Tesla model 3 P lease or buy?
Discussion
I wonder how OTA updates will impact the 3 residuals? Some older SX have hardware limitations that hurt resale, but I'm hoping the 2019 3 will be capable of receiving solid updates for a few years. If software functionality on the 2019 model 3 is comparable to the 2022 model 3, that will help keep things fresh. If they upgrade the MCU or anything in a non compatible way that would hurt. Also I guess I'm hoping Y pricing will increase.
ant1973 said:
The EVEZY price increase has forced me to reconsider my plans. £800 per month for a £38k car with limited maintenance is just too rich for me. My approach has been driven by the BIK change but as I own my company, I pay on the other side of the equation as well. No point in doing something for a personal benefit while leaving the company saddled with the debt.
I am genuinely uncertain as to Tesla residuals. Some days I think they are so far ahead that residuals will remain elevated on a 3-5 year basis. Other days I think that early adopters almost always overpay and will end up being stung. My impression is that battery technology is not evolving that quickly and it seemed unlikely to me that a gamechanger was imminent. No doubt battery prices will fall over time but again I am not sure if they will do so quickly. I think it is unlikely that a half price Tesla competitor is imminent. Tesla is probably the biggest competitor to Tesla. I can maybe see a £20k Citycar at some point in the next few years but I guess it will be short range and not a competitor for the 3 (accepting that a 3 does form some competition for the 5).
Even if game changing tech does emerge, how long will it take to hit the market? 5-10 years is my guess. New entrants to the market will have no ability to substantially reduce their prices given the roll up of legacy ICE costs being written off more quickly combined with new cap ex associated with electric cars.
I am inching towards buying an SR+. I figure that the entry model will take the least depreciation hit and will still be plenty quick enough for me. I will keep it for 5 years and take my chances.
Out of interest what kind of mileage do you do and what are you guessing the residual value of the car will be at 5 years old?I am genuinely uncertain as to Tesla residuals. Some days I think they are so far ahead that residuals will remain elevated on a 3-5 year basis. Other days I think that early adopters almost always overpay and will end up being stung. My impression is that battery technology is not evolving that quickly and it seemed unlikely to me that a gamechanger was imminent. No doubt battery prices will fall over time but again I am not sure if they will do so quickly. I think it is unlikely that a half price Tesla competitor is imminent. Tesla is probably the biggest competitor to Tesla. I can maybe see a £20k Citycar at some point in the next few years but I guess it will be short range and not a competitor for the 3 (accepting that a 3 does form some competition for the 5).
Even if game changing tech does emerge, how long will it take to hit the market? 5-10 years is my guess. New entrants to the market will have no ability to substantially reduce their prices given the roll up of legacy ICE costs being written off more quickly combined with new cap ex associated with electric cars.
I am inching towards buying an SR+. I figure that the entry model will take the least depreciation hit and will still be plenty quick enough for me. I will keep it for 5 years and take my chances.
jamoor said:
I directors loaned my company the money and the company will repay the loan back so maybe thats an option?
I don't think its crystall ball gazing with ICE cars that much as they can look at the last 3 generations of a BMW/Mercedes/Audi and make an educated guess. Not only that but nobody knows how much the leasing companies purchased the cars for. We know how much they paid for the Model 3 as Tesla don't offer leasing co's discounts.
Pretty sure you pay BIK on director's loans and there re complications for Corporation Tax. BIK on Co Car is nil next tax year and it is this which is driving the decision making for me. I don't think its crystall ball gazing with ICE cars that much as they can look at the last 3 generations of a BMW/Mercedes/Audi and make an educated guess. Not only that but nobody knows how much the leasing companies purchased the cars for. We know how much they paid for the Model 3 as Tesla don't offer leasing co's discounts.
ant1973 said:
jamoor said:
I directors loaned my company the money and the company will repay the loan back so maybe thats an option?
I don't think its crystall ball gazing with ICE cars that much as they can look at the last 3 generations of a BMW/Mercedes/Audi and make an educated guess. Not only that but nobody knows how much the leasing companies purchased the cars for. We know how much they paid for the Model 3 as Tesla don't offer leasing co's discounts.
Pretty sure you pay BIK on director's loans and there re complications for Corporation Tax. BIK on Co Car is nil next tax year and it is this which is driving the decision making for me. I don't think its crystall ball gazing with ICE cars that much as they can look at the last 3 generations of a BMW/Mercedes/Audi and make an educated guess. Not only that but nobody knows how much the leasing companies purchased the cars for. We know how much they paid for the Model 3 as Tesla don't offer leasing co's discounts.
The BIK makes it a very attractive purchase, much more than PCPing it yourself.
jamoor said:
I lent my company the money to PCP the car with a high deposit so no complications there.
The BIK makes it a very attractive purchase, much more than PCPing it yourself.
Apologies - I may have misunderstood your original post. BIK is a no brainer but would I normally contemplate spending £38k on a brand new car? Probably not!. I was thinking about waiting for the budget to see what if any changes they might make before pressing the button. The BIK makes it a very attractive purchase, much more than PCPing it yourself.
ant1973 said:
jamoor said:
I lent my company the money to PCP the car with a high deposit so no complications there.
The BIK makes it a very attractive purchase, much more than PCPing it yourself.
Apologies - I may have misunderstood your original post. BIK is a no brainer but would I normally contemplate spending £38k on a brand new car? Probably not!. I was thinking about waiting for the budget to see what if any changes they might make before pressing the button. The BIK makes it a very attractive purchase, much more than PCPing it yourself.
Sambucket said:
I wonder how OTA updates will impact the 3 residuals? Some older SX have hardware limitations that hurt resale, but I'm hoping the 2019 3 will be capable of receiving solid updates for a few years. If software functionality on the 2019 model 3 is comparable to the 2022 model 3, that will help keep things fresh. If they upgrade the MCU or anything in a non compatible way that would hurt. Also I guess I'm hoping Y pricing will increase.
Musk said V3 hardware is designed to run full self driving There are 2 relative computers in the 3.
The mcu - built into the screen, held on with 1 bolt and 1 cable for data, easy to update/replace.
The other is behind the glove box for fsd and is upgraded if you have v2.5 and buy fsd.
No UK cars(3s) have hw2.5 afik
If you don't use fsd hw3.0 is massively over powered
The mcu - built into the screen, held on with 1 bolt and 1 cable for data, easy to update/replace.
The other is behind the glove box for fsd and is upgraded if you have v2.5 and buy fsd.
No UK cars(3s) have hw2.5 afik
If you don't use fsd hw3.0 is massively over powered
SWoll said:
Dave Hedgehog said:
Musk said V3 hardware is designed to run full self driving
He says many things.Such as the 'coming later this year' FSD text on the Tesla website that has been in place since mid 2019..
Problem is how motivated are Tesla to get retrofit options to market? It seems they’re saturated just supplying cars. The notion that hardware can be upgraded easily like hot-swap components is a nice one in theory, a bit like Robotaxis and real self driving, but actually realising that seems to be a different matter.
Managed to haggle LeasePlan down to a £799.99 monthly (I said £800 was my mental limit) with a small reduction in the initial to £9,599.90. This is on a 2 year, 15k p/a contract. TCO is £27,976.90 which with a cash purchase price of £60,790.00 makes the GFV £32,813.10.
This translates to an effective depreciation level of 46.02%, or £1,199.00 a month as an effective monthly payment.
Is it more accurate to say that the car would depreciate by that sort of percentage in 3 years rather than 2?
The effects of 0% BIK are concerning me more than anything, as a private purchaser (and potential seller in 2 years time).
This translates to an effective depreciation level of 46.02%, or £1,199.00 a month as an effective monthly payment.
Is it more accurate to say that the car would depreciate by that sort of percentage in 3 years rather than 2?
The effects of 0% BIK are concerning me more than anything, as a private purchaser (and potential seller in 2 years time).
Edited by Durzel on Friday 10th January 14:19
I love my Model 3 Performance but I could never justify those figures.
I did a 2 year business lease 3+23 £550 plus VAT per month. So including VAT £17.1k over 2 years. 15k mileage per annum.
Prices have gone up but unless these things do prove to have great residuals, I would lease.
edit to add mine was a standard M3P, no FSD or options
I did a 2 year business lease 3+23 £550 plus VAT per month. So including VAT £17.1k over 2 years. 15k mileage per annum.
Prices have gone up but unless these things do prove to have great residuals, I would lease.
edit to add mine was a standard M3P, no FSD or options
Edited by MOBB on Friday 10th January 14:30
Edited by MOBB on Friday 10th January 14:30
Durzel said:
Managed to haggle LeasePlan down to a £799.99 monthly (I said £800 was my mental limit) with a small reduction in the initial to £9,599.90. This is on a 2 year, 15k p/a contract. TCO is £27,976.90 which with a cash purchase price of £60,790.00 makes the GFV £32,813.10.
This translates to an effective depreciation level of 46.02%, or £1,199.00 a month as an effective monthly payment.
Is it more accurate to say that the car would depreciate by that sort of percentage in 3 years rather than 2?
The effects of 0% BIK are concerning me more than anything, as a private purchaser (and potential seller in 2 years time).
After haggling they want £28k for a 2 year 30k deal where you have to provide your own insurance, tyres and public charging? This translates to an effective depreciation level of 46.02%, or £1,199.00 a month as an effective monthly payment.
Is it more accurate to say that the car would depreciate by that sort of percentage in 3 years rather than 2?
The effects of 0% BIK are concerning me more than anything, as a private purchaser (and potential seller in 2 years time).
Edited by Durzel on Friday 10th January 14:19
Can we assume that £6k of that is paying the full cost of FSD over the 2 year term?
Yeah, it’s a straight add on to the finance amount. No residual value in it. It only adds an extra £100 or so on top of the option cost though, for what that’s worth.
EDIT: I know you’re comparing to Evezy. I love Evezy, but I want a blue, white interior M3P with FSD, so insurance, tyres and charging costs are a given whether I buy outright or lease.
EDIT: I know you’re comparing to Evezy. I love Evezy, but I want a blue, white interior M3P with FSD, so insurance, tyres and charging costs are a given whether I buy outright or lease.
Edited by Durzel on Friday 10th January 15:03
MOBB said:
edit to add mine was a standard M3P, no FSD or options
its a gamble for sure, hopefully as the climate problems get worse and people become more open to EVs residuals will be strongerbut even if it became worthless i could keep my car 10 years (i budget on 5k depreciation a year), i can't imagine what more i could need from a car and its so damn cheap to run
and that's not taking into account the insane amount of improvements musk is updating the car with
Edited by Dave Hedgehog on Friday 10th January 15:10
Holy thread resurrection Batman!
Anyway, test drove one of these today but our accountant seems to think we need to buy it and offset CT against the company but I'm not sure I want to use £50k from the company just for our car right now.
From what I can read on here, leasing it and claiming half the VAT back seems the best idea?
I'm not too sure though?
Anyway, test drove one of these today but our accountant seems to think we need to buy it and offset CT against the company but I'm not sure I want to use £50k from the company just for our car right now.
From what I can read on here, leasing it and claiming half the VAT back seems the best idea?
I'm not too sure though?
Frimley111R said:
Holy thread resurrection Batman!
Anyway, test drove one of these today but our accountant seems to think we need to buy it and offset CT against the company but I'm not sure I want to use £50k from the company just for our car right now.
From what I can read on here, leasing it and claiming half the VAT back seems the best idea?
I'm not too sure though?
Indeed it is as you can put the lease, charger, insurance etc all through as business expenses. It's exactly what I did, although being VAT exempt means I can't reclaim any VAT. Anyway, test drove one of these today but our accountant seems to think we need to buy it and offset CT against the company but I'm not sure I want to use £50k from the company just for our car right now.
From what I can read on here, leasing it and claiming half the VAT back seems the best idea?
I'm not too sure though?
You can even have a second company electric car and put that through as well, perfect if you need a second personal car in the family. Again, it's what I did, enabling me to sell my wife's personal car and pocket the cash.
You could even make a company pension contribution of the £50k (assuming you have a Ltd company and enough allowance) and offset this against corporation tax, saving the company £9.5k in tax and getting yourself the full £50k tax free...
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