EVs... no one wants them! (Vol. 2)

[Tiglon]

andrewpandrew said:

Galibier said:

andrewpandrew said:

Indeed. The money I save running two EVs for our daily cars pays for the maintenance and fuelling costs of my Porsche, as well as being spent on things like eating out a few times a week and school ski trips for the kids.

Christ. How much petrol were you using to be able to pay for those instead?

I didn t say they covered those things fully, but fuel savings contribute towards them.

You did say it "pays for them". Not partly pays for them, or contributes towards them. It was a pretty unambiguous statement to be fair.

[andrewpandrew]

cerb4.5lee said:

You do read this a lot as you say, but surely you don't save epic amounts of money overall(counting everything in-in terms of running costs, depreciation etc) just because you run EVs though?

A lot is made about depreciation. I lease our Polestar so the cost is fixed. I mainly charge at work for free. I bought our Honda e second hand for cash. It’s costs about £2 to charge it fully. Both cars currently have free servicing and breakdown cover. I know you said you weren’t very good at maths, but it’s pretty easy to see that the savings are real and significant.

[SpeckledJim]

cerb4.5lee said:

MightyBadger said:

SpeckledJim said:

Well, this is something you can do about them

No thanks.

I've never been able to understand who electric cars are actually aimed at...the rich or the poor?

Their list prices are generally aimed at the rich I think, but most of their owners always bang on about how efficient they are though, so that would only be something that the poor would worry about for example. I find it quite fascinating to be honest.

We’re about 20% through a 25 year process. The cars we’re seeing so far are generally aimed at those most able to make an early transition. The wealthy, and the enthusiastic.

It shifts to more mass-market models as more of the mass market consumers are ready to buy one.

[cerb4.5lee]

Tiglon said:

I used to look at the price of fuel and try to find the cheapest garage, but then I worked out how much (little) money it would save me and I don't bother any more. I stop at the garage that has the best snacks instead.

I've just had a look online and in my area the difference is max 6p between cheapest and priciest. So it would be about a tenner per month saving for me, and I do 20k miles per year. I could go out of my way by 10 miles and save another 2p per litre, which would be a saving of £1 for about 20-30 minutes of my time, and I value that a bit more than £2-£3 per hour.

I remember having a 5p off a litre coupon years back, and I was really excited about filling the tank full and using it. However it virtually saved me absolutely nothing though, and both myself and missus were laughing about it at the time.

[andrewpandrew]

Tiglon said:

andrewpandrew said:

Galibier said:

andrewpandrew said:

Indeed. The money I save running two EVs for our daily cars pays for the maintenance and fuelling costs of my Porsche, as well as being spent on things like eating out a few times a week and school ski trips for the kids.

Christ. How much petrol were you using to be able to pay for those instead?

I didn t say they covered those things fully, but fuel savings contribute towards them.

You did say it "pays for them". Not partly pays for them, or contributes towards them. It was a pretty unambiguous statement to be fair.

I’ve edited my post to keep the pedants happy

[Tiglon]

andrewpandrew said:

I ve edited my post to keep the pedants happy

The difference between "paying for X" and "contributing towards X" isn't really pedantry though, is it? Quite different meanings, especially when X is no doubt quite a large number.

Statement A means savings = X (e.g. £5,000)
Statement B means savings = less than X but more than 0 (e.g. an unspecified number between £0.01 and £4,999.99)

When your statement is intended to demonstrate that you are saving a lot of money, it makes quite a big difference whether that number is £5,000 or potentially 1p.

[uktrailmonster]

cerb4.5lee said:

I've never been able to understand who electric cars are actually aimed at...the rich or the poor?

Their list prices are generally aimed at the rich I think, but most of their owners always bang on about how efficient they are though, so that would only be something that the poor would worry about for example. I find it quite fascinating to be honest.

The reason efficiency matters is related more to range than cost. For example if you have a 100 kWh battery and your efficiency is 2 miles/kWh then your range is only 200 miles. At 4 miles/kWh your range is 400 miles. If you are charging mostly at home, the cost is pretty much trivial, typically 2 p/mile. Efficiency hardly affects the cost at that level. But efficiency does have a large affect on range and required battery size. Also has a knock-on effect on charging speeds.

[andrewpandrew]

Tiglon said:

andrewpandrew said:

I ve edited my post to keep the pedants happy

The difference between "paying for X" and "contributing towards X" isn't really pedantry though, is it? Quite different meanings, especially when X is no doubt quite a large number.

Statement A means savings = X (e.g. £5,000)
Statement B means savings = less than X but more than 0 (e.g. an unspecified number between £0.01 and £4,999.99)

When your statement is intended to demonstrate that you are saving a lot of money, it makes quite a big difference whether that number is £5,000 or potentially 1p.

I guess I made the mistake of thinking someone would take it that seriously. Seems I was wrong, very wrong

[cerb4.5lee]

andrewpandrew said:

Tiglon said:

andrewpandrew said:

I ve edited my post to keep the pedants happy

The difference between "paying for X" and "contributing towards X" isn't really pedantry though, is it? Quite different meanings, especially when X is no doubt quite a large number.

Statement A means savings = X (e.g. £5,000)
Statement B means savings = less than X but more than 0 (e.g. an unspecified number between £0.01 and £4,999.99)

When your statement is intended to demonstrate that you are saving a lot of money, it makes quite a big difference whether that number is £5,000 or potentially 1p.

I guess I made the mistake of thinking someone would take it that seriously. Seems I was wrong, very wrong

I'm still none the wiser if electric actually saves you any money then?

You'd be better off being honest about it for me, rather than exaggerating it a bit for me though. It is a bit like me saying that the X5 does 60mpg, when it reality it's only doing 45mpg for example.

[sixor8]

If I charger only at night with EON, I average 1.81p per mile (that's after allowing for 20% charging losses). That's equivalent to doing 351 mpg (at 140p per litre like it is near me). Accurate enough?

[andrewpandrew]

cerb4.5lee said:

andrewpandrew said:

Tiglon said:

andrewpandrew said:

I ve edited my post to keep the pedants happy

The difference between "paying for X" and "contributing towards X" isn't really pedantry though, is it? Quite different meanings, especially when X is no doubt quite a large number.

Statement A means savings = X (e.g. £5,000)
Statement B means savings = less than X but more than 0 (e.g. an unspecified number between £0.01 and £4,999.99)

When your statement is intended to demonstrate that you are saving a lot of money, it makes quite a big difference whether that number is £5,000 or potentially 1p.

I guess I made the mistake of thinking someone would take it that seriously. Seems I was wrong, very wrong

I'm still none the wiser if electric actually saves you any money then?

You'd be better off being honest about it for me, rather than exaggerating it a bit for me though. It is a bit like me saying that the X5 does 60mpg, when it reality it's only doing 45mpg for example.

So my last two daily ICE cars, shared between my wife and I, averaged approximately 20p/mi in fuel costs alone. We do around 18k miles a year, so fuel costs were approaching £4k a year. Even if I remove the free charging from work, and go on the basis that both our EVs are charged at home, that yearly cost is closer to £500. Granted that money isn't paying for my daughters trip to Andorra, but you get the idea.

[cerb4.5lee]

andrewpandrew said:

So my last two daily ICE cars, shared between my wife and I, averaged approximately 20p/mi in fuel costs alone. We do around 18k miles a year, so fuel costs were approaching £4k a year. Even if I remove the free charging from work, and go on the basis that both our EVs are charged at home, that yearly cost is closer to £500. Granted that money isn't paying for my daughters trip to Andorra, but you get the idea.

Some meaningful savings then thanks. Funnily enough I went skiing in Andorra years back as an adult, and I miss going skiing now to be honest.

[nickfrog]

andrewpandrew said:

I guess I made the mistake of thinking someone would take it that seriously. Seems I was wrong, very wrong

This place does crack me up sometimes.

[M4cruiser]

sixor8 said:

All response are welcome but I was actually asking if M4cruiser had a 3 pin lead; he said he'd have been stuck with only 4%if his home charger was broken.

Edited by sixor8 on Sunday 14th December 10:26

Hello sixor8, sorry I missed your question - yes somewhere I have a granny lead but have never used it with this car.
It would take a bit of faff to reach a 3-pin socket, but I suppose could get enough in an hour to reach a public charger.
Not much round here in on-street chargers, there are some about 4 miles away, but on streets where the residents have no driveways, so very little chance of parking near enough to one.
Full-on rapids are about 8 miles from me.

[M4cruiser]

MightyBadger said:

SpeckledJim said:

Pick the fights you can win. They don't go ROAARRRR!!! like a 1.5 TDi does. That's always a winner for you. Stick with that one.

Eh? I don't even know anyone who owns a 1.5tdi. Strange but expected reply from you though.

The 1.2 Di is even worse as a 3-cylinder. PopPopRoar. The electric one goes hum

[TheRainMaker]

There was quite a good video from one of the Pro EV types on YouTube (he sells them).

It works out to around £1,200 in annual savings with an EV over petrol, including the new 3p-per-mile charge.

This is an average based on 10000 miles a year.

[MightyBadger]

ChocolateFrog said:

Well there is, you can buy less. I buy around 1400 litres a year less than I did before I changed one of the cars for an EV.

Good for you.

I don't need to buy less thanks.

[M4cruiser]

andrewpandrew said:

RizzoTheRat said:

The trouble with Kei cars is they tend to be very boxy these days. If they're going to bring Kei cars to Europe something like the Dihatsu Copen looks far nicer.



I saw a Fiat Topolino the other day, it is not a pretty car

These look infinitely prettier on the streets of Rome.

Really?

[MightyBadger]

Tiglon said:

The difference between "paying for X" and "contributing towards X" isn't really pedantry though, is it? Quite different meanings, especially when X is no doubt quite a large number.

Exactly.

[Phunk]

M4cruiser said:

andrewpandrew said:

RizzoTheRat said:

The trouble with Kei cars is they tend to be very boxy these days. If they're going to bring Kei cars to Europe something like the Dihatsu Copen looks far nicer.



I saw a Fiat Topolino the other day, it is not a pretty car

These look infinitely prettier on the streets of Rome.

Really?

That’s a Citroen Ami not a Fiat