EVs... no one wants them! (Vol. 2)
Discussion
otolith said:
lornemalvo said:
I doubt it. Lexus spent a billion dollars developing the Lexus LS in 1989. They had 60 engineers working just on noise, vibration and harshness. I remember putting a glass of water on the running engine. Not a ripple. If they still made them, I would buy one in a heartbeat.
All that effort doesn t get close to something that doesn t create that noise and vibration in the first place - but of course that only applies to the drivetrain, the Lexus also suppresses road, wind, and external noise. M4cruiser said:
I did want a Lexus LS400 when they first came out ... largely because of the silence. But I couldn't afford the £40,000 and the running costs.
I reckon a Leaf is a close match in refinement ....
This is what is great about EVs. You get the refinement, the torque, the instant go of a Lexus V8 in pretty much any car all whilst doing the equivalent of 500 mpg.I reckon a Leaf is a close match in refinement ....
Fred Smith said:
MediumBuild said:
No Fred. I m saying that I m not stupid enough to judge anyone s life based on their commute when you haven t the first f
king clue about them. The arrogance is breathtaking.
But then I m not spending £700+ a year to go on a course to teach me how to be a condescending arse either.
"I'm saying that I m not stupid enough to judge anyone s life based on their commute when I can do so based on a course I know literally nothing about"king clue about them. The arrogance is breathtaking. But then I m not spending £700+ a year to go on a course to teach me how to be a condescending arse either.
nickfrog said:
ashenfie said:
Manual gearbox and engine noise gives a wonderful sense of control, what s not to love.
But own a car that sounds like it has a broken water seam odd. Why don t they make a more pleasing sound?
A manual gearbox obviously gives you less control than no gearbox in an EV, particularly with the inherently poor throttle response of a modern ICE.But own a car that sounds like it has a broken water seam odd. Why don t they make a more pleasing sound?
On the noise front, it really depends. I really enjoy the noise of the OG M2 although I know it sounds s
t compared to a properly good sounding engine: I assume you have something amazing from a noise perspective in your garage, tell me more as you haven't filled in that section in your profile.The other aspect is that it's still entirely possible to enjoy a good sounding car while also owning an EV for those journeys that are more monotonous, but that has been said hundred of times already (it should eventually sink in).
Either way I prefer the sound of an EV than the sound of farty turbo 4, not to mention a diesel.
Edited by nickfrog on Sunday 24th May 10:10
Sound is an important safety feature for pedestrians particularly in busy cities, often forgot. Rising and falling engine warns of drivers intent.
ashenfie said:
Mmm the manual gear box allow for engine breaking or coasting as per the drivers desire. Import on a track day. Ev also cut the motor when you touch the break, no so great either. Ofcouse the Tycan has two gears, which is a nice feature.
Sound is an important safety feature for pedestrians particularly in busy cities, often forgot. Rising and falling engine warns of drivers intent.
Tell me more about your track day experience in one of your fabulously sounding cars!Sound is an important safety feature for pedestrians particularly in busy cities, often forgot. Rising and falling engine warns of drivers intent.
And about how many times you got ran over by an EV.
Clutching at straws, are we?
Edited by nickfrog on Monday 25th May 22:16
ashenfie said:
Mmm the manual gear box allow for engine breaking or coasting as per the drivers desire. Import on a track day. Ev also cut the motor when you touch the break, no so great either. Ofcouse the Tycan has two gears, which is a nice feature.
Sound is an important safety feature for pedestrians particularly in busy cities, often forgot. Rising and falling engine warns of drivers intent.
You simply cannot be this ignorant about EVs? All the time you spend on PH threads about them? Sound is an important safety feature for pedestrians particularly in busy cities, often forgot. Rising and falling engine warns of drivers intent.
ashenfie said:
Mmm the manual gear box allow for engine breaking or coasting as per the drivers desire. Import on a track day. Ev also cut the motor when you touch the break, no so great either. Ofcouse the Tycan has two gears, which is a nice feature.
Sound is an important safety feature for pedestrians particularly in busy cities, often forgot. Rising and falling engine warns of drivers intent.
EVs do not "cut the motor" when you touch the brake. Quite the opposite. They give you easily modulated engine braking which way exceeds that of an ICE, if required. Whether set to coast or full regen. Sound is an important safety feature for pedestrians particularly in busy cities, often forgot. Rising and falling engine warns of drivers intent.
MinchCS said:
ashenfie said:
Mmm the manual gear box allow for engine breaking or coasting as per the drivers desire. Import on a track day. Ev also cut the motor when you touch the break, no so great either. Ofcouse the Tycan has two gears, which is a nice feature.
Sound is an important safety feature for pedestrians particularly in busy cities, often forgot. Rising and falling engine warns of drivers intent.
EVs do not "cut the motor" when you touch the brake. Quite the opposite. They give you easily modulated engine braking which way exceeds that of an ICE, if required. Whether set to coast or full regen. Sound is an important safety feature for pedestrians particularly in busy cities, often forgot. Rising and falling engine warns of drivers intent.
Full regen when selected appears to me as capable of being very similar to selecting a lower gear when descending a long steep hill, thus preserving friction brakes. That does assume a battery that is not already fully charged. Suppose if someone were daft enough to give it a full charge just before descending Hard Knott might be a bit hard on the brakes.
Mine has three regen settings, standard, low, and off. I run it in standard. We had a couple of drives into the West Lakes and back at the weekend, some really nice driving roads, and in that setting you can maintain a pretty decent pace on those without touching the brake pedal. It's an enjoyable way to drive those roads.
M4cruiser said:
lornemalvo said:
Think yourselves lucky, you never had a Lexus LS 400. They are largely silent except for the occasional refined, muted suggestion of the best, sweetest V8 engine ever made. As I value refinement and comfort above all else, nothing I've had since comes close to that level of satisfaction with a car.
I did want a Lexus LS400 when they first came out ... largely because of the silence. But I couldn't afford the £40,000 and the running costs.I reckon a Leaf is a close match in refinement ....
I have driven various iterations of Leaf cars and EVs on the cheaper end of the spectrum. Sure, there might be no engine noise but the moment you hit poorly surfaced roads and/or drive at higher speeds, they often aren't that refined after all, even vs an old luxury ICE car (that has been designed to isolate the occupants from the road)
raspy said:
M4cruiser said:
lornemalvo said:
Think yourselves lucky, you never had a Lexus LS 400. They are largely silent except for the occasional refined, muted suggestion of the best, sweetest V8 engine ever made. As I value refinement and comfort above all else, nothing I've had since comes close to that level of satisfaction with a car.
I did want a Lexus LS400 when they first came out ... largely because of the silence. But I couldn't afford the £40,000 and the running costs.I reckon a Leaf is a close match in refinement ....
I have driven various iterations of Leaf cars and EVs on the cheaper end of the spectrum. Sure, there might be no engine noise but the moment you hit poorly surfaced roads and/or drive at higher speeds, they often aren't that refined after all, even vs an old luxury ICE car (that has been designed to isolate the occupants from the road)
Cheap nasty cars are cheap nasty cars whatever they are power by.
But decent EV's are way more refined that even quite expensive so called luxury ICE cars. I know I've had top of the range BMW's and Porsche's and my current EV is right up there for handling, ride and of course performance.
raspy said:
My first car was a LS400. Passengers couldn't even tell that I had started the engine and even when cruising at triple digit speeds in Germany, you were so isolated from the road and outside noise. It was uncannily quiet.
I have driven various iterations of Leaf cars and EVs on the cheaper end of the spectrum. Sure, there might be no engine noise but the moment you hit poorly surfaced roads and/or drive at higher speeds, they often aren't that refined after all, even vs an old luxury ICE car (that has been designed to isolate the occupants from the road)
Indeed. Very few cars really excel at isolating tyre roar from coarse tarmac or concrete at motorway speeds, and the power source makes no difference.I have driven various iterations of Leaf cars and EVs on the cheaper end of the spectrum. Sure, there might be no engine noise but the moment you hit poorly surfaced roads and/or drive at higher speeds, they often aren't that refined after all, even vs an old luxury ICE car (that has been designed to isolate the occupants from the road)
Best I've travelled in is the iX. Second best, though some way behind, was a VW Phaeton. I bet the original LS is still quieter than either of those.
Inlineonline said:
Why do people who dislike EV's always bang on about 1st gen Leafs and the like?
Cheap nasty cars are cheap nasty cars whatever they are power by.
But decent EV's are way more refined that even quite expensive so called luxury ICE cars. I know I've had top of the range BMW's and Porsche's and my current EV is right up there for handling, ride and of course performance.
For me the answer is "the only use case I can see for EVs in my life is very very cheap one, for very very short distances, and only if I am able to find the extra money to buy a large detached house with lots of driveway and garage space in the town centre"Cheap nasty cars are cheap nasty cars whatever they are power by.
But decent EV's are way more refined that even quite expensive so called luxury ICE cars. I know I've had top of the range BMW's and Porsche's and my current EV is right up there for handling, ride and of course performance.
ashenfie said:
....
Sound is an important safety feature for pedestrians particularly in busy cities, often forgot. Rising and falling engine warns of drivers intent.
I have owned several offensively loud motorcars in my time and people regularly wandered into the road in front of them without looking.Sound is an important safety feature for pedestrians particularly in busy cities, often forgot. Rising and falling engine warns of drivers intent.
(My road is a small side road off a main road, I'd say 8 out of 10 pedestrians crossing the junction don't look around and just walk across).
Fred Smith said:
Inlineonline said:
Why do people who dislike EV's always bang on about 1st gen Leafs and the like?
Cheap nasty cars are cheap nasty cars whatever they are power by.
But decent EV's are way more refined that even quite expensive so called luxury ICE cars. I know I've had top of the range BMW's and Porsche's and my current EV is right up there for handling, ride and of course performance.
For me the answer is "the only use case I can see for EVs in my life is very very cheap one, for very very short distances, and only if I am able to find the extra money to buy a large detached house with lots of driveway and garage space in the town centre"Cheap nasty cars are cheap nasty cars whatever they are power by.
But decent EV's are way more refined that even quite expensive so called luxury ICE cars. I know I've had top of the range BMW's and Porsche's and my current EV is right up there for handling, ride and of course performance.
Fred Smith said:
Inlineonline said:
Why do people who dislike EV's always bang on about 1st gen Leafs and the like?
Cheap nasty cars are cheap nasty cars whatever they are power by.
But decent EV's are way more refined that even quite expensive so called luxury ICE cars. I know I've had top of the range BMW's and Porsche's and my current EV is right up there for handling, ride and of course performance.
For me the answer is "the only use case I can see for EVs in my life is very very cheap one, for very very short distances, and only if I am able to find the extra money to buy a large detached house with lots of driveway and garage space in the town centre"Cheap nasty cars are cheap nasty cars whatever they are power by.
But decent EV's are way more refined that even quite expensive so called luxury ICE cars. I know I've had top of the range BMW's and Porsche's and my current EV is right up there for handling, ride and of course performance.
Inlineonline said:
If you live in the town centre, why would you need a car for very, very short distances? That's what legs are for surely? Or is the drive THAT long
Driving to family the other side of town, driving to b and q or halfords. Occasional supermarket trips (most are done en route on longer journeys or on foot, but sometimes drving 2 miles to a big one on the edge of town makes sense.)Gassing Station | Car Buying | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff