Model X after 2 years and 28k.

[jay2000]

I wonder if they don't need anyone to sign the loaner vehicle is because they know exactly what you have been doing with all the data and cameras around the vehicle.

[xjay1337]

I have to be honest reading this isn't making me feel particularly enthused about one day owning a Tesla.
Technology seems great but quality and reliability seem questionable and a high cost of replacement parts

[Durzel]

findtomdotcom said:

Thank you so much for keeping this updated. I have been toying with the idea of buying a Model 3 to replace our i3S. However, my buying experience was awful so I have held off for now... Tesla just want you to buy cars without test driving them and that is something I fundamentally disagree with on a £50k car. And that's if you can get anyone to answer a phone or their web chat... So reading how often yours has been back and forth with issues is extremely useful.

They are interesting and maybe one of the best EVs for range, but so far, their customer service and sales style hasn't won me over. But they don't care do they, the cars will sell anyway.

Tesla do driving days, which I'm sure will start up again once this dies down. That pretty much sold the car for me there and then. I was already keen enough to do the day, but the guy who let me go out in the car on my own, twice, without any sales spiele at all, made me buy one the same evening.

I guess that approach doesn't work for everyone though. I was already "warm" going in, and had read up about the car and had a reasonable idea of its capabilities. Coming from an i3 (Evezy) myself I wasn't going to be bowled over by the EV qualities of it, but I was blown away by how effective Autopilot was. As you probably know on the i3 there is a very narrow set of circumstances where the "traffic jam assist" works at all, and it constantly nags you if you even think about lifting your hand away from the wheel. On the Model 3 I found an A road and engaged Autopilot and the car drove itself all the way along it, slowing down for traffic, etc with just my thumb resting on the steering wheel. It was a revelation.

Anyway, as you rightly point out, Tesla don't have any trouble selling the car under normal conditions. But I'd highly recommend going to one of the driving day experiences they do.

[aestetix1]

xjay1337 said:

I have to be honest reading this isn't making me feel particularly enthused about one day owning a Tesla.
Technology seems great but quality and reliability seem questionable and a high cost of replacement parts

If you get a brand new Model 3 you will probably be okay, although there are alternatives that might be more suited and certainly more reliable now.

But older Teslas... Well, if you really want one then I'd suggest at least getting an extended warranty, and be aware that any features it is advertised with might be removed after sale e.g. free supercharging and EAP or whatever they are calling it today.

I almost ordered an X but even brand new that car has had so many issues and many of them are not fully resolved.

[gangzoom]

xjay1337 said:

I have to be honest reading this isn't making me feel particularly enthused about one day owning a Tesla.
Technology seems great but quality and reliability seem questionable and a high cost of replacement parts

I've just happened to read this nice piece about a 22 year old Micra to try and take my mind off COVID19. I think we can all agree a 22 year old Tesla of any kind will not be able to come close to the reliability of a £200 22 year Micra!

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/features/road-t...

My first car was a Micra, I like Nissan and reliability, but I wouldn't swap our X for a Leaf even if the Leaf had 500 miles+ of real life range on a charge. Despite the fact I know Hyundai/Kia do EVs with much more reliability / range / functionality per £ than any other brand of EV on the market I have little interest in owing one my self, though I have recommended them to many people.

[findtomdotcom]

Durzel said:

Tesla do driving days, which I'm sure will start up again once this dies down. That pretty much sold the car for me there and then. I was already keen enough to do the day, but the guy who let me go out in the car on my own, twice, without any sales spiele at all, made me buy one the same evening.

My sales experience could not have been more different. 4 months ago, I used the website, (which for a tech company is laughable), rang my nearest centre (Heathrow), no one answered. Ended up speaking to another showroom, (I forget which) who booked me a test drive. I then received a phone call about a week before the drive, (perfect), had a great chat until he mentioned I only had the car with him for 20 mins..... I asked for longer, he said he didn't need to give the car to me for longer as its enough for most people to buy it anyway. Obviously I cancelled the test drive. No offer of a longer drive or driving day.

Any idea how I get to go on a driving day?

[aestetix1]

findtomdotcom said:

My sales experience could not have been more different. 4 months ago, I used the website, (which for a tech company is laughable), rang my nearest centre (Heathrow), no one answered. Ended up speaking to another showroom, (I forget which) who booked me a test drive. I then received a phone call about a week before the drive, (perfect), had a great chat until he mentioned I only had the car with him for 20 mins..... I asked for longer, he said he didn't need to give the car to me for longer as its enough for most people to buy it anyway. Obviously I cancelled the test drive. No offer of a longer drive or driving day.

Any idea how I get to go on a driving day?

These days they prefer to use pressure selling tactics. You were lucky to be offered 20 minutes, most of the time they just tell you to buy one and if you don't like it you can return it in the first week. Obviously by that point they hope that you will be committed and talk yourself into keeping it even if there are problems.

[anonymous-user]

aestetix1 said:

findtomdotcom said:

My sales experience could not have been more different. 4 months ago, I used the website, (which for a tech company is laughable), rang my nearest centre (Heathrow), no one answered. Ended up speaking to another showroom, (I forget which) who booked me a test drive. I then received a phone call about a week before the drive, (perfect), had a great chat until he mentioned I only had the car with him for 20 mins..... I asked for longer, he said he didn't need to give the car to me for longer as its enough for most people to buy it anyway. Obviously I cancelled the test drive. No offer of a longer drive or driving day.

Any idea how I get to go on a driving day?

These days they prefer to use pressure selling tactics. You were lucky to be offered 20 minutes, most of the time they just tell you to buy one and if you don't like it you can return it in the first week. Obviously by that point they hope that you will be committed and talk yourself into keeping it even if there are problems.

This is one of the reasons I haven’t even considered one. The e Niro more suits our needs, to be fair, but given the way Tesla sell and the 60 miles + I would need to travel to see one they would never be considered.

I would think there are many like me though it’s no concern to Tesla whilst they can sell all the cars they build.

[gangzoom]

findtomdotcom said:

My sales experience could not have been more different.

Tesla customers service seems to have nose dived for some. Before we even ordered ours I had driven two on 'show events' Tesla put on in the local Marriott hotel.

We than initially ordered an S, but after the X came out I enquired about possibly changing the order. When the Brimingham showroom got one of the first LHD Xs in the country I was offered a test drive in one, which was enough to convince me to swap our order over from a S to a X.

At the time Tesla were often offering out weekend long test drive to people (though not official policy). They even use to do a collect/drop service if you were flying out of Heathrow......that was long long time ago though.

Getting a test drive now though right now is next to impossible, unless you need a loan car like in my situation. But overall despite what others report my own experience of customer service from Tesla remain very good.

Edited by gangzoom on Tuesday 7th April 14:01

[aestetix1]

REALIST123 said:

I would think there are many like me though it’s no concern to Tesla whilst they can sell all the cars they build.

I think that's the issue, while they have no incentive to do better they will just keep exploiting buyers as much as possible. It was even worse with the S and X, no other company would get away with so many faults and such poor service but they have this reality distortion field a bit like Apple where people will put up with all sorts of nonsense.

[anonymous-user]

aestetix1 said:

REALIST123 said:

I would think there are many like me though it’s no concern to Tesla whilst they can sell all the cars they build.

I think that's the issue, while they have no incentive to do better they will just keep exploiting buyers as much as possible. It was even worse with the S and X, no other company would get away with so many faults and such poor service but they have this reality distortion field a bit like Apple where people will put up with all sorts of nonsense.

Maybe. I remember back in 2015 I had a short drive in an S at the Swaffham Energy Centre where they occasionally brought them. No different from any other test drive really.

I remember being generally OK with the car but it was just too expensive compared to the 5 series I had then and the XF that eventually replaced it.

[gangzoom]

aestetix1 said:

no other company would get away with so many faults and such poor service .

You haven't dealt with a Sytner BMW dealer have you

Edited by gangzoom on Tuesday 7th April 17:47

[dhutch]

Witchfinder said:

Nice, thanks for the information.

That really.

[Heres Johnny]

gangzoom said:

aestetix1 said:

no other company would get away with so many faults and such poor service .

You haven't dealt with a Sytner BMW dealer have you

[Img]https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49746587636_40e72ec200_c_d.jpg[/thumb]

Edited by gangzoom on Tuesday 7th April 17:47

Doesn't that just prove they're not getting away with it?

Tesla owners would have still given a 5/5 service and said "its teething troubles", "they're a new company", "that rubber strip around the door isn't important unless its raining", "its only a bit of brake fluid missing when I took delivery of a brand new car", "they've agreed to replace the rear glass thats got a stress fracture underwarranty within 6 weeks, what great customer service" etc

[gangzoom]

Heres Johnny said:

Doesn't that just prove they're not getting away with it?

But Sytner BMW hasn't learnt anything from bad customer service, they are still awful and always will be.

My main worry about Tesla isn't the small stuff, its more how Tesla ignore the fact the battery if abused suffers major degredation and poor DC rapid charging performance.

I still didn't half believe the 85 pack nerfing and DC rapid charge limiting till I Supercharged that loaner P85D. In additional to only been able to DC rapid charge at Nissan Leaf speeds, the total range of that car was barely 150 miles, despite it been a nice sunny day and me driving it like I would our 75D X.

That loaner I had was barely 5 years old with not even 60k on the clock, and it was already in effect ready for the EV scrap yard given how badly that battery had degraded in charging and range performance .

The fact is people are still get drawn to 'free unlimited Supercharging' and Tesla don't tell people up front if they make use of it they will end up with a very crippled battery pack and Tesla will not honor any warranty claim on the pack is far worse than anything to do with trim or other issues that may come up with car.

You and I both know Tesla cannot wait for the 8 years warranty to be up on all their S/Xs so they can truly forget about our cars interms of battery support.

Would I touch any used Tesla with 'free for life Supercharging'?? No thank you. Those Model 3s aren't spared either, not if the behaviour of lease owners on here are anything to go by, charging to 100% with DC charging all the time.

Once the public realises how badly EV packs behave when used in this way used prices of EVs will plummet, as the only way you can guarantee good battery performance is to buy brand new. At that point any pretence EVs are 'green' will go out of the window and we'll have dieselgate all over again .

Ofcourse if you treat with battery packs with sympathy things are fine, our 75D pack will still hit nearly 120KW.



But I suspect having to treat their cars with mechanical/electrical sympathy is only something us early adopters will put up with. Most car buyers will just want to plug in, charge to 100% as quickly as possible and than drive..........

And why shouldn't they, that's how they use their current combustion cars, and EV manufactures surely would never sell them a product they know will have major performance degredation after only a few years of use resulting in the need to buy another brand new car. Because as we all know car companies always want to look after their customers longterm dont they

Edited by gangzoom on Friday 10th April 04:22

[gangzoom]

https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/maximum-ch...

For anyone looking to buy ANY used Tesla with unknown Superchagering history, don't say you haven't been warned.

Makes me laugh people are still obsessing over 150KW+ rapid charging ability for new EVs been sold today.

Come 2025 EV chargergate will be the main headlines for nearly all EVs.

Go back to petrol for our next car? Never say never.

Edited by gangzoom on Friday 10th April 04:50

[SWoll]

gangzoom said:

https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/maximum-ch...

For anyone looking to buy ANY used Tesla with unknown Superchagering history, don't say you haven't been warned.

Makes me laugh people are still obsessing over 150KW+ rapid charging ability for new EVs been sold today.

Come 2025 EV chargergate will be the main headlines for nearly all EVs.

Go back to petrol for our next car? Never say never.

Edited by gangzoom on Friday 10th April 04:50

Is it not the case though that for the majority of owners fast charging is used exclusively on those infrequent occasions where a particularly long trip is required and that is why faster speeds are seen as important as they don't want to be sat charging for hours on an already long journey?

As an example we would usually cover approx 15k miles per year (so double the UK average) but in 4 months with our Model 3 have only supercharged twice with the rest being done at home on a 3-Pin granny charger. And that is with us having the car on a deal where supercharging is included in the monthly price.

There will of course be owners who are DC/supercharging a lot more regularly than that but I'd expect them to be a minority, especially when you consider the cost of public fast charging for anything other than the Model S/X for most owners?

[anonymous-user]

SWoll said:

gangzoom said:

https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/maximum-ch...

For anyone looking to buy ANY used Tesla with unknown Superchagering history, don't say you haven't been warned.

Makes me laugh people are still obsessing over 150KW+ rapid charging ability for new EVs been sold today.

Come 2025 EV chargergate will be the main headlines for nearly all EVs.

Go back to petrol for our next car? Never say never.

Edited by anonymous-user on Friday 10th April 04:50

Is it not the case though that for the majority of owners fast charging is used exclusively on those infrequent occasions where a particularly long trip is required and that is why faster speeds are seen as important as they don't want to be sat charging for hours on an already long journey?

As an example we would usually cover approx 15k miles per year (so double the UK average) but in 4 months with our Model 3 have only supercharged twice with the rest being done at home on a 3-Pin granny charger. And that is with us having the car on a deal where supercharging is included in the monthly price.

There will of course be owners who are DC/supercharging a lot more regularly than that but I'd expect them to be a minority, especially when you consider the cost of public fast charging for anything other than the Model S/X for most owners?

You’d think so, and we have no intention of using our EV for long trips necessitating any use of public chargers, like many I would think.

Then again, it does seem to be an issue for a significant number of Tesla owners, as Gangzoom has said.

[Baldchap]

Have to say, despite a few minor build issues our old MX didn't really do anything wrong, barring being too big for some multi storey car parks and the like.

[SWoll]

REALIST123 said:

SWoll said:

gangzoom said:

https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/maximum-ch...

For anyone looking to buy ANY used Tesla with unknown Superchagering history, don't say you haven't been warned.

Makes me laugh people are still obsessing over 150KW+ rapid charging ability for new EVs been sold today.

Come 2025 EV chargergate will be the main headlines for nearly all EVs.

Go back to petrol for our next car? Never say never.

Edited by gangzoom on Friday 10th April 04:50

Is it not the case though that for the majority of owners fast charging is used exclusively on those infrequent occasions where a particularly long trip is required and that is why faster speeds are seen as important as they don't want to be sat charging for hours on an already long journey?

As an example we would usually cover approx 15k miles per year (so double the UK average) but in 4 months with our Model 3 have only supercharged twice with the rest being done at home on a 3-Pin granny charger. And that is with us having the car on a deal where supercharging is included in the monthly price.

There will of course be owners who are DC/supercharging a lot more regularly than that but I'd expect them to be a minority, especially when you consider the cost of public fast charging for anything other than the Model S/X for most owners?

You’d think so, and we have no intention of using our EV for long trips necessitating any use of public chargers, like many I would think.

Then again, it does seem to be an issue for a significant number of Tesla owners, as Gangzoom has said.

I think that fact they come with free supercharging makes people use it a lot more on the S/X than they perhaps usually would. My guess would be the problem will be a lot less common on Model 3's.