,000?

[Mammasaid]

Matt_T said:

Paulog13 said:

GeniusOfLove said:

Good Lord there are a lot of those on BCA. Yours isn't listed at the moment, I'll keep an eye out.

Thanks GOL, much appreciated. I think a lot are coming off their 2 year leases, it was stupidly cheap for a £70K list price, less than £500 per month via Salary Sacrifice which included all maintenance, insurance, tyres etc. I ensured it got serviced at the local Lexus main dealership due to software updates , first service was £280, last one including wheel alignment was £400. Also one replacement tyre at £230 due to a puncture. The lease company are also returning approximately £500 to me as it was almost 6K miles below my contracted mileage .

So how does the lease maths work? £70,000 list - £500 pcm for 36 months (£18,000) = £52,000 owed...
and they go throuth BCA for £30,000

So who is taking the hit on the missing £12,000?

None of the the lease companies are paying list for the vehicles. For example, the Volvo V90CC deals from 2019, someone managed to see the invoice from Snatander, for a £46k vehicle, the invoice was for £28k. Perhaps an extreme example, but perhaps not.

[Fast Bug]

Matt_T said:

So how does the lease maths work? £70,000 list - £500 pcm for 36 months (£18,000) = £52,000 owed...
and they go throuth BCA for £30,000

So who is taking the hit on the missing £12,000?

That's less than a 20% discount off list price, they'll get more than that

[QBee]

Fast Bug said:

Matt_T said:

So how does the lease maths work? £70,000 list - £500 pcm for 36 months (£18,000) = £52,000 owed...
and they go throuth BCA for £30,000

So who is taking the hit on the missing £12,000?

That's less than a 20% discount off list price, they'll get more than that

Matt means £22,000 hit. The answer is still leasing company discounts. There is a lot of fat built into the list price and they will happily sacrifice a fair amount of margin to sell thousands of cars and, more particularly, also get the ongoing service work and parts sales.

I went about this in a slightly differfent way, as a company accountant running a fleet of only 10 cars.
We buy rather than lease and I cannot guarantee that our drivers will do low annual mileages.
During COVID we had to pay pretty much list price because cars were in such short supply.
But at other times we have achieved some massive discounts by avoiding some or all of the first year's depreciation.
For example, when we wanted a BMW 530e hybrid in 2019, I found the car we wanted on a main delaer's demonstrator list for sale at £31,000 with 1,155 miles on the clock. List price was £49,000. 36.7% saving.
More recently we bought a one year old Mercedes GLE 400e Premium Plus (list price £95,455) for £65,995, one year old and with 2,885 miles on the clock (30.8% saving).

[Paulog13]

Matt_T said:

Paulog13 said:

GeniusOfLove said:

Good Lord there are a lot of those on BCA. Yours isn't listed at the moment, I'll keep an eye out.

Thanks GOL, much appreciated. I think a lot are coming off their 2 year leases, it was stupidly cheap for a £70K list price, less than £500 per month via Salary Sacrifice which included all maintenance, insurance, tyres etc. I ensured it got serviced at the local Lexus main dealership due to software updates , first service was £280, last one including wheel alignment was £400. Also one replacement tyre at £230 due to a puncture. The lease company are also returning approximately £500 to me as it was almost 6K miles below my contracted mileage .

So how does the lease maths work? £70,000 list - £500 pcm for 36 months (£18,000) = £52,000 owed...
and they go throuth BCA for £30,000

So who is taking the hit on the missing £12,000?

My lease was only over two years, so I paid £12K in total. The lease company spent over £1K in servicing and repairs over the two years. My lease cost included installation of the Charger, free charging for 1 year through British Gas for having the hive charger installed, and for the other around 6.5K miles in year 2, charging on my EV Tariff at 7p per KWH, I reckon it cost me an extra £170 to run it. This is assuming average full charge of circa 200 miles which was the effective range over the year, not anywhere near the Lexus RZ450E WLTP range of 252 miles with the 20 inch alloys. It dropped to as low as 160 miles in winter and a best of 241 miles in summer. You are correct, the lease companies must have been getting a massive discount from cost new for the lease to still make them money. It was a great car, let down by range, and an interior not befitting a £70K car. My old man has had various Lexus RX s over the years and my brother has a 2022 RX450H and the interior quality of them is in another league to the RZ. My replacement Smart #1 Brabus has a nicer interior and almost as spacious passenger compartment, and it has a list price £25K cheaper. Pity it turned up with scratches on just about every panel.

However, that s another story and still at a Detailer of my choice being rectified.

This will be my fourth ownership of a Smart over circa 20 years, although they have normally been solely used by my wife

Edited by Paulog13 on Thursday 21st May 11:20

Edited by Paulog13 on Thursday 21st May 11:21

[Matt_T]

QBee said:

Fast Bug said:

Matt_T said:

So how does the lease maths work? £70,000 list - £500 pcm for 36 months (£18,000) = £52,000 owed...
and they go throuth BCA for £30,000

So who is taking the hit on the missing £12,000?

That's less than a 20% discount off list price, they'll get more than that

Matt means £22,000 hit...

Yes... sorry that was a typo, I meant to say missing £22,000.

[PenultimateSpiderman]

Who fancies a tidy looking V8 convertible for under £5k? I know I do.

[Crook]

PenultimateSpiderman said:

Who fancies a tidy looking V8 convertible for under £5k? I know I do.

Now we're talking!

[maxwellwd]

I think this presents well as quite a few of these look a bit tired these days. Not sure about the interior wood though. They do get some interesting stock on this site and I know it has been mentioned before.

Also none of the oil leak V8 pain with this model https://heeltoecars.com/cars/17980899131840757

[dscam]

PenultimateSpiderman said:

Who fancies a tidy looking V8 convertible for under £5k? I know I do.

CharlesdeGaulle, is that you?!