EVs... no one wants them! (Vol. 2)
Discussion
lornemalvo said:
Can't believe there's a big spike in EV sales because fuel prices have gone up. Trump will back out as soon as he can and things will return to normal at some point. I think i's a pretty pathetic knee jerk reaction
It seems that the public at large don't share this view and are indeed spiking their purchasing of second hand EV sales at least:https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/consumer/used-e...
plfrench said:
lornemalvo said:
Can't believe there's a big spike in EV sales because fuel prices have gone up. Trump will back out as soon as he can and things will return to normal at some point. I think i's a pretty pathetic knee jerk reaction
It seems that the public at large don't share this view and are indeed spiking their purchasing of second hand EV sales at least:https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/consumer/used-e...
Speaking to some friends and colleagues involved with oil futures and various downstream activities and I'm left with the distinct impression this is far from a blip or spike, but a just a taster of the way things are going.
Primary fossil fuel energy supply is going to be scarcer for the foreseeable future, possibly perpetually, and this requires a commensurate drop in demand. No amount of "temporary" (lol) fuel duty cuts or fiddling with other mechanisms to make the inevitable price hikes more palatable can really solve this equation.
Most people on PH come from rich countries which can buy their way out of trouble to some degree by outbidding poorer nations for more limited supplies (yes, that even includes the UK), but this comes at a long term cost in terms of decreased growth and/or increased inflation.
What really needs to happen is a concerted shift away from FF consumption where this is feasible, leaving the remaining supplies for things where renewable or carbon-free alternatives do not yet exist, such as for industrial processes and aviation.
Can anyone tell me if there were any policies being pushed in the last few years that encouraged consumer behaviour to switch from something which was 100% fossil fuel-powered to an alternative which required zero oil and which was also far more efficient use in terms of energy use?
Policies which, if wholeheartedly supported by a populace that understood the risks of continuing as we were, would deliver genuine longer term benefits from weaning ourselves off oil, away from the abusive economy it tethers us to, and the opportunities to grow new industries all the while living in a more pleasant environment.
We'd be crazy not to have jumped at that chance, no?
Primary fossil fuel energy supply is going to be scarcer for the foreseeable future, possibly perpetually, and this requires a commensurate drop in demand. No amount of "temporary" (lol) fuel duty cuts or fiddling with other mechanisms to make the inevitable price hikes more palatable can really solve this equation.
Most people on PH come from rich countries which can buy their way out of trouble to some degree by outbidding poorer nations for more limited supplies (yes, that even includes the UK), but this comes at a long term cost in terms of decreased growth and/or increased inflation.
What really needs to happen is a concerted shift away from FF consumption where this is feasible, leaving the remaining supplies for things where renewable or carbon-free alternatives do not yet exist, such as for industrial processes and aviation.
Can anyone tell me if there were any policies being pushed in the last few years that encouraged consumer behaviour to switch from something which was 100% fossil fuel-powered to an alternative which required zero oil and which was also far more efficient use in terms of energy use?
Policies which, if wholeheartedly supported by a populace that understood the risks of continuing as we were, would deliver genuine longer term benefits from weaning ourselves off oil, away from the abusive economy it tethers us to, and the opportunities to grow new industries all the while living in a more pleasant environment.
We'd be crazy not to have jumped at that chance, no?
A lot of people, myself included to some extent, have been open to getting an EV 'next time around'.
Lots of us realise it's where we're going in the long term, but that doesn't mean there's a rush to become early adopters.
Over the past few years, the used EVs available have been getting better and cheaper. It's been anyone's guess where prices will level out or what better options will come along soon.
A fuel price shock is just the thing to make more people think 'now is the time'.
There are other things happening too, like the choice of used IC and hybrid cars not inspiring everyone.
I've got a few extended family members with PHEV company cars.
I don't know why so few people take an interest in used PHEVs, although there are a few horror stories about battery life?
My nephew's repmobile might be a good buy for someone, the battery must have had an easy life as it's never been plugged in?
Lots of us realise it's where we're going in the long term, but that doesn't mean there's a rush to become early adopters.
Over the past few years, the used EVs available have been getting better and cheaper. It's been anyone's guess where prices will level out or what better options will come along soon.
A fuel price shock is just the thing to make more people think 'now is the time'.
There are other things happening too, like the choice of used IC and hybrid cars not inspiring everyone.
I've got a few extended family members with PHEV company cars.
I don't know why so few people take an interest in used PHEVs, although there are a few horror stories about battery life?
My nephew's repmobile might be a good buy for someone, the battery must have had an easy life as it's never been plugged in?
OutInTheShed said:
A lot of people, myself included to some extent, have been open to getting an EV 'next time around'.
Lots of us realise it's where we're going in the long term, but that doesn't mean there's a rush to become early adopters.
Over the past few years, the used EVs available have been getting better and cheaper. It's been anyone's guess where prices will level out or what better options will come along soon.
A fuel price shock is just the thing to make more people think 'now is the time'.
There are other things happening too, like the choice of used IC and hybrid cars not inspiring everyone.
I've got a few extended family members with PHEV company cars.
I don't know why so few people take an interest in used PHEVs, although there are a few horror stories about battery life?
My nephew's repmobile might be a good buy for someone, the battery must have had an easy life as it's never been plugged in?
A fuel scare will definitely push a few buyers off the fence. I think we are moving well away from the early adoption phase too. The used EV market is still relatively immature though. Lots of us realise it's where we're going in the long term, but that doesn't mean there's a rush to become early adopters.
Over the past few years, the used EVs available have been getting better and cheaper. It's been anyone's guess where prices will level out or what better options will come along soon.
A fuel price shock is just the thing to make more people think 'now is the time'.
There are other things happening too, like the choice of used IC and hybrid cars not inspiring everyone.
I've got a few extended family members with PHEV company cars.
I don't know why so few people take an interest in used PHEVs, although there are a few horror stories about battery life?
My nephew's repmobile might be a good buy for someone, the battery must have had an easy life as it's never been plugged in?
Other half is now considering switching out of her Kuga diesel (averaging 34mpg as its the 4WD one) because if you're filling the tank twice a month at £95 a pop, you might as well leverage something like Octopus' lease offerings and get a much newer car, with considerably less maintenance (getting to the point where it needs a cambelt and water pump) and energise it for a couple of quid on the alternate days to when I'm charging mine.
uktrailmonster said:
In my social circles (nearly exclusively motorsport engineers), Teslas are very well regarded. Just bought another last week and it s really quite awesome for daily driving.
Yet when I was looking to buy EV, my servicing garage was very negative about parts supply and some really iffy engineering in some Teslas and two garages selling cars basically suggest that some of the build quality is shonky despite good engineering underneath...uktrailmonster said:
A fuel scare will definitely push a few buyers off the fence. I think we are moving well away from the early adoption phase too. The used EV market is still relatively immature though.
It's been 'early adoption phase' until recently, because you could save more waiting for EV prices to drop than you'd save on diesel.There's no magic date when something becomes mainstream though.
I did my first long trip today since my energy costs reduced by 50%, a 220 mile trip to Wales and back
Total fuel cost £2.20
Just the real world costs of driving a 330bhp massive SUV EV
-> Average efficiency : 3.5 miles per kWh
-> Energy cost : 3.5p kWh
-> Cost per mile : 1p
-> Temp driving there : 4 to 6c
-> Temp driving back : 12 to 13c
Total fuel cost £2.20
Just the real world costs of driving a 330bhp massive SUV EV
-> Average efficiency : 3.5 miles per kWh
-> Energy cost : 3.5p kWh
-> Cost per mile : 1p
-> Temp driving there : 4 to 6c
-> Temp driving back : 12 to 13c
SDK said:
I did my first long trip today since my energy costs reduced by 50%, a 220 mile round trip to Wales and back
Total fuel cost £2.20
Just the real world costs of driving a 330bhp massive SUV EV
-> Average efficiency : 3.5 miles per kWh
-> Energy cost : 3.5p kWh
-> Cost per mile : 1p
-> Temp driving there : 4 to 6c
-> Temp driving back : 12 to 13c
Obviously the running costs are a given, but do you enjoy the drive more than equivalent petrol / Diesel cars too? I think there is so much chat about running costs that other EV benefits are at risk of being overlooked!Total fuel cost £2.20
Just the real world costs of driving a 330bhp massive SUV EV
-> Average efficiency : 3.5 miles per kWh
-> Energy cost : 3.5p kWh
-> Cost per mile : 1p
-> Temp driving there : 4 to 6c
-> Temp driving back : 12 to 13c
plfrench said:
SDK said:
I did my first long trip today since my energy costs reduced by 50%, a 220 mile round trip to Wales and back
Total fuel cost £2.20
Just the real world costs of driving a 330bhp massive SUV EV
-> Average efficiency : 3.5 miles per kWh
-> Energy cost : 3.5p kWh
-> Cost per mile : 1p
-> Temp driving there : 4 to 6c
-> Temp driving back : 12 to 13c
do you enjoy the drive more than equivalent petrol / Diesel cars too?Total fuel cost £2.20
Just the real world costs of driving a 330bhp massive SUV EV
-> Average efficiency : 3.5 miles per kWh
-> Energy cost : 3.5p kWh
-> Cost per mile : 1p
-> Temp driving there : 4 to 6c
-> Temp driving back : 12 to 13c
It wouldn't be any more exciting with a fossil fuel powered ICE engine
SDK said:
This trip is mostly Motorway and Dual Carriageway : M5 -> M50 -> A40. Set the radar cruise to 70mph and read a book
It wouldn't be any more exciting with a fossil fuel powered ICE engine
Sure, but I really prefer the way EVs drive generally and wouldn’t go back regardless of the cost benefits, just wondering if that’s your stance too? It wouldn't be any more exciting with a fossil fuel powered ICE engine
Don’t get me wrong, I still like making some V8 noise with the roof down on a nice country lane when the sun’s out today, but the precision of the ZEV drivetrain is quite compelling I find.
SDK said:
I did my first long trip today since my energy costs reduced by 50%, a 220 mile trip to Wales and back
Total fuel cost £2.20
Just the real world costs of driving a 330bhp massive SUV EV
-> Average efficiency : 3.5 miles per kWh
-> Energy cost : 3.5p kWh
-> Cost per mile : 1p
-> Temp driving there : 4 to 6c
-> Temp driving back : 12 to 13c
That’s pretty decent efficiency in this temp. What SUV is it?Total fuel cost £2.20
Just the real world costs of driving a 330bhp massive SUV EV
-> Average efficiency : 3.5 miles per kWh
-> Energy cost : 3.5p kWh
-> Cost per mile : 1p
-> Temp driving there : 4 to 6c
-> Temp driving back : 12 to 13c
plfrench said:
Sure, but I really prefer the way EVs drive generally and wouldn t go back regardless of the cost benefits, just wondering if that s your stance too?
Don t get me wrong, I still like making some V8 noise with the roof down on a nice country lane when the sun s out today, but the precision of the ZEV drivetrain is quite compelling I find.
Completely agree. For a daily car I'd have no issue paying the same cost per mile as an equivalent ICE as the driving experience is so much better.Don t get me wrong, I still like making some V8 noise with the roof down on a nice country lane when the sun s out today, but the precision of the ZEV drivetrain is quite compelling I find.
p1stonhead said:
SDK said:
I did my first long trip today since my energy costs reduced by 50%, a 220 mile trip to Wales and back
Total fuel cost £2.20
Just the real world costs of driving a 330bhp massive SUV EV
-> Average efficiency : 3.5 miles per kWh
-> Energy cost : 3.5p kWh
-> Cost per mile : 1p
-> Temp driving there : 4 to 6c
-> Temp driving back : 12 to 13c
That s pretty decent efficiency in this temp. What SUV is it?Total fuel cost £2.20
Just the real world costs of driving a 330bhp massive SUV EV
-> Average efficiency : 3.5 miles per kWh
-> Energy cost : 3.5p kWh
-> Cost per mile : 1p
-> Temp driving there : 4 to 6c
-> Temp driving back : 12 to 13c
SDK said:
p1stonhead said:
SDK said:
I did my first long trip today since my energy costs reduced by 50%, a 220 mile trip to Wales and back
Total fuel cost £2.20
Just the real world costs of driving a 330bhp massive SUV EV
-> Average efficiency : 3.5 miles per kWh
-> Energy cost : 3.5p kWh
-> Cost per mile : 1p
-> Temp driving there : 4 to 6c
-> Temp driving back : 12 to 13c
That s pretty decent efficiency in this temp. What SUV is it?Total fuel cost £2.20
Just the real world costs of driving a 330bhp massive SUV EV
-> Average efficiency : 3.5 miles per kWh
-> Energy cost : 3.5p kWh
-> Cost per mile : 1p
-> Temp driving there : 4 to 6c
-> Temp driving back : 12 to 13c
POIDH said:
uktrailmonster said:
In my social circles (nearly exclusively motorsport engineers), Teslas are very well regarded. Just bought another last week and it s really quite awesome for daily driving.
Yet when I was looking to buy EV, my servicing garage was very negative about parts supply and some really iffy engineering in some Teslas and two garages selling cars basically suggest that some of the build quality is shonky despite good engineering underneath...uktrailmonster said:
POIDH said:
uktrailmonster said:
In my social circles (nearly exclusively motorsport engineers), Teslas are very well regarded. Just bought another last week and it s really quite awesome for daily driving.
Yet when I was looking to buy EV, my servicing garage was very negative about parts supply and some really iffy engineering in some Teslas and two garages selling cars basically suggest that some of the build quality is shonky despite good engineering underneath...
Mikebentley said:
SDK said:
p1stonhead said:
SDK said:
I did my first long trip today since my energy costs reduced by 50%, a 220 mile trip to Wales and back
Total fuel cost £2.20
Just the real world costs of driving a 330bhp massive SUV EV
-> Average efficiency : 3.5 miles per kWh
-> Energy cost : 3.5p kWh
-> Cost per mile : 1p
-> Temp driving there : 4 to 6c
-> Temp driving back : 12 to 13c
That s pretty decent efficiency in this temp. What SUV is it?Total fuel cost £2.20
Just the real world costs of driving a 330bhp massive SUV EV
-> Average efficiency : 3.5 miles per kWh
-> Energy cost : 3.5p kWh
-> Cost per mile : 1p
-> Temp driving there : 4 to 6c
-> Temp driving back : 12 to 13c
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