£100-150k Pension Pot car: 10-15yrs High Risk!
Discussion
Pica-Pica said:
roca1976 said:
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I think the generation likely to be able to spend decent coin in 2040 are probably 25-35 years old now and would still desire a manual naturally aspirated supercar?
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That assumption is a pretty big gamble.I think the generation likely to be able to spend decent coin in 2040 are probably 25-35 years old now and would still desire a manual naturally aspirated supercar?
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People are behind the curve on this.
You can t buy a F430 Manual for £90k now and even a F1 is hard to find at £90k for a good one. The cheapest F430 Manual is a spider at £145k.
There is only one 996 GT3 for sale now with JzM the others have sold.
There are no gallardo superleggeras for sale
The 355 GTB manuals have gone and the cheapest now is a silver one but it was an F1 and has been converted to manual and is £120k so real ones are more
No 996 GT3 RS for sale either
360 CS RHD hard to find
There were no Scuderias either but a few have come to market
If you actually look and call dealers many have sold
360 Modena manuals are available and seem to be under priced compared to 360CS with the F1 box
It s happened at a great pace this year
Newer stuff like 992 GT3 made in too high numbers and it s clear people are going to the normally aspirated stuff and non hybrid or turbod stuff
So from your suggestions avoid 992 GT3, you don’t want an E46 M3 but the CSL is fantastic, and maybe a Gallardo manual or 360 Manual or even a 991 GT3 RS if you want something newer
Look what you could have bought 10 years ago for £100k and some of those cars are now 5x that.
Running costs are modest if SORN half a year and on a second car policy you’re talking hundreds not thousands. Yes you have running costs but you don’t need to service a car every year if it’s only doing 2,000 miles (flame suit on!) and so running costs could be kept down to £2,500 pa easy enough on most things or even less if you’re careful.
SLS AMG coupe also a good shout and running costs modest
And obviously running costs more modest on a Porsche than on the Italian stuff.
You can t buy a F430 Manual for £90k now and even a F1 is hard to find at £90k for a good one. The cheapest F430 Manual is a spider at £145k.
There is only one 996 GT3 for sale now with JzM the others have sold.
There are no gallardo superleggeras for sale
The 355 GTB manuals have gone and the cheapest now is a silver one but it was an F1 and has been converted to manual and is £120k so real ones are more
No 996 GT3 RS for sale either
360 CS RHD hard to find
There were no Scuderias either but a few have come to market
If you actually look and call dealers many have sold
360 Modena manuals are available and seem to be under priced compared to 360CS with the F1 box
It s happened at a great pace this year
Newer stuff like 992 GT3 made in too high numbers and it s clear people are going to the normally aspirated stuff and non hybrid or turbod stuff
So from your suggestions avoid 992 GT3, you don’t want an E46 M3 but the CSL is fantastic, and maybe a Gallardo manual or 360 Manual or even a 991 GT3 RS if you want something newer
Look what you could have bought 10 years ago for £100k and some of those cars are now 5x that.
Running costs are modest if SORN half a year and on a second car policy you’re talking hundreds not thousands. Yes you have running costs but you don’t need to service a car every year if it’s only doing 2,000 miles (flame suit on!) and so running costs could be kept down to £2,500 pa easy enough on most things or even less if you’re careful.
SLS AMG coupe also a good shout and running costs modest
And obviously running costs more modest on a Porsche than on the Italian stuff.
Edited by datelessregistrations on Friday 27th March 21:00
I think the most important aspect is that you want to own the car and drive it. If I only drove a car 1k miles a year, then it would probably just depress me. The way I usually try to man-math it is that I expect the cars to go up and while I add mileage it makes the car overall a cheaper ownership proposition as the overall increasing value covers off some of the cost of adding miles thereby reducing the value again like for like. I have no illusions though that it is a "good investment". I thought about an F40, F50 and CGT in 2014 and that would have been a good investment, especially the Ferraris. But at the time I did not want to take on debt to buy a car, albeit one I really would have loved to own.
Purley as investment today try to get a LHD 996 RS or a LHD M3 CSL if you can find one in the UK (ideally at a UK-level price / close to it as opposed to the price on the continent) and then wait for the 25 years to be up and export it to the US. Both were not sold in the US as far as I am aware, so they will appreciate a lot over time imo. But if you don't want to drive them / own them, then it would be terribly if they do not appreciate / wasted chance at some memories with a car you really want. As I posted earlier 2000 to 2012 is the time period to target imo as those are the people who are coming into money now / will eventually look to buy a toy once they are settled / more comfortable financially and they will look back at the cars they wanted when they were teenagers.
Purley as investment today try to get a LHD 996 RS or a LHD M3 CSL if you can find one in the UK (ideally at a UK-level price / close to it as opposed to the price on the continent) and then wait for the 25 years to be up and export it to the US. Both were not sold in the US as far as I am aware, so they will appreciate a lot over time imo. But if you don't want to drive them / own them, then it would be terribly if they do not appreciate / wasted chance at some memories with a car you really want. As I posted earlier 2000 to 2012 is the time period to target imo as those are the people who are coming into money now / will eventually look to buy a toy once they are settled / more comfortable financially and they will look back at the cars they wanted when they were teenagers.
Peterpetrole said:
Of no interest to me, but E type prices have come way way down from where they were, peaked in 2016.
Which could mean -
1) There was a speculative bubble, big in Japan, now popped
2) They are now a bargain
3) They never were that special
4) They were very special and will be appreciated again
5) They could rocket again
6) They could stagnate
In terms of bona fide classics, they'll be a lot of data out there on E type sale prices, so maybe study that for an example of potential up and down side.
It's fairly simple IMHO.Which could mean -
1) There was a speculative bubble, big in Japan, now popped
2) They are now a bargain
3) They never were that special
4) They were very special and will be appreciated again
5) They could rocket again
6) They could stagnate
In terms of bona fide classics, they'll be a lot of data out there on E type sale prices, so maybe study that for an example of potential up and down side.
The E-Type debuted at the 1961 Geneva Motor Show.
11 year old boys around the country were entranced by it.
Those boys were 55-65 year old men in the period 2005-2015, peak classic-owning years.
Today that 11-year-old is 76, a bit old for squeezing into an E-type.
The customer base is literally aging out, and not being replaced.
samoht said:
It's fairly simple IMHO.
The E-Type debuted at the 1961 Geneva Motor Show.
11 year old boys around the country were entranced by it.
Those boys were 55-65 year old men in the period 2005-2015, peak classic-owning years.
Today that 11-year-old is 76, a bit old for squeezing into an E-type.
The customer base is literally aging out, and not being replaced.
I think pretty much every classic car follows the same curve and it is in many ways the natural way of things. I'm 45 and I can look at an e-type and I think it's a beautiful car and I would admire it in a museum or at a car show but I really have no interest in actually owning one. The E-Type debuted at the 1961 Geneva Motor Show.
11 year old boys around the country were entranced by it.
Those boys were 55-65 year old men in the period 2005-2015, peak classic-owning years.
Today that 11-year-old is 76, a bit old for squeezing into an E-type.
The customer base is literally aging out, and not being replaced.
At my age if I was to put an age range on cars I would want to buy it probably starts at around the late 80's when I guess I first started really noticing cars and i'm probably losing interest in most things built after about 2020 roughly.
datelessregistrations said:
Running costs are modest if SORN half a year
SORN etc saving will be small compared with other costs on a £150k car.datelessregistrations said:
running costs could be kept down to £2,500 pa easy enough on most things or even less if you re careful.
Per my earlier comment the "cost" of inflation over 10 years will be c.£45,000. Add £25,000 of running expenses and you're at £70,000, half the cost of the car.
This looks expensive motoring at £3.50 a mile before the car leaves the driveway. The classic market would have to be incredibly buoyant to just get to breakeven.Per my earlier comment the "cost" of inflation over 10 years will be c.£45,000. Add £25,000 of running expenses and you're at £70,000, half the cost of the car.
I suggest it's impossible to list any car in budget that is likely to be a solid gold investment, or even break even allowing for cost of ownership, over fifteen years.
I don't think the historic market trends are a reliable indicator of the future. Too many unknowns in terms of fossil fuel availability, government interventions, new ICE cars running sustainable fuels, or roads clogged with self driving white goods that make driving for pleasure impossible.
Maybe buy something currently holding firm in value, that you desire, with a view to getting out of it evens in five years time.
I don't think the historic market trends are a reliable indicator of the future. Too many unknowns in terms of fossil fuel availability, government interventions, new ICE cars running sustainable fuels, or roads clogged with self driving white goods that make driving for pleasure impossible.
Maybe buy something currently holding firm in value, that you desire, with a view to getting out of it evens in five years time.
datelessregistrations said:
People are behind the curve on this.
You can t buy a F430 Manual for £90k now and even a F1 is hard to find at £90k for a good one. The cheapest F430 Manual is a spider at £145k.
There is only one 996 GT3 for sale now with JzM the others have sold.
There are no gallardo superleggeras for sale
The 355 GTB manuals have gone and the cheapest now is a silver one but it was an F1 and has been converted to manual and is £120k so real ones are more
No 996 GT3 RS for sale either
360 CS RHD hard to find
There were no Scuderias either but a few have come to market
If you actually look and call dealers many have sold
360 Modena manuals are available and seem to be under priced compared to 360CS with the F1 box
It s happened at a great pace this year
Newer stuff like 992 GT3 made in too high numbers and it s clear people are going to the normally aspirated stuff and non hybrid or turbod stuff
So from your suggestions avoid 992 GT3, you don t want an E46 M3 but the CSL is fantastic, and maybe a Gallardo manual or 360 Manual or even a 991 GT3 RS if you want something newer
Look what you could have bought 10 years ago for £100k and some of those cars are now 5x that.
Running costs are modest if SORN half a year and on a second car policy you re talking hundreds not thousands. Yes you have running costs but you don t need to service a car every year if it s only doing 2,000 miles (flame suit on!) and so running costs could be kept down to £2,500 pa easy enough on most things or even less if you re careful.
SLS AMG coupe also a good shout and running costs modest
And obviously running costs more modest on a Porsche than on the Italian stuff.
You can t buy a F430 Manual for £90k now and even a F1 is hard to find at £90k for a good one. The cheapest F430 Manual is a spider at £145k.
There is only one 996 GT3 for sale now with JzM the others have sold.
There are no gallardo superleggeras for sale
The 355 GTB manuals have gone and the cheapest now is a silver one but it was an F1 and has been converted to manual and is £120k so real ones are more
No 996 GT3 RS for sale either
360 CS RHD hard to find
There were no Scuderias either but a few have come to market
If you actually look and call dealers many have sold
360 Modena manuals are available and seem to be under priced compared to 360CS with the F1 box
It s happened at a great pace this year
Newer stuff like 992 GT3 made in too high numbers and it s clear people are going to the normally aspirated stuff and non hybrid or turbod stuff
So from your suggestions avoid 992 GT3, you don t want an E46 M3 but the CSL is fantastic, and maybe a Gallardo manual or 360 Manual or even a 991 GT3 RS if you want something newer
Look what you could have bought 10 years ago for £100k and some of those cars are now 5x that.
Running costs are modest if SORN half a year and on a second car policy you re talking hundreds not thousands. Yes you have running costs but you don t need to service a car every year if it s only doing 2,000 miles (flame suit on!) and so running costs could be kept down to £2,500 pa easy enough on most things or even less if you re careful.
SLS AMG coupe also a good shout and running costs modest
And obviously running costs more modest on a Porsche than on the Italian stuff.
- the yellow 996 GT3 alluded to earlier has also now sold
Edited by datelessregistrations on Friday 27th March 21:00
datelessregistrations said:
Look what you could have bought 10 years ago for £100k and some of those cars are now 5x that.
True, but you could have put 100k into the S&P 500 and that would be worth 427k now. No hassle, no running costs, no storage or maintenance costs and you don't have to get lucky picking the right car. You don't have a car to do 1-2k a year miles in but if you just want money then the car is a terrible decision.If it was me I'd lower my budget and buy a nice car to use, forget about car investing and put the remainder into an index tracking fund.
cb31 said:
datelessregistrations said:
Look what you could have bought 10 years ago for £100k and some of those cars are now 5x that.
True, but you could have put 100k into the S&P 500 and that would be worth 427k now. No hassle, no running costs, no storage or maintenance costs and you don't have to get lucky picking the right car. You don't have a car to do 1-2k a year miles in but if you just want money then the car is a terrible decision.If it was me I'd lower my budget and buy a nice car to use, forget about car investing and put the remainder into an index tracking fund.
I think there are better investments than most cars
But at least you can ‘man maths’ a classic manual Ferrari and get some enjoyment (and potential heartache!)
I had been considering an investment car as well. I was looking for a 675LT then I realised that I would only want to keep driving it and ruin the investment potential. In the end I bought the very best 650s on the market and now I am just going to drive the hell out of it. Still think the Aventador SV looks good in comparison to the already gone SVJ though.
okgo said:
Running costs probably the bigger concern as I can t imagine running a Ferrari on a public sector pension is going to work out too well.
OP has no mortgage, and I'm told by someone who owns older Ferrari(s) apparently they are 'Suprisngly cheap' to own if you don't use them that much.Public sector pensions are probably the one thing that compared well interms of financial compensation versus the private sector. As well as a decent lump sum, the pension amount will keep pace with inflation, 3.8% increase in pension pay this year.
Base my own current pension statement and the 2015 1/54 rule, excluding matched CPI inflation growth per year but including the annual 1.5% growth in addition to inflation, if I take my pension at full retirement age I would be in a similar position as the below - You than add in 2 decades of Inflation related growth, and the figure is pretty mad.
I doubt however I'll be waiting till retirement age to take my pension, but my wife is also on the same scheme, so in reality we aren't worried at all about our pension income even if we take early retirement.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/pensions/news/su...
Edited by gangzoom on Tuesday 31st March 07:07
gangzoom said:
and I'm told by someone who owns older Ferrari(s) apparently they are 'Suprisngly cheap' to own if you don't use them that much.
"Cheap" is quite subjective depending on the individual personal circumstances.Edited by gangzoom on Tuesday 31st March 07:07
Very well asking the forum for a list of supercars to buy, but the OP should really do some diligence on the ongoing maintenance cost (as raised by several posters on this thread) on these cars too. If he is expecting top dollar when he comes to sell in 15 years time, I expect potential buyers of such cars will want impeccable service and maintenance records i.e. a service book filled with Halford or Kwik Fit stamps just won't cut it.....
ZX10R NIN said:
Mclaren 12C:
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202509096...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202511208...
Isn't 12c complete financial ruin?! totally reminded me now, Hoovies Garage had one and that repair list with invoice was a complete disaster.https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202509096...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202511208...
For the OP, I know a few pensioners drive air*cooled (beard, obviously
), neat clean, 993 or 964. They are ultimate classic, and drive/feel much better than any of the supercars you list to be honest, and pretty much safe bets.Gassing Station | Car Buying | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff