Time for a engine 're fresh

[sundance002]

It's time for a complete engine refresh plus some new upgrades, bigger turbos, bigger piston, water injection, throttle bodies and carbon drive shaft and new cv joints
Brand new gearbox but keeping that under wraps for the moment,
Should take power from 720bhp up to ????
See what we can Get,
Will keep this updated as we move along,
Thanks skip at Bespoke for getting the engine out, it's now with Bourne racing and Terry Bourne will be doing the work
Onwards and upwards

Just about to be taken apart

[The devil]

Bloody hell, you'll need superglue on your tyres

[mgbond]

Nice. Look forward to reading about it

[sundance002]

The devil said:

Bloody hell, you'll need superglue on your tyres

Lol Seems those cup sports stick to the road Like superglue.

[sundance002]

mgbond said:

Nice. Look forward to reading about it

Hi MrBond seems like a graveyard on here nowdays, So thought I would post my progress
Once again.
Hope things are good with you.

[sundance002]

sundance002 said:

,Terry finished the strip today. Oil was very dirty, lots of ware on bearings and pistons. We should be running a piston to bore clearance of 0.06mm but due to wear on the piston skirts and bore it has opened up to 0.15mm which has resulted in the blow by we have seen and drop in power.
We will bore the block and go for a wider piston to reset this clearance.
Also we will have the special coating on the side of this piston to limit wear.
Other than parts we expected to be worn all looks good.
Here are some pics

Click on pic to open other photo's

[Blu3R]

Hi Craig, is he going to knife-edge the crank? Looks like a lot of material could come off...

[sundance002]

Blu3R said:

Hi Craig, is he going to knife-edge the crank? Looks like a lot of material could come off...

Hey Rob,
Yes the crank is being sent to Andrews Precision
How's things?

[andygtt]

Looking good and very interested to see your results.

Im also having to do a winter rebuild of the engine as Ive got very similar wear, my oil usage was extremely high. I also found the valve seals gone as well as my turbo literally falling apart internally.

Ironically I'm ditching the M800 and fitting the same ecu as you as i ran out of inputs to run the DBW I'm now fitting... Im also changing the box and doing a few other mods.

[mgbond]

All good with me.

What is the benefit of knife edging?

Were those pistons forged Cosi ones.

When I did my 2.5 I had the pistons ceramic coated and anti set grooves added.

[andygtt]

No, the cossie pistons already had a slipper coat on the skirts.... Not convinced the cossie ones are the best to go with now as they only different by the fact they had a slipper coat lol I'm considering changing mine to something else.

[sundance002]

andygtt said:

Looking good and very interested to see your results.

Im also having to do a winter rebuild of the engine as Ive got very similar wear, my oil usage was extremely high. I also found the valve seals gone as well as my turbo literally falling apart internally.

Ironically I'm ditching the M800 and fitting the same ecu as you as i ran out of inputs to run the DBW I'm now fitting... Im also changing the box and doing a few other mods.

Hi Andy, we were happy with the wear of the engine, considering 3 years had passed ,
The engine never missed a beat, and to run 720bhp 600ftlb torque without any reliability issues is pretty darn special.
The turbos have a little wear, but only need a 're fresh, we will 're build the turbo cases and internals to allow more boost through them.
Oil usage has been very good, only the last 3 month did I notice oil usage was higher.
Surprised to hear about your turbo?
Do you think it's due to the strain being solely on one turbo?
The life ecu, is the way forward, and AER make a superb race loom to go with it,
You really should speak to Terry before you buy the ecu and loom,
He has very good connections to both company's. He could save u some good money.
Regarding box? Are you going the same way as Martin? Or have you gone for the one of the other ideas?

[sundance002]

mgbond said:

All good with me.

What is the benefit of knife edging?

Were those pistons forged Cosi ones.

When I did my 2.5 I had the pistons ceramic coated and anti set grooves added.

It allows the crank to cut through the oil easier,
So faster revs, and more bhp.

Pistons where Cosi, but don't see the point in them as Andy said.

[Blu3R]

sundance002 said:

Blu3R said:

Hi Craig, is he going to knife-edge the crank? Looks like a lot of material could come off...

Hey Rob,
Yes the crank is being sent to Andrews Precision
How's things?

Not bad thanks mate, yourself?

What are the bores like seeing as there's some scoring on the pistons? Are you getting away with a hone or re-sleeving (not even sure you can re-sleeve these, can you??)? I know on some pistons the rings can expand to the point that they touch together and press into the bore. I'm sure he's thought about clearances but grinding back the tips can help to eliminate that if it's a possibility, especially the first between the top and second land due to the heat transfer.

[sundance002]

Blu3R said:

Not bad thanks mate, yourself?

What are the bores like seeing as there's some scoring on the pistons? Are you getting away with a hone or re-sleeving (not even sure you can re-sleeve these, can you??)? I know on some pistons the rings can expand to the point that they touch together and press into the bore. I'm sure he's thought about clearances but grinding back the tips can help to eliminate that if it's a possibility, especially the first between the top and second land due to the heat transfer.

There are scores on the bore too, With the bores clearance widening to 0.15mm The pistons are going to be made wider. On the M400 the pistons are CP forged pistons, made in USA, not Cosi or anyone I have found make off the shelf parts for the engine, incl Mountune anymore.
So they have promised me a turn around of 5 wks incl shipping to make me a new Set,
To the wider spec, fully ceramic coated, So no need for sleeves.
We will 're bore to accommodate the wider pistons. The head will be once again gas flowed, and polished.
We have decided against knife edging the crank, reason is that the gain is not worth the reliability issues it brings by weakening the crank. We will 're balance and clean and remove just a little to complete the balancing,
The fly wheel is shot, was a fully lightened Fidanza flywheel, but will be using our own,
As we now will be offering pistons, Flywheels and Carbon drive shaft off the shelf, amoungst other performance upgrades. Incl Ecu by Life and Bespoke looms made for the engine by AER racing.

[AMG Merc]

Hey Craig Who is "we"?

[sundance002]

AMG Merc said:

Hey Craig Who is "we"?

Bourne Racing along with Bespoke engineering

[sundance002]

All the rods wrapped and ready to be sent to Arrow


Also been informed that I should do away with my throttle cable, and connect through the ecu. Meaning The map can be adjusted to allow for all the throttle input,and positions
It sounds the way forward to me.

[andygtt]

Hi Craig

The Cosworth pistons had a slipper coat on the skirts, yours do not so they were not the cossie ones that jetstream used to do (can't get them anymore anyhow). Im planning different pistons but whatever i run will have the skirt slipper coat.

My Turbo is a very lowly in spec compared to the twins you run, its just that the compressor map suits the engine perfectly as you have more choice with a single than you do with the Twins... also the fact i use the launch control for 'demo' purposes and on boost i run way outside its material component temps range.
Basically its a disposable item in its current spec and has done better than expected, on plus side its cheaper than just one of your twins ... I expected it to be on its last legs and had budgeted for a new fangled roller bearing one. Still sticking with Borg Warner though.

I already have the ecu, loom etc... and I'm going a different route to Martin, my understanding is his version was used by Graham and it wasn't reliable and he had to revert back to the stock box. or has he changed it since then?

The fact we wore our engines out rather than blew it up as we used to do shows how cost effective switching to a proper ecu is... definatelty moved the game on.

Ironically I think the 700bhp club will cease to exist soon, as i know Kevin is also doing some significant developments to release more power... so if we all succeed it will become the 800bhp club
and we will all have done it via different routes and different development programs...

[sundance002]

andygtt said:

Hi Craig

The Cosworth pistons had a slipper coat on the skirts, yours do not so they were not the cossie ones that jetstream used to do (can't get them anymore anyhow). Im planning different pistons but whatever i run will have the skirt slipper coat.

My Turbo is a very lowly in spec compared to the twins you run, its just that the compressor map suits the engine perfectly as you have more choice with a single than you do with the Twins... also the fact i use the launch control for 'demo' purposes and on boost i run way outside its material component temps range.
Basically its a disposable item in its current spec and has done better than expected, on plus side its cheaper than just one of your twins ... I expected it to be on its last legs and had budgeted for a new fangled roller bearing one. Still sticking with Borg Warner though.

I already have the ecu, loom etc... and I'm going a different route to Martin, my understanding is his version was used by Graham and it wasn't reliable and he had to revert back to the stock box. or has he changed it since then?

The fact we wore our engines out rather than blew it up as we used to do shows how cost effective switching to a proper ecu is... definatelty moved the game on.

Ironically I think the 700bhp club will cease to exist soon, as i know Kevin is also doing some significant developments to release more power... so if we all succeed it will become the 800bhp club
and we will all have done it via different routes and different development programs...

Completely agree, the ecu is the way forward,
My engine was still reasonable and usable,
The ecu never had to cut Boost or ignition,
So no real issues.
My pistons were CP Forged one's made in USA
As in my post above they bèn sent back to be made . Have you gone to twin injectors on each cylinder? Another great thing about that ecu, we can run 2 different size injectors one at low revs the other at high revs, controlled by the ecu.

I believe Martin had problem with casing not being up to the job? I'm looking at ways to try to solve that.
Think Mr Summo way is the way forward.
If of course u want to keep the H patern 6sp
Which I do.
Interesting, disposable turbo, cost Me a grand each one just for a 're fresh lol.
We are allowing or should I say aiming for , around 30% more power.
So fare bit larger turbos without any further lag. Carbon plenham so hope no more chance of blowing a whole in it.
And the great thing is all the power can be dialer via the ecu, so the car will not loose any of its driverability
.should be absolutely awesome.
800 Club? 900 Club will be the absolute nuts )))
And if they keep rising in value, may even get my money back in 10 years time lol.

Fm will be nearly 70 (((( May not even be able to get in it lol

Edited by sundance002 on Thursday 7th December 21:09