New Tesla Pickup Truck

New Tesla Pickup Truck

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Discussion

Darkslider

3,071 posts

188 months

Sunday 7th June 2020
quotequote all
ChocolateFrog said:
ReformedPistonhead said:
ChocolateFrog said:
Have they confirmed they're actually importing it?

The only full size trucks you see are the Dodge Rams with the V10 engine and the odd F150.
Well they let me put a deposit down and they know where I live so I hope so.

I am borrowing a Dodge Ram shortly when my Morgan is getting serviced to see how I go with a mahoosive truck at Sainsbury's. Expecting a lot of hate for a 5.7l V8 black mega-truck ;-)
Stranger things have happened but I'd be surprised personally if they bother to convert then to RHD and officially import them.
Part of me hopes they don't, as I always said the Tesla pickup was going to be the first vehicle to tempt me into the murky world of finance and buying brand new. Then I saw what it looked like, and unfortunately despite whatever else it has going for it, I think it ranks right up there as one of the worst looking vehicles I've ever seen, and a shining example of when function over form can be taken a bit too far frown

ZesPak

24,421 posts

195 months

Sunday 7th June 2020
quotequote all
hyphen said:
By the time full driving happens, the current Tesla's will be knackered through normal usage.

The batteries may be able to do 500k+ miles, but other expensive components won't. And all the usual wear and tear rules will apply.

It won't be worth upgrading them.
Yes, because everyone does at least 25k/year.
And then it'll still take 20 years.

aestetix1

868 posts

50 months

Monday 8th June 2020
quotequote all
jamoor said:
Its a fallacy to believe that self driving isnt coming.
Oh it's coming, just not from Tesla.

In fact it's already here, Waymo is operating a self-driving taxi service without drivers right now.

But Tesla aren't going to do it any time soon, if ever. Everyone uses lidar, except Tesla. That hobbled them. You can tell they are years and years behind because they haven't even demonstrated a 3D map of the environment yet, an absolute requirement for self-driving.

RobDickinson

31,343 posts

253 months

Monday 8th June 2020
quotequote all
aestetix1 said:
jamoor said:
Its a fallacy to believe that self driving isnt coming.
Oh it's coming, just not from Tesla.

In fact it's already here, Waymo is operating a self-driving taxi service without drivers right now.

But Tesla aren't going to do it any time soon, if ever. Everyone uses lidar, except Tesla. That hobbled them. You can tell they are years and years behind because they haven't even demonstrated a 3D map of the environment yet, an absolute requirement for self-driving.
https://twitter.com/tesla/status/1120815737654767616?lang=en

Heres Johnny

7,175 posts

123 months

Monday 8th June 2020
quotequote all
I've got to take issue with both of you.

Mobileye are following the same route as Tesla and aren't using LIDAR, their public release version of eyeQ4 is very capable (way past eyeQ3 which was the basis of AP1 and the version that Tesla are only just about beating now in terms of basic lane keeping capabilities) and they're well into eyeQ5 development.

On the flip side, Tesla are hankering over image visualisation as if that is all it takes to achieve FSD. There is way way way more to self driving than decomposing an image. The most noticable is the ability to understand movement and predict paths. It takes more than spoting a traffic light, thats really basic image detection stuff. Everytime you do a capture thing where it says click on "a store front" "a water hydrant" or "a person" it using simple image detection algorythms. Knowing how fast a car is coming towards you, whether its speeding up or slowing down, all to know if you can make a turn across its path before it reaches you.. and doing so without lkilling someboby 100% of the time.. thats a new order of magniture Tesla aren't at.

RobDickinson

31,343 posts

253 months

Monday 8th June 2020
quotequote all
Heres Johnny said:
It takes more than spoting a traffic light,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fKXztwtXaGo

what you see on the cars screen is a very simplified view of what it is doing, or are you not understanding that?

Heres Johnny

7,175 posts

123 months

Monday 8th June 2020
quotequote all
RobDickinson said:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fKXztwtXaGo

what you see on the cars screen is a very simplified view of what it is doing, or are you not understanding that?
Even the title of that supports what I'm saying

"This Is What Tesla's Autopilot Sees On The Road"

The key word being "Sees"


ZesPak

24,421 posts

195 months

Monday 8th June 2020
quotequote all
Heres Johnny said:
Even the title of that supports what I'm saying

"This Is What Tesla's Autopilot Sees On The Road"

The key word being "Sees"
I agree with you that software is more than what it needs to see, but I don't get what you're implying about the way tesla does it?

jamoor

14,506 posts

214 months

Monday 8th June 2020
quotequote all
Heres Johnny said:
I've got to take issue with both of you.

Mobileye are following the same route as Tesla and aren't using LIDAR, their public release version of eyeQ4 is very capable (way past eyeQ3 which was the basis of AP1 and the version that Tesla are only just about beating now in terms of basic lane keeping capabilities) and they're well into eyeQ5 development.

On the flip side, Tesla are hankering over image visualisation as if that is all it takes to achieve FSD. There is way way way more to self driving than decomposing an image. The most noticable is the ability to understand movement and predict paths. It takes more than spoting a traffic light, thats really basic image detection stuff. Everytime you do a capture thing where it says click on "a store front" "a water hydrant" or "a person" it using simple image detection algorythms. Knowing how fast a car is coming towards you, whether its speeding up or slowing down, all to know if you can make a turn across its path before it reaches you.. and doing so without lkilling someboby 100% of the time.. thats a new order of magniture Tesla aren't at.
Does mobileye use fleet learning to improve their system?

I can see that being a major dfferentiating factor as more and more teslas are being driven off forecourts.

jamoor

14,506 posts

214 months

Monday 8th June 2020
quotequote all
Sambucket said:
If we change the question to ‘the best’ consumer fsd, to one of the best, like ncap, the argument fizzles out a bit.

Currently Tesla has the leading product, certainly in scope, and imo execution, that is available to use right now.

We can speculate they might be overtaken, but it’s inconceivable to me they won’t be right up there with Mobileeye. It won’t be a monopoly.
Monopoly won't happen, but I think it will turn into a war of platforms.

Tesla is the vertically integrated model much like apple that try to do everything themselves.
Google and Intel supply the services/software to run on anyones hardware (much like android/windows on various brands of phone)

Teslas approach of doing everything yourself is very understandable, especially if they had a fallout with mobileye already.

TeaNoSugar

1,229 posts

164 months

Monday 8th June 2020
quotequote all
Darkslider said:
ChocolateFrog said:
ReformedPistonhead said:
ChocolateFrog said:
Have they confirmed they're actually importing it?

The only full size trucks you see are the Dodge Rams with the V10 engine and the odd F150.
Well they let me put a deposit down and they know where I live so I hope so.

I am borrowing a Dodge Ram shortly when my Morgan is getting serviced to see how I go with a mahoosive truck at Sainsbury's. Expecting a lot of hate for a 5.7l V8 black mega-truck ;-)
Stranger things have happened but I'd be surprised personally if they bother to convert then to RHD and officially import them.
Part of me hopes they don't, as I always said the Tesla pickup was going to be the first vehicle to tempt me into the murky world of finance and buying brand new. Then I saw what it looked like, and unfortunately despite whatever else it has going for it, I think it ranks right up there as one of the worst looking vehicles I've ever seen, and a shining example of when function over form can be taken a bit too far frown
I might be months behind the news on this but whenever I see one of the Cybertruck prototypes, I just can’t see how that will pass our pedestrian safety standards? In fact with the size, and shape of the front end, the sharp edges and the fact that they’re claiming the steel is so strong it’s bullet-proof I just can’t see how it would conform to any pedestrian safety standards at all.

aestetix1

868 posts

50 months

Tuesday 9th June 2020
quotequote all
jamoor said:
Does mobileye use fleet learning to improve their system?

I can see that being a major dfferentiating factor as more and more teslas are being driven off forecourts.
Don't fall for that. Tesla cars aren't "learning" all the time like they claim, they don't have billions of miles of "experience".

All they do is waste your electricity by running autopilot even when it is turned off. If the driver does something that autopilot doesn't expect a note is made, and if it happens repeatedly with different cars in the same place they might pull some telemetry and video over your wifi so they can try to improve their system.

They also pull video of objects that the system has trouble recognizing to try to improve image recognition, again using your resources.

RobDickinson

31,343 posts

253 months

Tuesday 9th June 2020
quotequote all
aestetix1 said:
Don't fall for that. Tesla cars aren't "learning" all the time like they claim, they don't have billions of miles of "experience".

All they do is waste your electricity by running autopilot even when it is turned off. If the driver does something that autopilot doesn't expect a note is made, and if it happens repeatedly with different cars in the same place they might pull some telemetry and video over your wifi so they can try to improve their system.

They also pull video of objects that the system has trouble recognizing to try to improve image recognition, again using your resources.
Bullst.


https://www.reddit.com/r/teslamotors/comments/gey1...

jamoor

14,506 posts

214 months

Tuesday 9th June 2020
quotequote all
aestetix1 said:
jamoor said:
Does mobileye use fleet learning to improve their system?

I can see that being a major dfferentiating factor as more and more teslas are being driven off forecourts.
Don't fall for that. Tesla cars aren't "learning" all the time like they claim, they don't have billions of miles of "experience".

All they do is waste your electricity by running autopilot even when it is turned off. If the driver does something that autopilot doesn't expect a note is made, and if it happens repeatedly with different cars in the same place they might pull some telemetry and video over your wifi so they can try to improve their system.

They also pull video of objects that the system has trouble recognizing to try to improve image recognition, again using your resources.
I'm struggling to understand this post, you say they don't use fleet learning and then you say they do.
Which is it?

aestetix1

868 posts

50 months

Tuesday 9th June 2020
quotequote all
RobDickinson said:
That link backs up what I said.

aestetix1

868 posts

50 months

Tuesday 9th June 2020
quotequote all
jamoor said:
I'm struggling to understand this post, you say they don't use fleet learning and then you say they do.
Which is it?
The cars don't learn anything. They just look for cases where autopilot doesn't work and then try to adjust their system to cope with them. Everything except the image recognition isn't even AI, it's just an algorithm that is incapable of learning.

They make it sounds like it's Skynet teaching itself to drive a car, it's not. And billions of miles doesn't mean anything, what matters is the quality of data and the developer's ability to turn it into something useful.

That's why they are so far behind everyone else, they basically picked the wrong approach early on because it looked cheaper and five years later it doesn't work and the formerly expensive lidar hardware is getting cheap. Volvo is fitting advanced lidar to 2021 model year cars.

jamoor

14,506 posts

214 months

Tuesday 9th June 2020
quotequote all
aestetix1 said:
The cars don't learn anything. They just look for cases where autopilot doesn't work and then try to adjust their system to cope with them. Everything except the image recognition isn't even AI, it's just an algorithm that is incapable of learning.

They make it sounds like it's Skynet teaching itself to drive a car, it's not. And billions of miles doesn't mean anything, what matters is the quality of data and the developer's ability to turn it into something useful.

That's why they are so far behind everyone else, they basically picked the wrong approach early on because it looked cheaper and five years later it doesn't work and the formerly expensive lidar hardware is getting cheap. Volvo is fitting advanced lidar to 2021 model year cars.
I'm not tempted to say you don't even know what fleet learning means.

It's just like sending a bug report when windows crashes, the information is sent back to Microsoft who do something with it to improve the software.

https://www.tesla.com/en_GB/blog/upgrading-autopil...

From what I can see their self driving software on cars today are just as good as any other cars. You seem to be obsessed with items in development that arent a commercial reality.

aestetix1

868 posts

50 months

Tuesday 9th June 2020
quotequote all
jamoor said:
From what I can see their self driving software on cars today are just as good as any other cars. You seem to be obsessed with items in development that arent a commercial reality.
Just a reminder: Waymo self driving taxis with no safety driver are operating a commercial service right now.

aestetix1

868 posts

50 months

Tuesday 9th June 2020
quotequote all
Sambucket said:
So what are you saying. Tesla FSD is fake and just a dressed up driving assist, and will never keep up with mobileye?
Not fake, they are trying, just not what they imply it is. From their filings with California they say they did 0 (zero) autonomous miles last year but their cars "learning", which they aren't. They are at best identifying areas where their system doesn't work and trying to fix it. They make it sounds like their cars are out with L plates on getting lessons.

MobileEye obviously started ahead of Tesla and didn't hobble themselves by rejecting lidar, so yeah they are ahead at the moment.

jamoor

14,506 posts

214 months

Tuesday 9th June 2020
quotequote all
aestetix1 said:
jamoor said:
From what I can see their self driving software on cars today are just as good as any other cars. You seem to be obsessed with items in development that arent a commercial reality.
Just a reminder: Waymo self driving taxis with no safety driver are operating a commercial service right now.
Where can I go and purchase a waymo self driving car then?