EVs... no one wants them! (Vol. 2)

[otolith]

TheRainMaker said:

You have kind of lost me, to be honest.

Here are both the 2024 and 2025 figures.

Looks like we need a massive boost (not impossible) in BEV registrations over the next two months to get anywhere close to the growth we saw last year.

These are SMMT numbers.





Working on an iPad, so there might be mistakes, etc.

It's not particularly your conclusions I'm disputing, I haven't really looked at them it's your methodology!

The year to date % BV reflects the average market share over the year. On a linear rising trend, it's going to essentially come out with where we were halfway through the period. If the trend was (1/10, 2/10, 3/10, 4/10, 5/10, 6/10, 7/10, 8/10, 9/10) year to date would be 45/90 or 5/10 - would you say that sequence has only increased from 1/10 to 5/10?

[JQ]

RizzoTheRat said:

JQ said:

When you collect it, ask them to disable all the speed bings and bongs and the driver assistance aids - if left on the car will brake for corners and traffic, and sound alarms when over the speed limit, which I found very irritating. Once disabled they stay off. The only thing you can't permanently disable is the lane departure warning, you either have to turn it off for every journey or just use your indicators irrespective of whether or not they're needed.

Depends on the age of the car, since last summer it's mandatory to have the bongs if you go over the limit, and you can only turn them off temporarily, the next time you start the car they'll be on again. And of course this is for all cars not just EVs

Mine's 18 months old, so presumably pre-dates the change. That must be incredibly annoying for those who break the speed limit, not that I ever do of course. Hopefully the auto breaking can still be disabled.

[RizzoTheRat]

JQ said:

RizzoTheRat said:

JQ said:

When you collect it, ask them to disable all the speed bings and bongs and the driver assistance aids - if left on the car will brake for corners and traffic, and sound alarms when over the speed limit, which I found very irritating. Once disabled they stay off. The only thing you can't permanently disable is the lane departure warning, you either have to turn it off for every journey or just use your indicators irrespective of whether or not they're needed.

Depends on the age of the car, since last summer it's mandatory to have the bongs if you go over the limit, and you can only turn them off temporarily, the next time you start the car they'll be on again. And of course this is for all cars not just EVs

Mine's 18 months old, so presumably pre-dates the change. That must be incredibly annoying for those who break the speed limit, not that I ever do of course. Hopefully the auto breaking can still be disabled.

Dunno about that car specifically, but I've never had a problem with cars slowing for corners on a variety of Volvos, BMWs, Opels, Renaults, etc I've had a hire cars recently, but my mother's Yaris has occasionally slammed the brakes on when it detects a bramble sticking out the hedge in her driveway I did have one (Renault I think) that automatically changed the cruise control speed when it saw a speed limit sign, which was very annoying but presumably something that can be changed in the settings.

My Lexus only bongs 3 times when you exceed the speed limit, so you're fine so longs as you don't drop below the limit. But having seen the new Dutch speeding fines, which start at just 4kph over the limit, I'm thinking they're maybe not as annoying as I thought! Although the cruise control allows me to set an offset above the speed limit which is nice.

[eldar]

ACCYSTAN said:

I regret buying an EV

Purchased a pre reg Vauxhall combo Life MPV earlier this year and my main 2 issues are as follows -

• The range is pathetic. Peak summer I could get 180 miles out of it in mixed driving, against a claimed figure of 208

In the recent cold snap that went down to 155 miles; I dread what it will be when it gets to 0 or below.

The car itself is great, it s exactly what I want in terms of space and practicality. Just the EV is frustrating to use as compared to the diesel and petrol version both of which I have owned, I am having to fill it up 3 X more often.

It s also a headache to live with, I would never think twice in my previous petrol or diesel version putting on the heater or using the air con but now I check if I have enough range and have a few times be unable to use functions such as air con or the heater as I know it drains the range.
Its meant to be 2025 and I can t help think these crappy range on Stellantis EVs is sending us backwards, that is how I feel

• public charging is problematic, especially away from main motorway networks. Recently had a business trip to Aberystwyth; very little charging infrastructure and the prices were insane, one charger was £1.05 a KW.

Stellantis have no skin in the game when it comes to the charger network like Tesla; you would think a large European manufacturer may consider building its own network or partnering with a current network.

• on a plus point, the EV drives far nicer than the diesel or petrol versions; it s not even close. The weight of the batteries keep it glued to the road and it s seems to suit the chassis, work colleagues who drive the diesel van version have tried it and said the same the EV version drives far nicer.

My summary after 6 month of ownership is I should have paid extra and got the petrol or diesel version.
Right car, wrong fuel choice.

For those who haven t done their research and asking would the Peugeot/Citroen/Toyota version of this vehicle be any better, the answer is no they all use the same battery tech, the same as the ICE versions they are 99% identical Stellantis products.

Edited by ACCYSTAN on Thursday 6th November 13:36

Edited by ACCYSTAN on Thursday 6th November 13:37

There's your problem, Stellantis. They make vehicles which ought to be fine, and turn them in to rubbish.

[SWoll]

eldar said:

There's your problem, Stellantis. They make vehicles which ought to be fine, and turn them in to rubbish.

Whilst I'd usually agree, in this case the vehicle really isn't the problem. Buying the wrong tool for the job to save a few quid is where it all went wrong.

[FiF]

eldar said:

ACCYSTAN said:

I regret buying an EV

Purchased a pre reg Vauxhall combo Life MPV earlier this year and my main 2 issues are as follows -

• The range is pathetic. Peak summer I could get 180 miles out of it in mixed driving, against a claimed figure of 208

In the recent cold snap that went down to 155 miles; I dread what it will be when it gets to 0 or below.

The car itself is great, it s exactly what I want in terms of space and practicality. Just the EV is frustrating to use as compared to the diesel and petrol version both of which I have owned, I am having to fill it up 3 X more often.

It s also a headache to live with, I would never think twice in my previous petrol or diesel version putting on the heater or using the air con but now I check if I have enough range and have a few times be unable to use functions such as air con or the heater as I know it drains the range.
Its meant to be 2025 and I can t help think these crappy range on Stellantis EVs is sending us backwards, that is how I feel

• public charging is problematic, especially away from main motorway networks. Recently had a business trip to Aberystwyth; very little charging infrastructure and the prices were insane, one charger was £1.05 a KW.

Stellantis have no skin in the game when it comes to the charger network like Tesla; you would think a large European manufacturer may consider building its own network or partnering with a current network.

• on a plus point, the EV drives far nicer than the diesel or petrol versions; it s not even close. The weight of the batteries keep it glued to the road and it s seems to suit the chassis, work colleagues who drive the diesel van version have tried it and said the same the EV version drives far nicer.

My summary after 6 month of ownership is I should have paid extra and got the petrol or diesel version.
Right car, wrong fuel choice.

For those who haven t done their research and asking would the Peugeot/Citroen/Toyota version of this vehicle be any better, the answer is no they all use the same battery tech, the same as the ICE versions they are 99% identical Stellantis products.

Edited by ACCYSTAN on Thursday 6th November 13:36

Edited by ACCYSTAN on Thursday 6th November 13:37

There's your problem, Stellantis. They make vehicles which ought to be fine, and turn them in to rubbish.

And yet I'm running an Astra Tourer and getting very close to the declared range 240+ vs declared 256. That's with HVAC on auto incl AC, daughter always has her heated seats on, and last few days I've used the heated steering wheel. Don't stint on heated rear window and mirrors either. Just drive normally pace of other traffic too.

The Combo has aero properties like a barn door, and a really small battery. Lemon time imo. Wrong vehicle bought as harsh as that sounds.

[otolith]

I think it’s shaking up perceptions of who makes decent cars. The manufacturers are on their own journeys and some are getting there quicker than others. Recent Stellantis ICE products unfortunately have let down their brands and it sounds as if their electric ones are still off the pace too. BMW and to a lesser extent Mercedes are upping their EV game rapidly. VW are getting there. The Koreans took an early lead, the Chinese are making a lot of people look stupid, Tesla is still ahead in many respects but is losing ground. Ford a bit ho-hum.

[cerb4.5lee]

One of my mates has just swapped his electric Corsa for an E class diesel, because the Corsa won't get him to work and back over the winter for example. He does have a long commute though, so I can see why he's done it, but even I'm not against electric for a local runabout though, or if you have a short commute for example.

[M4cruiser]

ACCYSTAN said:

• The range is pathetic. Peak summer I could get 180 miles out of it in mixed driving, against a claimed figure of 208

In the recent cold snap that went down to 155 miles; I dread what it will be when it gets to 0 or below.

Edited by ACCYSTAN on Thursday 6th November 13:36

Edited by ACCYSTAN on Thursday 6th November 13:37

That kind of figure is normal. It's the same % reduction on my Leaf.

[andrewpandrew]

cerb4.5lee said:

One of my mates has just swapped his electric Corsa for an E class diesel, because the Corsa won't get him to work and back over the winter for example. He does have a long commute though, so I can see why he's done it, but even I'm not against electric for a local runabout though, or if you have a short commute for example.

Did he not know that valuable fact before he bought said Corsa?

My EV does 300 miles in current temps. Hardly a short commute.

All this wrong tool for the job stuff just exposes morons. It’s like a sushi chef using a bread knife.

[FiF]

andrewpandrew said:

Did he not know that valuable fact before he bought said Corsa?

My EV does 300 miles in current temps. Hardly a short commute.

All this wrong tool for the job stuff just exposes morons. It s like a sushi chef using a bread knife.

Yep, there are vehicles available with greater range than my 250 ish, around 200 in real depths of winter and home charging available but it's far more than adequate for use case. Just basic sense to really dig before jumping.

[RizzoTheRat]

cerb4.5lee said:

One of my mates has just swapped his electric Corsa for an E class diesel, because the Corsa won't get him to work and back over the winter for example. He does have a long commute though, so I can see why he's done it, but even I'm not against electric for a local runabout though, or if you have a short commute for example.

I wouldn't have picked a ICE Corsa for 150ish miles per day either, presumably he had the Corsa before the commute?

[Pandox2096]

Just a thought but I wonder if there is an overlap between the group of people who have rigid views on things and the group that does not think matters through rationally and are therefore more likely to make an inappropriate choice of vehicle for their needs

[greenarrow]

otolith said:

I think it s shaking up perceptions of who makes decent cars. The manufacturers are on their own journeys and some are getting there quicker than others. Recent Stellantis ICE products unfortunately have let down their brands and it sounds as if their electric ones are still off the pace too. BMW and to a lesser extent Mercedes are upping their EV game rapidly. VW are getting there. The Koreans took an early lead, the Chinese are making a lot of people look stupid, Tesla is still ahead in many respects but is losing ground. Ford a bit ho-hum.

Yes I agree with this and having read some long term reports in magazines, there've been quite a few reports on the Corsa e which suggest the range is very poor compared to advertised. The Astra presumably has a different battery. Kia I think are excellent, as I've reported back before my friend covered 130K miles in his Gen 1 Niro before unfortunately it developed an issue that the dealers couldnt fix and he retired it as his daily, it would get close to 300 miles in summer and still above 200 miles in winter. He would take it from Dorset up to Chester once a week and other 200 + mile each way excursions. Tesla are obviously excellent. I think people are being harsh on the guy with the Vauxhall Combo MPV. He obviously had a budget and a category of car he wanted so to say "should have spent more rather than try and save money" is just a snobby/nobbish reply really. Its a real world experience illustrating why for that particular category of car, the BEV he chose wasn't fit for purpose, compared with the ICE equivalent. I do think BEV owners on here need to try and be less defensive when someone reports back a negative experience. They all count, good or bad!

[SpeckledJim]

I bought a Lamborghini Sian but I can't get the christmas tree in it.

I've swapped it for a Caterpillar 797F and now I'm totally satisfied.

Lamborghini Sians are rubbish. Maybe I'll get another in a decade if those divvy Italians wake up, realise what the market actually wants, and make one that fit a christmas tree.

[eldar]

SWoll said:

eldar said:

There's your problem, Stellantis. They make vehicles which ought to be fine, and turn them in to rubbish.

Whilst I'd usually agree, in this case the vehicle really isn't the problem. Buying the wrong tool for the job to save a few quid is where it all went wrong.

Not sure I'd agree. My Citroen EC4 looked to be a reasonable car, but the reality is it's flawed. Nothing major, but a litany of things that don't work. The Citroen app doesn't work at all. Won't talk to the charger, settings randomly change, radio/ice system erratic, random door locks/unlocks.

Dealers/Citroen completely unable to diagnose/fix, or even make more than a token 'they all do that'. Looking at the owners forums tne latter appears true.

Best avoided.

Best avoided.

[Ankh87]

eldar said:

SWoll said:

eldar said:

There's your problem, Stellantis. They make vehicles which ought to be fine, and turn them in to rubbish.

Whilst I'd usually agree, in this case the vehicle really isn't the problem. Buying the wrong tool for the job to save a few quid is where it all went wrong.

Not sure I'd agree. My Citroen EC4 looked to be a reasonable car, but the reality is it's flawed. Nothing major, but a litany of things that don't work. The Citroen app doesn't work at all. Won't talk to the charger, settings randomly change, radio/ice system erratic, random door locks/unlocks.

Dealers/Citroen completely unable to diagnose/fix, or even make more than a token 'they all do that'. Looking at the owners forums tne latter appears true.

Best avoided.

Best avoided.

Absolute shocker that a French car is having issues.

I mean the car doing the random door locks/unlocks is a massive safety issue. I'd be getting my money back on grounds that the car is unsafe and that if your car is unlocked, the insurance company will not cover you for theft or any damage done to the interior as it's your fault.

[DT1975]

andrewpandrew said:

Did he not know that valuable fact before he bought said Corsa?

My EV does 300 miles in current temps. Hardly a short commute.

All this wrong tool for the job stuff just exposes morons. It s like a sushi chef using a bread knife.

Morons ? That's more than a bit harsh. I'd argue most of the general population have little idea of the nuances of an EV when it comes to range, they just look at the figures and listen to the BS from the sales person. The reason I say this is that I know of a Mrs Miggins type who recently bought a Corsa EV based on lies and almost immediately regretted it.

[MightyBadger]

SpeckledJim said:

I bought a Lamborghini Sian but I can't get the christmas tree in it.

I've swapped it for a Caterpillar 797F and now I'm totally satisfied.

Lamborghini Sians are rubbish. Maybe I'll get another in a decade if those divvy Italians wake up, realise what the market actually wants, and make one that fit a christmas tree.

The Sian wouldn't see which way the average family SUV EV went!

[SpeckledJim]

MightyBadger said:

SpeckledJim said:

I bought a Lamborghini Sian but I can't get the christmas tree in it.

I've swapped it for a Caterpillar 797F and now I'm totally satisfied.

Lamborghini Sians are rubbish. Maybe I'll get another in a decade if those divvy Italians wake up, realise what the market actually wants, and make one that fit a christmas tree.

The Sian wouldn't see which way the average family SUV EV went!

Branches and needles everywhere. I couldn't see which way anyone went, never mind EVs.