EVs... no one wants them! (Vol. 2)

[Jte3397]

greenarrow said:

Followed one of these little Dacia's earlier and they stand out as being so narrow compared with 99% of moderns, which is a good thing! I personally think one would be a hoot for local driving, but then I am one of those who loves driving my daughter's Smart four two. As for the price, £10K is amazingly cheap for 2026. For context, 30 years ago this month my wife and I bought our first ever brand new car, a Fiat Cinquecento Sporting in broom yellow. On the road, that little car was £7,000. So to pay less than 50% more than that car, with 30 years worth of inflation to allow for, in my book, is good going! PS, that car was probably a death trap too, not sure if NCAP was even a thing in 1996, certainly more so than the Dacia, but we drove it all over the country and didn't die!

Having seen a few they remind me of a modern take on the Suzuki Whizzkid or Honda S600, they're tiny for a modern car. As I said, I can see the appeal for those who want a brand new car and the benefits that brings but one wouldn't be for me personally.
I owned a Smart Car for a bit. It was gifted to me. Economical but I couldn't get on with it so it went.

[SWoll]

p1stonhead said:

_Hoppers said:

p1stonhead said:

Since getting an i3 I ve absolutely loved how narrow it is especially because I m always going down country lanes.

I think the i3 looks narrow but it's deceptive (unless you're used to driving a Range Rover?). In reality it's wider than a F30, when including the mirrors and the body of the i3 is only 3.6cm narrower.

I literally came directly into the i3 from a full size Range Rover

That is surprising though it feels really thin. I have an E93 too and it feels way smaller than that too but apparently it's not. Perspective I guess!

It definitely 'fits' on my local lanes a lot more than the huge SUV's I encounter though.

Edited by p1stonhead on Wednesday 11th March 09:28

It feels a narrow car around town and b roads as it's the mirrors that add a lot to the overall width. Great for parking almost anywhere though as so maneuverable, as long as you don't have to get anyone out of the back via the suicide doors of course.

[loudlashadjuster]

Jte3397 said:

greenarrow said:

Followed one of these little Dacia's earlier and they stand out as being so narrow compared with 99% of moderns, which is a good thing! I personally think one would be a hoot for local driving, but then I am one of those who loves driving my daughter's Smart four two. As for the price, £10K is amazingly cheap for 2026. For context, 30 years ago this month my wife and I bought our first ever brand new car, a Fiat Cinquecento Sporting in broom yellow. On the road, that little car was £7,000. So to pay less than 50% more than that car, with 30 years worth of inflation to allow for, in my book, is good going! PS, that car was probably a death trap too, not sure if NCAP was even a thing in 1996, certainly more so than the Dacia, but we drove it all over the country and didn't die!

Having seen a few they remind me of a modern take on the Suzuki Whizzkid or Honda S600, they're tiny for a modern car. As I said, I can see the appeal for those who want a brand new car and the benefits that brings but one wouldn't be for me personally.
I owned a Smart Car for a bit. It was gifted to me. Economical but I couldn't get on with it so it went.

I too had a Cinquecento Sporting. The Dacia is like a tank in comparison.

The Cinq really was the definition of a tin can, and even for the late 90s lacked basic active safety like ABS.

I count myself lucky to have survived ownership

[p1stonhead]

SWoll said:

p1stonhead said:

_Hoppers said:

p1stonhead said:

Since getting an i3 I ve absolutely loved how narrow it is especially because I m always going down country lanes.

I think the i3 looks narrow but it's deceptive (unless you're used to driving a Range Rover?). In reality it's wider than a F30, when including the mirrors and the body of the i3 is only 3.6cm narrower.

I literally came directly into the i3 from a full size Range Rover

That is surprising though it feels really thin. I have an E93 too and it feels way smaller than that too but apparently it's not. Perspective I guess!

It definitely 'fits' on my local lanes a lot more than the huge SUV's I encounter though.

Edited by p1stonhead on Wednesday 11th March 09:28

It feels a narrow car around town and b roads as it's the mirrors that add a lot to the overall width. Great for parking almost anywhere though as so maneuverable, as long as you don't have to get anyone out of the back via the suicide doors of course.

The back doors are the only negative day to day (have two small kids) but I can deal with it.

Car parks are the worst when you open both doors next to another car and you’re trapped in mini jail between the doors and the neighbouring car

[_Rodders_]

It seems like quite a few people were used to having some equity at the end of their PCP deals.

Seeing quite a few posts on MG4 groups about people feeling stung that they're having to hand back cars as the balloon is more than the value.

Can't say I've got much sympathy. I've never done a PCP but would always work on the assumption that there would be nothing left at the end.

[Jte3397]

loudlashadjuster said:

Jte3397 said:

greenarrow said:

Followed one of these little Dacia's earlier and they stand out as being so narrow compared with 99% of moderns, which is a good thing! I personally think one would be a hoot for local driving, but then I am one of those who loves driving my daughter's Smart four two. As for the price, £10K is amazingly cheap for 2026. For context, 30 years ago this month my wife and I bought our first ever brand new car, a Fiat Cinquecento Sporting in broom yellow. On the road, that little car was £7,000. So to pay less than 50% more than that car, with 30 years worth of inflation to allow for, in my book, is good going! PS, that car was probably a death trap too, not sure if NCAP was even a thing in 1996, certainly more so than the Dacia, but we drove it all over the country and didn't die!

Having seen a few they remind me of a modern take on the Suzuki Whizzkid or Honda S600, they're tiny for a modern car. As I said, I can see the appeal for those who want a brand new car and the benefits that brings but one wouldn't be for me personally.
I owned a Smart Car for a bit. It was gifted to me. Economical but I couldn't get on with it so it went.

I too had a Cinquecento Sporting. The Dacia is like a tank in comparison.

The Cinq really was the definition of a tin can, and even for the late 90s lacked basic active safety like ABS.

I count myself lucky to have survived ownership

Much like the 106 Rallye I had, no airbags, no ABS, metal that bent if you looked at it. That Spring is tank like in comparison and you'd probably come off better than a lot of older but seemingly more substantial cars

[_Rodders_]

Width is the most annoying metric of modern cars.

If you drive a wide modern car don't encroach on my side of the road, take it from the curb side.

It's a daily thing on some of the narrow roads where they're taking 18 inches on their side and if you took the same you'd essentially crash.

It's tempting to stick some reinforcement into the mirror supports and just let them crack on.

[otolith]

At 1070kg, that Dacia is very light for a modern car, let alone a modern electric car. Not sure there are many cars that weight I would choose to be in if I had to have an accident.

[uktrailmonster]

_Rodders_ said:

It seems like quite a few people were used to having some equity at the end of their PCP deals.

Seeing quite a few posts on MG4 groups about people feeling stung that they're having to hand back cars as the balloon is more than the value.

Can't say I've got much sympathy. I've never done a PCP but would always work on the assumption that there would be nothing left at the end.

They should think themselves lucky that they can just hand it back and walk away. The higher the final balloon the less they had to pay monthly. Equity at the end of a PCP is just an illusion really. It just means that you paid more monthly to gain that equity.

[p1stonhead]

otolith said:

At 1070kg, that Dacia is very light for a modern car, let alone a modern electric car. Not sure there are many cars that weight I would choose to be in if I had to have an accident.

It’s basically a Gordon Murray T50

[matt173407]

So i am not against EV's etc but at the moment they just don't really do it for me as an example just looking at 2nd hand so average (please don't quote me)
so 2018 some form of Tesla 100k+ mileage £14k or 2018 Focus ST 2.0 50k miles £10k. I would also have to have home charger installed etc. Yes fuel maybe more expensive etc for the ST (although if public charging I beleive that is not cheap either) but I feel would hold its value more and also much more fun to drive (this is just a simple example) I would then be worried about battery perfomance / loss etc and the fact I would need to plan journeys.

This is also my concern about buying a new one at say over £30k is the depreciation on an EV after 3 years unless leasing it, I get a lot of I save x amount not having to buy fuel, if you have home charger yes but so far from what i have seen is on a new EV you will lose far more in depreciation than
you save on fuel - Again correct me if I am wrong.

As per many here it probably comes down to preference.
Also I guess younger drivers now I guess want more of some kind of mobile social media entertainment rather then a drivers car. Long gone are the days of practicing handbrake turns in carparks.

I would also be interested in terms of the amount of speeding fines for EV drivers compared to ICE as yes they are quick off line and easy to exceed the limits without realising it due to lack of noise / feel. Again not saying better or worse than ICE just curious

these are just my humble thoughts and not based on any form of scientific evidence

[otolith]

uktrailmonster said:

They should think themselves lucky that they can just hand it back and walk away. The higher the final balloon the less they had to pay monthly. Equity at the end of a PCP is just an illusion really. It just means that you paid more monthly to gain that equity.

It's a mechanism to facilitate rolling people over into the next deal, really.

[andrewpandrew]

_Rodders_ said:

Width is the most annoying metric of modern cars.

If you drive a wide modern car don't encroach on my side of the road, take it from the curb side.

It's a daily thing on some of the narrow roads where they're taking 18 inches on their side and if you took the same you'd essentially crash.

It's tempting to stick some reinforcement into the mirror supports and just let them crack on.

I think perception of width is the problem, or more accurately, no-one seems to know how wide their car is.

[uktrailmonster]

matt173407 said:

So i am not against EV's etc but at the moment they just don't really do it for me as an example just looking at 2nd hand so average (please don't quote me)
so 2018 some form of Tesla 100k+ mileage £14k or 2018 Focus ST 2.0 50k miles £10k. I would also have to have home charger installed etc. Yes fuel maybe more expensive etc for the ST (although if public charging I beleive that is not cheap either) but I feel would hold its value more and also much more fun to drive (this is just a simple example) I would then be worried about battery perfomance / loss etc and the fact I would need to plan journeys.

This is also my concern about buying a new one at say over £30k is the depreciation on an EV after 3 years unless leasing it, I get a lot of I save x amount not having to buy fuel, if you have home charger yes but so far from what i have seen is on a new EV you will lose far more in depreciation than
you save on fuel - Again correct me if I am wrong.

As per many here it probably comes down to preference.
Also I guess younger drivers now I guess want more of some kind of mobile social media entertainment rather then a drivers car. Long gone are the days of practicing handbrake turns in carparks.

I would also be interested in terms of the amount of speeding fines for EV drivers compared to ICE as yes they are quick off line and easy to exceed the limits without realising it due to lack of noise / feel. Again not saying better or worse than ICE just curious

these are just my humble thoughts and not based on any form of scientific evidence

Regarding relative costs, the key factors are home charging and mileage. If you are able to home charge and drive high mileage mostly within home range then you save a significant amount on fuel and servicing. Multiple thousands potentially. In some cases enough to pay for the whole car over a number of years. But certainly enough to compensate for the difference in depreciation between a similar age ICE. Buying used EV vs used ICE might even turn depreciation into an advantage for EV.

If you are unable to home charge then it’s a different story and then you would have to really want an EV to make it worth the potential hassle and cost.

[Jte3397]

andrewpandrew said:

_Rodders_ said:

Width is the most annoying metric of modern cars.

If you drive a wide modern car don't encroach on my side of the road, take it from the curb side.

It's a daily thing on some of the narrow roads where they're taking 18 inches on their side and if you took the same you'd essentially crash.

It's tempting to stick some reinforcement into the mirror supports and just let them crack on.

I think perception of width is the problem, or more accurately, no-one seems to know how wide their car is.

Around here the problem is potholes in that first 18 inches from the verge. It's exacerbated by wider cars driving out around them and a fair chunk of their drivers having no idea of how wide their car is.

[uktrailmonster]

otolith said:

uktrailmonster said:

They should think themselves lucky that they can just hand it back and walk away. The higher the final balloon the less they had to pay monthly. Equity at the end of a PCP is just an illusion really. It just means that you paid more monthly to gain that equity.

It's a mechanism to facilitate rolling people over into the next deal, really.

This ^ and also means the dealer doesn’t have to sell it on at a loss after you trade it in. Cars handed back which are worth less than the outstanding balloon are effectively discounted from the original sale price by the difference in value vs balloon. Or put another way, the dealer has eaten a chunk of the actual depreciation.

[_Hoppers]

p1stonhead said:

SWoll said:

p1stonhead said:

_Hoppers said:

p1stonhead said:

Since getting an i3 I ve absolutely loved how narrow it is especially because I m always going down country lanes.

I think the i3 looks narrow but it's deceptive (unless you're used to driving a Range Rover?). In reality it's wider than a F30, when including the mirrors and the body of the i3 is only 3.6cm narrower.

I literally came directly into the i3 from a full size Range Rover

That is surprising though it feels really thin. I have an E93 too and it feels way smaller than that too but apparently it's not. Perspective I guess!

It definitely 'fits' on my local lanes a lot more than the huge SUV's I encounter though.

Edited by p1stonhead on Wednesday 11th March 09:28

It feels a narrow car around town and b roads as it's the mirrors that add a lot to the overall width. Great for parking almost anywhere though as so maneuverable, as long as you don't have to get anyone out of the back via the suicide doors of course.

The back doors are the only negative day to day (have two small kids) but I can deal with it.

Car parks are the worst when you open both doors next to another car and you re trapped in mini jail between the doors and the neighbouring car

I don't have a problem with the doors, you're doing it wrong! When you get out leave the front door open (obviously), stand at the hinge side of the rear door and open it across you, let the rear passenger out, shut rear, they shut front, walk off. Only works if your passengers can walk though

[matt173407]

uktrailmonster said:

Regarding relative costs, the key factors are home charging and mileage. If you are able to home charge and drive high mileage mostly within home range then you save a significant amount on fuel and servicing. Multiple thousands potentially. In some cases enough to pay for the whole car over a number of years. But certainly enough to compensate for the difference in depreciation between a similar age ICE. Buying used EV vs used ICE might even turn depreciation into an advantage for EV.

If you are unable to home charge then it s a different story and then you would have to really want an EV to make it worth the potential hassle and cost.

With servicing though my friend has Volvo Ex30 3yrs old he paid £30k , service had to be volvo to try keep the value but that cost £1200 so I could be wrong but i don't think servicing especially if you have to use dealers is going to save anything, tyres seem very expensive as well. (Apologies he may just be getting ripped off and this is not the general case)
I am not convinced that the fuel / servicing savings compensate the depreciation , in my simple mind they way the tech is changing and the speed it is a yr old EV is already outdated (Again my own unproved / unscientific view)

Ideally I would like an EV that gives me the looks , some noise and the drive and feel of a hot hatch (even though i am prob too old) that i think would get me passed rage anxiety

[Jte3397]

matt173407 said:

With servicing though my friend has Volvo Ex30 3yrs old he paid £30k , service had to be volvo to try keep the value but that cost £1200 so I could be wrong but i don't think servicing especially if you have to use dealers is going to save anything, tyres seem very expensive as well. (Apologies he may just be getting ripped off and this is not the general case)
I am not convinced that the fuel / servicing savings compensate the depreciation , in my simple mind they way the tech is changing and the speed it is a yr old EV is already outdated (Again my own unproved / unscientific view)

Ideally I would like an EV that gives me the looks , some noise and the drive and feel of a hot hatch (even though i am prob too old) that i think would get me passed rage anxiety

You're not alone. There's a lot of rage anxiety on here

[loudlashadjuster]

Jte3397 said:

matt173407 said:

With servicing though my friend has Volvo Ex30 3yrs old he paid £30k , service had to be volvo to try keep the value but that cost £1200 so I could be wrong but i don't think servicing especially if you have to use dealers is going to save anything, tyres seem very expensive as well. (Apologies he may just be getting ripped off and this is not the general case)
I am not convinced that the fuel / servicing savings compensate the depreciation , in my simple mind they way the tech is changing and the speed it is a yr old EV is already outdated (Again my own unproved / unscientific view)

Ideally I would like an EV that gives me the looks , some noise and the drive and feel of a hot hatch (even though i am prob too old) that i think would get me passed rage anxiety

You're not alone. There's a lot of rage anxiety on here

And almost all of it by proxy, expressed by people who don't even own EVs!