EVs... no one wants them! (Vol. 2)
Discussion
Martylaa said:
MediumBuild said:
How can a SOH be more than 100%?
Not sure but this is what they have advertised on their car advert.
Regards V12sports and classics - I just bought an EV from them and very happy. They are the 'stack em high, sell em cheap, and make sure you sell a bunch of add-ons for commission' model, but when I just was clear that I was there to walk away with the car and nothing more, they were very good. I would buy from them again.
Martylaa said:
Turns out the battery SoH in that battery certificate may not be that accurate, given that it's based upon the Flash test, not the Premium test. So it's been executed by BCA and they have some blurb on their website about the Aviloo
"The State of Health (SoH) represents the condition of the vehicle's high voltage battery at the time of testing with the AVILOO FLASH Test. The FLASH Test SoH is calculated using a statistical model that takes into account thousands of similar vehicles and multiple predictors such as mileage, age, various SoH estimation signals from the Battery Management System (BMS), energy counters, cell voltage spread and many other signals, and can therefore reliably estimate the current condition of the vehicle under test. It is expressed as a percentage from which the current storable energy and range can be calculated as follows: Actual available energy = SoH/100 * energy in new condition. Current range = SoH/100 * new range.
RATING
The AVILOO Benchmark compares the State of Health (SoH) with that of similar vehicle types under similar conditions, providing a meaningful reference to help assess battery condition relative to comparable vehicles and support informed decisions on maintenance, resale value and warranty claims. AVILOO has by far the most comprehensive database of tested electric vehicles in the industry and therefore provides the most accurate benchmark. To do this, a non-linear model is used to determine the median degradation of a vehicle type and the percentile of the tested vehicle is derived from this model."
https://www.bca.co.uk/buy/ev-battery-grading/avilo...
So how would BCA do a Aviloo flash test? Surely it requires charging the car to 100% and then driving it down to say a low state of charge, to actually work out how much capacity is left in the battery vs new?
Actually it doesn't. That's done with the Aviloo Premium test, but not with the flash test. All they do is connect something to the OBD-2 port.
https://aviloo.com/en/manuals
So how useful is a battery certificate based upon an Aviloo flash test for a used EV buyer? I'm not convinced it's THAT useful as it might first appear.
Here is someone's response on reddit
"I think the people really winning here are Aviloo, charging €480 per year per diagnostic box and €35 for every diagnostic test the box performs.
These tests do have their place but the Aviloo test could be eliminated if more manufacturers provided visibility of the built in battery health monitoring. Nissan had this right on the dashboard of old leafs and on a Tesla you can work it out using the battery display and some maths (or run the proper diagnostic test in service mode).
The Aviloo flash test shown is just a read off from the car onboard computer converted into a score out of 100 with some ambiguity around how the score is weighted. So Aviloo have decided how much DC fast charging is too much and how many charge cycles are too many when devising what the score is.
The Aviloo premium test is based on a long drive and should be accurate as it counts exactly how much energy came out of a battery driven from full to empty.
The Aviloo flash test may be inaccurate if the car is very rarely driven and charged to the extremes of its battery state of charge, because the car onboard BMS will be badly calibrated. If that car has almost always been between 40-80% state of charge the Aviloo capacity estimate could be off.
The BMS needs to see 100% charge and close to 10% charge every so often so that it can calibrate what is full and empty."
https://www.reddit.com/r/TeslaUK/comments/1jmry0b/...
As always in the world of used cars, caveat emptor!
Penny Whistle said:
raspy said:
The Aviloo premium test is based on a long drive and should be accurate as it counts exactly how much energy came out of a battery driven from full to empty.
Do they really drive the car until it stops with an empty battery ?“ You have several days to reach the required charge level. Important: do not charge your vehicle during this time!
Recuperation is not a problem.
6. Drive carefully and considerately. Once the target charge level is reached, the test ends automatically - the WebAPP informs you about this. “
plfrench said:
Not with that sort of charging speed I wouldn t think. 200miles in 10mins is likely to be 800v
CLA?
It is indeed the CLA Shooting Brake. Annoyingly I have to pay an option for 400v charging capability which I think is poor but I also think its needed with the UK charging network.CLA?
Edited by plfrench on Saturday 11th April 07:24
otolith said:
Franco5 said:
Has anyone else s Octopus Intelligent Go dropped to 3.49p per kWh from the start of April? I make that 1p a mile. Seems like madness.
I thought everyone s had. Franco5 said:
Has anyone else s Octopus Intelligent Go dropped to 3.49p per kWh from the start of April? I make that 1p a mile. Seems like madness.
It's a clever move from the electricity companies. With the current issues with petrol/diesel it's a perfect opportunity to entice more people into EV's.They'll make more from the higher cost for peak usage and standing charges, and also from selling more power during quiet periods. It's a win/win for them.
SWoll said:
Franco5 said:
Has anyone else s Octopus Intelligent Go dropped to 3.49p per kWh from the start of April? I make that 1p a mile. Seems like madness.
It's a clever move from the electricity companies. With the current issues with petrol/diesel it's a perfect opportunity to entice more people into EV's.They'll make more from the higher cost for peak usage and standing charges, and also from selling more power during quiet periods. It's a win/win for them.
Fred Smith said:
Quick question... was chatting to someone recently, they own a Peugeot 208 EV and claim it costs them £2 a week to charge.
Assuming that they are telling the truth, and assuming they are on a great tarrif which I am sure they are, how many miles are they doing a week?
£2 at 5p/kWh is 40kWh.Assuming that they are telling the truth, and assuming they are on a great tarrif which I am sure they are, how many miles are they doing a week?
Assume 3.5 m/kWh and that's 140 miles per week or 7280 miles per year. That's pretty average for the UK.
Yes EV's really ARE that cheap to run if you can charge from home!
Inlineonline said:
Fred Smith said:
Quick question... was chatting to someone recently, they own a Peugeot 208 EV and claim it costs them £2 a week to charge.
Assuming that they are telling the truth, and assuming they are on a great tarrif which I am sure they are, how many miles are they doing a week?
£2 at 5p/kWh is 40kWh.Assuming that they are telling the truth, and assuming they are on a great tarrif which I am sure they are, how many miles are they doing a week?
Assume 3.5 m/kWh and that's 140 miles per week or 7280 miles per year. That's pretty average for the UK.
Yes EV's really ARE that cheap to run if you can charge from home!
Fred Smith said:
Quick question... was chatting to someone recently, they own a Peugeot 208 EV and claim it costs them £2 a week to charge.
Assuming that they are telling the truth, and assuming they are on a great tarrif which I am sure they are, how many miles are they doing a week?
Yep - now costs us £2.30 or so to 'fill' the Model 3. That's getting me around 260 miles. Octopus Intelligent Go which is 3.99p overnight. Typically costing around £1.20 a week to fuel it. Assuming that they are telling the truth, and assuming they are on a great tarrif which I am sure they are, how many miles are they doing a week?
raspy said:
SWoll said:
Franco5 said:
Has anyone else s Octopus Intelligent Go dropped to 3.49p per kWh from the start of April? I make that 1p a mile. Seems like madness.
It's a clever move from the electricity companies. With the current issues with petrol/diesel it's a perfect opportunity to entice more people into EV's.They'll make more from the higher cost for peak usage and standing charges, and also from selling more power during quiet periods. It's a win/win for them.
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