Discussion
dvshannow said:
What’s happening with the broader car market , is tesla an outlier here ? Is this a perfect storm of high electricity prices, recession , excess supply and Musk alienating the “left”? Latter 2 being more tesla specific
It's a function mainly of China demand being much lower than they expected. Hence excess Shanghai made cars which were expected to be sold in China are being exported to Europe instead. Chipper said:
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So £59000 Polstar vs £48000 Tesla which is faster, better equipped , better Tech and better range and with access to a proper charging infrastructure. I’m guessing there are a lot of Legacy manufacturers a bit worried right now.
So £59000 Polstar vs £48000 Tesla which is faster, better equipped , better Tech and better range and with access to a proper charging infrastructure. I’m guessing there are a lot of Legacy manufacturers a bit worried right now.
I love the look of the Polestars, but they make little sense in that pricing.dvshannow said:
What’s happening with the broader car market , is tesla an outlier here ? Is this a perfect storm of high electricity prices, recession , excess supply and Musk alienating the “left”? Latter 2 being more tesla specific
No idea, but I've seen them do it before. In 2019 when I went shopping, the E-tron had just come out, as did the Taycan, Tesla dropped the price on the Model S making it a bargain compared to the other two.Chipper said:
LivLL said:
New inventory Model 3’s are now £40470 down from £48k a short while ago, no wonder residuals are in free fall.
Just had a look at Polstar prices ( which I really like the look of ) against a model 3 long range which are now retailing at £47990. A Polstar 2 long range with just the pilot pack which adds adaptive cruise is just under £55000. You need to add the plus pack to get the heat pump , electric front seats and that’s another £4000 so £59000 compared to £48000 for the Tesla . So £59000 Polstar vs £48000 Tesla which is faster, better equipped , better Tech and better range and with access to a proper charging infrastructure. I’m guessing there are a lot of Legacy manufacturers a bit worried right now.
Do you think Louis Vutton got worried when Tesco introduced it's 'bag for life' at 10p?
People like to buy different things.
Tesla has much bigger margins to play with than legacy automakers, and has the first mover advantage of being a EV-only manufacturer. Come 2030 (in theory at least) all manufacturers will need to have an EV-only lineup.
They could reduce prices by another 20% and still have 5-10% margin on each car.
They still have the only dependable nationwide public charging infrastructure. I got my first EV in 2019 and the landscape basically hasn't changed since then, it's actually gone backwards in some areas (councils cutting back on subsidised chargers, etc).
Whilst there will always be people who buy Porsches and Mercedes on purely aspirational terms, Tesla could easily consume the mid-range and lower end of the market. I could forsee a situation in which it's them and the Chinese and maybe Korean brands as the only game in town.
I'm not a fan of Elon, and there's plenty wrong with Tesla and their cars in terms of how they do business, the stuff that doesn't work and things they take away, but ignoring their margin advantage is silly.
They could reduce prices by another 20% and still have 5-10% margin on each car.
They still have the only dependable nationwide public charging infrastructure. I got my first EV in 2019 and the landscape basically hasn't changed since then, it's actually gone backwards in some areas (councils cutting back on subsidised chargers, etc).
Whilst there will always be people who buy Porsches and Mercedes on purely aspirational terms, Tesla could easily consume the mid-range and lower end of the market. I could forsee a situation in which it's them and the Chinese and maybe Korean brands as the only game in town.
I'm not a fan of Elon, and there's plenty wrong with Tesla and their cars in terms of how they do business, the stuff that doesn't work and things they take away, but ignoring their margin advantage is silly.
soupdragon1 said:
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Do you think Louis Vutton got worried when Tesco introduced it's 'bag for life' at 10p?
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Mainly because your analogy isn't valid e.g. the legacy car makers are not "Louis Vutton" ad Tesla isn't "Tesco".Do you think Louis Vutton got worried when Tesco introduced it's 'bag for life' at 10p?
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In fact, many teenagers (future buyers of tomorrow) regard Tesla as the cool, aspirational brand and attach little value to the traditional German car brands.
EddieSteadyGo said:
soupdragon1 said:
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Do you think Louis Vutton got worried when Tesco introduced it's 'bag for life' at 10p?
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Mainly because your analogy isn't valid e.g. the legacy car makers are not "Louis Vutton" ad Tesla isn't "Tesco".Do you think Louis Vutton got worried when Tesco introduced it's 'bag for life' at 10p?
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In fact, many teenagers (future buyers of tomorrow) regard Tesla as the cool, aspirational brand and attach little value to the traditional German car brands.
dvshannow said:
EddieSteadyGo said:
soupdragon1 said:
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Do you think Louis Vutton got worried when Tesco introduced it's 'bag for life' at 10p?
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Mainly because your analogy isn't valid e.g. the legacy car makers are not "Louis Vutton" ad Tesla isn't "Tesco".Do you think Louis Vutton got worried when Tesco introduced it's 'bag for life' at 10p?
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In fact, many teenagers (future buyers of tomorrow) regard Tesla as the cool, aspirational brand and attach little value to the traditional German car brands.
Maybe Tesla needs to contact Louis Vuitton to frock up their cars, appealing to a more "premium" market, price it against the German 3 and call it Teslaudi.Durzel said:
Tesla has much bigger margins to play with than legacy automakers, and has the first mover advantage of being a EV-only manufacturer. Come 2030 (in theory at least) all manufacturers will need to have an EV-only lineup.
Germany blinked first and moved their EV only date to 2040 - not to mention EV will come much later in less developed continents.My Model Y LR was delivered earlier today. I have to say I was a little surprised how much things have moved on from my 2020 Model 3. Build quality, paint, doors that feel substantial when you shut them, and most of all the improvement in ride quality. Way better than a previous BMW 640d and not far behind a Jag XF.
MaxFromage said:
My Model Y LR was delivered earlier today. I have to say I was a little surprised how much things have moved on from my 2020 Model 3. Build quality, paint, doors that feel substantial when you shut them, and most of all the improvement in ride quality. Way better than a previous BMW 640d and not far behind a Jag XF.
Good news.Re doors that feel substantial, the engineering of that is very subtle & smart. To make a door feel “heavier” just play with the hinge dynamics; to make it shut with a “solid noise” most of that is in the design of seals & stops, with a healthy dose of psychoacoustics.
Good that Tesla are taking that seriously. And interesting that it clearly works
MaxFromage said:
My Model Y LR was delivered earlier today. I have to say I was a little surprised how much things have moved on from my 2020 Model 3. Build quality, paint, doors that feel substantial when you shut them, and most of all the improvement in ride quality. Way better than a previous BMW 640d and not far behind a Jag XF.
Hi Elon, is that you?0/10 for originality I'm afraid 
Elon is a plonker, but luckily I can separate the car from the Musk.
As an everyday car, the Model 3 was right up there. As a company car it was as cheap as motoring gets (bar a 15 year old Toyota Yaris), enjoyable to drive (really) and didn't put a foot wrong. No time wasted putting up with s
t coffee at a dealership, queuing at the petrol station and the charging experience has always been convenient for my own uses. I did look at other EVs to replace the Model 3, but (unlike many) I love the minimalist interior, which for me is really relaxing.
It appears the Y will follow on from this.
Elon is a plonker, but luckily I can separate the car from the Musk.As an everyday car, the Model 3 was right up there. As a company car it was as cheap as motoring gets (bar a 15 year old Toyota Yaris), enjoyable to drive (really) and didn't put a foot wrong. No time wasted putting up with s
t coffee at a dealership, queuing at the petrol station and the charging experience has always been convenient for my own uses. I did look at other EVs to replace the Model 3, but (unlike many) I love the minimalist interior, which for me is really relaxing.It appears the Y will follow on from this.
MaxFromage said:
My Model Y LR was delivered earlier today. I have to say I was a little surprised how much things have moved on from my 2020 Model 3. Build quality, paint, doors that feel substantial when you shut them, and most of all the improvement in ride quality. Way better than a previous BMW 640d and not far behind a Jag XF.
Interesting. I owned a M3P for a year back in 2019 but am collecting a MY LR a week tomorrow so it'd be good if I come to the same conclusion. Saying that, I actually never thought the M3P was that bad really and had zero niggles with it, maybe I was lucky.I've watched quite a few MY reviews, most mention the ride quality but it seems this might have been improved since launch? Sounds like yours is fine.
Well if this is hard suspension, then everyone has gone soft 
It's got nothing on a BMW MSport. I've also just noticed the tyres have been overinflated by 5psi which won't help... You can definitely feel the extra weight and increase in suspension height over the Model 3, with a very mild feeling of the back end pushing you on cornering.
It's got nothing on a BMW MSport. I've also just noticed the tyres have been overinflated by 5psi which won't help... You can definitely feel the extra weight and increase in suspension height over the Model 3, with a very mild feeling of the back end pushing you on cornering.An early Model Y out of Shanghai without the rear parcel shelf was without question the second worst riding car I have been in, apart from my mate’s lowered and slammed Ford Escort back in the day.
BMW M Sport suspension I’ve experienced in 1, 3 and 5 series on run flats had nothing on that early Model Y.
BMW M Sport suspension I’ve experienced in 1, 3 and 5 series on run flats had nothing on that early Model Y.
Edited by wyson on Friday 17th March 14:16
They are great cars and I think a lot of people still base their reviews on the original cars and not the updated ones.
My Model Y is excellent. The suspension is firm but not to the point of jarring expected considering the weight and it is a lot better than the A4 or A6 S Lines I had.
My Model Y is excellent. The suspension is firm but not to the point of jarring expected considering the weight and it is a lot better than the A4 or A6 S Lines I had.
somouk said:
They are great cars and I think a lot of people still base their reviews on the original cars and not the updated ones.
My Model Y is excellent. The suspension is firm but not to the point of jarring expected considering the weight and it is a lot better than the A4 or A6 S Lines I had.
Not an evangelist - ours is not 'excellent' but as a day to day thing - superb.My Model Y is excellent. The suspension is firm but not to the point of jarring expected considering the weight and it is a lot better than the A4 or A6 S Lines I had.
wyson said:
An early Model Y out of Shanghai without the rear parcel shelf was without question the second worst riding car I have been in, apart from my mate’s lowered and slammed Ford Escort back in the day.
BMW M Sport suspension I’ve experienced in 1, 3 and 5 series on run flats had nothing on that early Model Y.
My wife has an OG Model Y. Superb car overall, but the ride is dog sBMW M Sport suspension I’ve experienced in 1, 3 and 5 series on run flats had nothing on that early Model Y.
Edited by wyson on Friday 17th March 14:16
t. We’re waiting on the updated Model X arriving (or maybe now the Kia EV9) as we need more space, but if we didn’t I’d swap the Y for a 2023 car with a better ride.Gassing Station | Tesla | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff