EVs... no one wants them! (Vol. 2)
Discussion
Terminator X said:
uktrailmonster said:
Lee, you are starting to show signs of making up fictional characters just like Fred has. 
Come on, nobody joins PH unless they have an interest in cars. The name PistonHeads is just a bit dated now since lots of new cars don t have engines. Did you know that PistonHeads was originally called PetrolHeads ? Maybe it needs another re-branding to reflect the obvious change. Or it could exclude EVs like presumably you and Fred would prefer?
Obvious change? 75m new car sales in 2024 worldwide and BEV and PHEV were 17m. BEV only would be far less of course.Come on, nobody joins PH unless they have an interest in cars. The name PistonHeads is just a bit dated now since lots of new cars don t have engines. Did you know that PistonHeads was originally called PetrolHeads ? Maybe it needs another re-branding to reflect the obvious change. Or it could exclude EVs like presumably you and Fred would prefer?
TX.
Terminator X said:
uktrailmonster said:
Lee, you are starting to show signs of making up fictional characters just like Fred has.
Come on, nobody joins PH unless they have an interest in cars. The name PistonHeads is just a bit dated now since lots of new cars don t have engines. Did you know that PistonHeads was originally called PetrolHeads ? Maybe it needs another re-branding to reflect the obvious change. Or it could exclude EVs like presumably you and Fred would prefer?
Obvious change? 75m new car sales in 2024 worldwide and BEV and PHEV were 17m. BEV only would be far less of course.Come on, nobody joins PH unless they have an interest in cars. The name PistonHeads is just a bit dated now since lots of new cars don t have engines. Did you know that PistonHeads was originally called PetrolHeads ? Maybe it needs another re-branding to reflect the obvious change. Or it could exclude EVs like presumably you and Fred would prefer?
TX.
Terminator X said:
Obvious change? 75m new car sales in 2024 worldwide and BEV and PHEV were 17m. BEV only would be far less of course.
TX.
UK new car sales are currently about 20% BEV. Norway (the international leader in EV sales) was at that level in about 2017, so we're about 8 years behind. Now, they are at 97%. I suspect (but do not know) that Norway has a smaller proportion of its population without off-road parking, but even given the UK government's misguided mandates on ICE vehicle sales you can surely see that you will see far more EVs on the road than you do now.TX.
By the way, PHEV sales only account for about 10% of all EVs.
tamore said:
Terminator X said:
uktrailmonster said:
Lee, you are starting to show signs of making up fictional characters just like Fred has.
Come on, nobody joins PH unless they have an interest in cars. The name PistonHeads is just a bit dated now since lots of new cars don t have engines. Did you know that PistonHeads was originally called PetrolHeads ? Maybe it needs another re-branding to reflect the obvious change. Or it could exclude EVs like presumably you and Fred would prefer?
Obvious change? 75m new car sales in 2024 worldwide and BEV and PHEV were 17m. BEV only would be far less of course.Come on, nobody joins PH unless they have an interest in cars. The name PistonHeads is just a bit dated now since lots of new cars don t have engines. Did you know that PistonHeads was originally called PetrolHeads ? Maybe it needs another re-branding to reflect the obvious change. Or it could exclude EVs like presumably you and Fred would prefer?
TX.
TX.
uktrailmonster said:
Terminator X said:
uktrailmonster said:
Lee, you are starting to show signs of making up fictional characters just like Fred has.
Come on, nobody joins PH unless they have an interest in cars. The name PistonHeads is just a bit dated now since lots of new cars don t have engines. Did you know that PistonHeads was originally called PetrolHeads ? Maybe it needs another re-branding to reflect the obvious change. Or it could exclude EVs like presumably you and Fred would prefer?
Obvious change? 75m new car sales in 2024 worldwide and BEV and PHEV were 17m. BEV only would be far less of course.Come on, nobody joins PH unless they have an interest in cars. The name PistonHeads is just a bit dated now since lots of new cars don t have engines. Did you know that PistonHeads was originally called PetrolHeads ? Maybe it needs another re-branding to reflect the obvious change. Or it could exclude EVs like presumably you and Fred would prefer?
TX.
TX.
RizzoTheRat said:
What do you even define as Pro-EV? Some people are anti-EV, everyone else seems to be pro-car. Are you defining anyone who doesn't believe EV's are the work of the devil and are going to be responsible for the apocalypse to be pro-EV?
I'm an atheist if that helps.
You have this wrong. People are perfectly entitled to not like EV but the EV fanboys jump all over them trying to trash what they say. Try letting them have their opinions like you have yours.I'm an atheist if that helps.
TX.
Terminator X said:
You have this wrong. People are perfectly entitled to not like EV but the EV fanboys jump all over them trying to trash what they say. Try letting them have their opinions like you have yours.
Of course they are entitled to their opinions, but if and when those opinions are baseless then they should be called out. For example :Terminator X said:
uktrailmonster said:
Terminator X said:
Obvious change? 75m new car sales in 2024 worldwide and BEV and PHEV were 17m. BEV only would be far less of course.
You can pretend EVs don t exist if you like. But I see hundreds of them on the road every day here in the UK, where most PHs live. I think you probably see loads of them too unless you live in an African cave. TX.
Joining very late to the party but we test drove a Tesla Model 3 today. 
First time driving an EV, and have only been in one once before.
Range. We were looking at the Long Range RWD variant. 466 miles range WLTP. 19 inch wheels knocks that back to 429.
Performance - 0 to 60 in 4.9s. Feels very quick as no gear changes, instant torque.
Driving position very good. Short nose and big windows.
Standard spec - pretty impressive. Better spec'd than both my C43 and my wifes Z4.
All feels a little weird for about the first three miles then all makes complete sense. Its a completely different way of thinking about how the inside of a car should be. My wife is a big ipad user so took to it like a fish to water.
No keys required (though carrying the card key recommended). You open the car via bluetooth on your phone so you walk up and tap the car.
Most things are app driven - including booking your car in for warranty work, etc.
Wife does a 160 mile commute twice a week to one of her sites, so the car will easily do that, even at motorway speeds in the depths of winter.
Tesla charger - getting that as part of the deal. Charges at about 40 miles range per hour. Car can be set to start charging itself on off peak electric and pre-heat itself in the morning ready for you getting in.
We've off road parking so fitting a wall charger wouldnt be an issue.
The car would be doing that commuting run twice a week, then all our other car duties. Z4 would become weekend / second car. C43 would go at some point.
Overall, we found it very compelling for what we want it for.
First time driving an EV, and have only been in one once before.
Range. We were looking at the Long Range RWD variant. 466 miles range WLTP. 19 inch wheels knocks that back to 429.
Performance - 0 to 60 in 4.9s. Feels very quick as no gear changes, instant torque.
Driving position very good. Short nose and big windows.
Standard spec - pretty impressive. Better spec'd than both my C43 and my wifes Z4.
All feels a little weird for about the first three miles then all makes complete sense. Its a completely different way of thinking about how the inside of a car should be. My wife is a big ipad user so took to it like a fish to water.
No keys required (though carrying the card key recommended). You open the car via bluetooth on your phone so you walk up and tap the car.
Most things are app driven - including booking your car in for warranty work, etc.
Wife does a 160 mile commute twice a week to one of her sites, so the car will easily do that, even at motorway speeds in the depths of winter.
Tesla charger - getting that as part of the deal. Charges at about 40 miles range per hour. Car can be set to start charging itself on off peak electric and pre-heat itself in the morning ready for you getting in.
We've off road parking so fitting a wall charger wouldnt be an issue.
The car would be doing that commuting run twice a week, then all our other car duties. Z4 would become weekend / second car. C43 would go at some point.
Overall, we found it very compelling for what we want it for.
Edited by Deep Thought on Saturday 17th January 18:31
An alternative link for those that refuse to watch that absolute f
king cretin -
https://evpowered.co.uk/news/volvo-ex30-faces-reca...
king cretin - https://evpowered.co.uk/news/volvo-ex30-faces-reca...
andrewpandrew said:
An alternative link for those that refuse to watch that absolute fking cretin -
https://evpowered.co.uk/news/volvo-ex30-faces-reca...
Thanks.king cretin - https://evpowered.co.uk/news/volvo-ex30-faces-reca...
Mikebentley said:
Public service announcement Mighty Badger is an idiot. All opinions are valid.
Harsh. If I had posted the Volvo link would the message be any different?Why is his opinion not valid? If you watch the video he gives a useful example of a journey with the milage difference.
No doubt Volvo will sort it asap
uktrailmonster said:
otolith said:
Of the cars I have owned or still own, I liked some of the drivetrains.
2002 Civic Type-R - fantastic high revving engine which felt unburstable, sounded great, my favourite manual gearbox ever in the type of hot hatch I like (the type that wishes it was an S2000, not the type that wishes it was an RS4)
2002 Mazda MX-5 - crap, coarse, gutless engine which needed revs but sounded in pain when you used them, but excellent manual gearbox which made the engine forgivable.
2006 Mazda RX-8 - absolutely adored the wankel engine for its smoothness and willingness to rev, and the noise with a slightly louder sports exhaust. Great manual gearbox. Comedy mpg, but didn't care. Whole concept was built around that compact drivetrain, so the handling and packaging were all the result of that design decision.
2002 Saab 9-5 Aero - bland sounding but smooth balancer shaft four hidden behind a lot of sound insulation, laggy turbo, perfectly acceptable gearbox, dull front drive scrabble, but stonking mid range for a car of the time and surprisingly economical driven with restraint. Just a really rational, functional package.
2005 Nissan 350Z - clunky, clumsy gearbox, but a charismatic V6 that really lugged through the mid range. Sounded strained right at the top, but sounded fantastic everywhere else.
2004 Elise 111R - I like high revving engines. This one revs higher than the Civic did, but doesn't sound as nice doing it, and has (had) more of an old school VTEC on/off delivery. OK in a light car, where "off" is still plenty, think it would have been a pain in a heavier Celica or Corolla. I had it reflashed to lower the change over point and match the two torque curves less clumsily, which reduced the drama but increased the driveability. Later had it supercharged, which made all of that go away. Out of the box, it sounded like a demonically cursed sewing machine. A 2bular exhaust improved matters, as did a TRD intake, but you're never going to make a saxophone out of a kazoo. The overlay of supercharger whine adds interest now. The gearbox was never great, but firmer engine mounts and some fettling by a specialist improved it a lot to the point where it's more than acceptable. View out of the rear mirror is now blurred at idle from the vibrations, but you win some, you lose some.
2006 Z4M convertible. Love this engine. Like one and a half K20As. Love the power delivery, the noise, the revs. Gearbox is poor. OK at best most of the time, 1st-2nd is a knack, especially when cold. Doesn't bother me so much now I'm used to it, but definitely nothing to write home about, and the engine deserves better.
2005/2010 Mercedes E320CDI/E350CDI - V6 diesel, 7 speed automatic. Performance and refinement very good for a diesel (remapped the first one, didn't bother with the second). Was very happy with the automatic at the time, apart from it being a bit dopey moving between reverse and drive. Like the Saab, just a very effective way of covering distance in ease and comfort and pretty fuel efficient. But...
2016 BMW 335D GT - straight six twin turbo diesel, 8 speed ZF8 automatic - made the Mercedes package I'd previously been happy with look a bit crap. The mechanical refinement, responsiveness, torque everywhere, the sheer go of the thing, the witchcraft-powered automatic with extremely fast, smooth shifts and almost never caught out in the wrong gear - and four wheel drive, so it could always put it down to the road. Not as well sound insulated as the Mercs, it's a class smaller, and the interior noise is partly electronic fakery, but who cares.
So, still got the Z4M and the Lotus, but also have an ID.3 and a Polestar 2, and what do you know, there are things I like about those electric cars, and their drivetrains. Because, fundamentally, I'm a car enthusiast, and they are cars, with just yet another drivetrain configuration for me to enjoy. If someone was insisting that they were a food enthusiast because the only thing they eat is pie and chips and they won't try any other cuisine, you'd probably consider them a pie and chips enthusiast at best.
Great post! The Pie & Chips enthusiasts would be much more welcome if they didn t feel a need to keep slagging off other cuisine they hate. 2002 Civic Type-R - fantastic high revving engine which felt unburstable, sounded great, my favourite manual gearbox ever in the type of hot hatch I like (the type that wishes it was an S2000, not the type that wishes it was an RS4)
2002 Mazda MX-5 - crap, coarse, gutless engine which needed revs but sounded in pain when you used them, but excellent manual gearbox which made the engine forgivable.
2006 Mazda RX-8 - absolutely adored the wankel engine for its smoothness and willingness to rev, and the noise with a slightly louder sports exhaust. Great manual gearbox. Comedy mpg, but didn't care. Whole concept was built around that compact drivetrain, so the handling and packaging were all the result of that design decision.
2002 Saab 9-5 Aero - bland sounding but smooth balancer shaft four hidden behind a lot of sound insulation, laggy turbo, perfectly acceptable gearbox, dull front drive scrabble, but stonking mid range for a car of the time and surprisingly economical driven with restraint. Just a really rational, functional package.
2005 Nissan 350Z - clunky, clumsy gearbox, but a charismatic V6 that really lugged through the mid range. Sounded strained right at the top, but sounded fantastic everywhere else.
2004 Elise 111R - I like high revving engines. This one revs higher than the Civic did, but doesn't sound as nice doing it, and has (had) more of an old school VTEC on/off delivery. OK in a light car, where "off" is still plenty, think it would have been a pain in a heavier Celica or Corolla. I had it reflashed to lower the change over point and match the two torque curves less clumsily, which reduced the drama but increased the driveability. Later had it supercharged, which made all of that go away. Out of the box, it sounded like a demonically cursed sewing machine. A 2bular exhaust improved matters, as did a TRD intake, but you're never going to make a saxophone out of a kazoo. The overlay of supercharger whine adds interest now. The gearbox was never great, but firmer engine mounts and some fettling by a specialist improved it a lot to the point where it's more than acceptable. View out of the rear mirror is now blurred at idle from the vibrations, but you win some, you lose some.
2006 Z4M convertible. Love this engine. Like one and a half K20As. Love the power delivery, the noise, the revs. Gearbox is poor. OK at best most of the time, 1st-2nd is a knack, especially when cold. Doesn't bother me so much now I'm used to it, but definitely nothing to write home about, and the engine deserves better.
2005/2010 Mercedes E320CDI/E350CDI - V6 diesel, 7 speed automatic. Performance and refinement very good for a diesel (remapped the first one, didn't bother with the second). Was very happy with the automatic at the time, apart from it being a bit dopey moving between reverse and drive. Like the Saab, just a very effective way of covering distance in ease and comfort and pretty fuel efficient. But...
2016 BMW 335D GT - straight six twin turbo diesel, 8 speed ZF8 automatic - made the Mercedes package I'd previously been happy with look a bit crap. The mechanical refinement, responsiveness, torque everywhere, the sheer go of the thing, the witchcraft-powered automatic with extremely fast, smooth shifts and almost never caught out in the wrong gear - and four wheel drive, so it could always put it down to the road. Not as well sound insulated as the Mercs, it's a class smaller, and the interior noise is partly electronic fakery, but who cares.
So, still got the Z4M and the Lotus, but also have an ID.3 and a Polestar 2, and what do you know, there are things I like about those electric cars, and their drivetrains. Because, fundamentally, I'm a car enthusiast, and they are cars, with just yet another drivetrain configuration for me to enjoy. If someone was insisting that they were a food enthusiast because the only thing they eat is pie and chips and they won't try any other cuisine, you'd probably consider them a pie and chips enthusiast at best.
I've always put the engine as my top priority, but I haven't always got it right don't get me wrong(the 520d for example), but generally the engine makes the car for me though for sure.
Deep Thought said:
Joining very late to the party but we test drove a Tesla Model 3 today.
First time driving an EV, and have only been in one once before.
Range. We were looking at the Long Range RWD variant. 466 miles range WLTP. 19 inch wheels knocks that back to 429.
Performance - 0 to 60 in 4.9s. Feels very quick as no gear changes, instant torque.
Driving position very good. Short nose and big windows.
Standard spec - pretty impressive. Better spec'd than both my C43 and my wifes Z4.
All feels a little weird for about the first three miles then all makes complete sense. Its a completely different way of thinking about how the inside of a car should be. My wife is a big ipad user so took to it like a fish to water.
No keys required (though carrying the card key recommended). You open the car via bluetooth on your phone so you walk up and tap the car.
Most things are app driven - including booking your car in for warranty work, etc.
Wife does a 160 mile commute twice a week to one of her sites, so the car will easily do that, even at motorway speeds in the depths of winter.
Tesla charger - getting that as part of the deal. Charges at about 40 miles range per hour. Car can be set to start charging itself on off peak electric and pre-heat itself in the morning ready for you getting in.
We've off road parking so fitting a wall charger wouldnt be an issue.
The car would be doing that commuting run twice a week, then all our other car duties. Z4 would become weekend / second car. C43 would go at some point.
Overall, we found it very compelling for what we want it for.
Cool but a lot of what you have in the model 3 is not something that is EV specific, and just normal for new cars in 2025. Whether it’s a big touchscreen (and few buttons), phone/watch as a digital key, app for the car, those features are on diesel and petrol cars as well. First time driving an EV, and have only been in one once before.
Range. We were looking at the Long Range RWD variant. 466 miles range WLTP. 19 inch wheels knocks that back to 429.
Performance - 0 to 60 in 4.9s. Feels very quick as no gear changes, instant torque.
Driving position very good. Short nose and big windows.
Standard spec - pretty impressive. Better spec'd than both my C43 and my wifes Z4.
All feels a little weird for about the first three miles then all makes complete sense. Its a completely different way of thinking about how the inside of a car should be. My wife is a big ipad user so took to it like a fish to water.
No keys required (though carrying the card key recommended). You open the car via bluetooth on your phone so you walk up and tap the car.
Most things are app driven - including booking your car in for warranty work, etc.
Wife does a 160 mile commute twice a week to one of her sites, so the car will easily do that, even at motorway speeds in the depths of winter.
Tesla charger - getting that as part of the deal. Charges at about 40 miles range per hour. Car can be set to start charging itself on off peak electric and pre-heat itself in the morning ready for you getting in.
We've off road parking so fitting a wall charger wouldnt be an issue.
The car would be doing that commuting run twice a week, then all our other car duties. Z4 would become weekend / second car. C43 would go at some point.
Overall, we found it very compelling for what we want it for.
Edited by Deep Thought on Saturday 17th January 18:31
MightyBadger said:
Mikebentley said:
Public service announcement Mighty Badger is an idiot. All opinions are valid.
Harsh. If I had posted the Volvo link would the message be any different?Why is his opinion not valid? If you watch the video he gives a useful example of a journey with the milage difference.
No doubt Volvo will sort it asap
It’s not his opinion I’m particularly bothered about, but his agenda is just odd, very odd. I actually find it quite disconcerting reading the comments section that there are so many people with really strong feelings about EVs and the people who drive them.
raspy said:
Cool but a lot of what you have in the model 3 is not something that is EV specific, and just normal for new cars in 2025. Whether it s a big touchscreen (and few buttons), phone/watch as a digital key, app for the car, those features are on diesel and petrol cars as well.
No doubt.I guess my point was that whilst we see posts about "too much technology" in EVs and even that the Tesla is quite "basic" inside, its all there in a fresh, modern user interface.
They're probably at the more extreme end of tech but even within a few miles it all felt quite natural.
I havent seen any ICE car with just a central screen. Pretty much everything is driven through that. Most have some sort of dashboard in front of you and its usually in some sort of traditional configuration.
Penny Whistle said:
UK new car sales are currently about 20% BEV. Norway (the international leader in EV sales) was at that level in about 2017, so we're about 8 years behind. Now, they are at 97%. I suspect (but do not know) that Norway has a smaller proportion of its population without off-road parking, but even given the UK government's misguided mandates on ICE vehicle sales you can surely see that you will see far more EVs on the road than you do now.
By the way, PHEV sales only account for about 10% of all EVs.
Why do people quote Norway?By the way, PHEV sales only account for about 10% of all EVs.
Of course people buy EV's there, because ICE cars are basically being taxed out of existence. Who is going to pay twice the price for an equivalent ICE car over an EV and then also have to pay ongoing huge taxes on fuel, road taxes, tolls, parking etc compared to EV's?
If the premise is that Norwegians overwhelming prefer driving EV's to ICE that is not proven. It does prove that Norwegians prefer to buy and run much cheaper vehicles and that is no surprise.
Gassing Station | Car Buying | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff