California Supercharger Queues
Discussion
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7755753/C...
Sorry for the Daily Mail link but does show the challenges that will be faced with wider adoption of EV without suitable investment in charging infrastructure. It sounds like Norway has seen a similar phenomenon too.
Even with that many charge points, if you have an influx of cars that exceed the number available in a given local area then it can be an instant log jam. One that potentially could take a lot longer to clear than a queue you'd find petrol station overwhelmed by panic buying for example.
With the big shift to electric going on we're now out of the chicken and egg problem, EV is coming wholesale. I wonder if this issue will be recognised and headed off before we start seeing scenes like this on a regular basis.
Sorry for the Daily Mail link but does show the challenges that will be faced with wider adoption of EV without suitable investment in charging infrastructure. It sounds like Norway has seen a similar phenomenon too.
Even with that many charge points, if you have an influx of cars that exceed the number available in a given local area then it can be an instant log jam. One that potentially could take a lot longer to clear than a queue you'd find petrol station overwhelmed by panic buying for example.
With the big shift to electric going on we're now out of the chicken and egg problem, EV is coming wholesale. I wonder if this issue will be recognised and headed off before we start seeing scenes like this on a regular basis.
Edited by The Wookie on Tuesday 15th December 14:59
The holiday period (this seems to be Thanksgiving) is really relevant. For 364 days of the year, whatever is provided is fine. But one day of the year you need 10X the infrastructure. No one will pay for that. Our equivalent will be the M5 services on the Cornish border on Bank Holiday....
The Wookie said:
...Sorry for the Daily Mail link but does show the challenges that will be faced with wider adoption of EV without suitable investment in charging infrastructure. It sounds like Norway has seen a similar phenomenon too...
This was LAST December - hardly news, and isn't the case 99.9999% of the time.We live in California with a Kia Niro EV, and as soon as I saw the headline I knew it was going to be Kettleman City at Thanksgiving! It's been bad there every Thanksgiving for years, as it's the main road between SF and LA and it's also a Holiday tradition for a lot of people to break the journey there for In'N'Out burgers. The burger queue might just be longer than the charger queue, now I come to think of it.
We usually head from LA to SF for Thanksgiving (obviously not this year) and for that particular drive we'll be taking my Fiesta ST instead of the EV. However, for the other 360+ days a year, we've not had any problems charging in and around LA. The Californian EV infrastructure isn't yet perfect, but it's been more than good enough for our purposes.
We usually head from LA to SF for Thanksgiving (obviously not this year) and for that particular drive we'll be taking my Fiesta ST instead of the EV. However, for the other 360+ days a year, we've not had any problems charging in and around LA. The Californian EV infrastructure isn't yet perfect, but it's been more than good enough for our purposes.
That particular one is right between SF and LA, a distance that is also just a bit too far for most Teslas. It's been upgraded since (faster superchargers) and there's a new 56-bay supercharger site a bit further along the road now. https://www.tesmanian.com/blogs/tesmanian-blog/tes...
rxe said:
The holiday period (this seems to be Thanksgiving) is really relevant. For 364 days of the year, whatever is provided is fine. But one day of the year you need 10X the infrastructure. No one will pay for that. Our equivalent will be the M5 services on the Cornish border on Bank Holiday....
It's a valid concern indeed.Doing 40k km/year (PC), I never need SuC. But on holiday, I do.
Loads of people take their holidays at the same time so it can be problematic on busier routes.
Infrastructure clearly hasn't matched demand yet in a number of areas and fast chargers are relatively expensive to install and power compared to <50kW chargers.
Something similar happened when all the dutchies went to France last year. The problem was compounded with the fact that Dutch regulations really favoured the Model 3 SR over the LR, so all of those had to visit most of the superchargers on their route, asking too much of some.
I was prepared with a Shell Recharge card and a longer range car to be able to skip the few hot points, but it's still a problem that needs to be adressed somehow. The fact that you have a readout of availability of Tesla chargers helps a lot to avoid full ones, but sometimes you probably just can't at this time.
dvs_dave said:
Yet this is actually a far more common scene 
It might be now but to be fair it still isn't really a common scene and it typically clears quickly. Like I said before it might happen to the point of multiple hours of delays during panic buying episodes or fuel shortages but in normal circumstances there's typically enough infrastructure to avoid it happening endemically. There could easily become hotspots at out of town shopping centres or at particular waypoints on common longer journeys. Most of it is going to be predictable, my question is whether there is enough being done to predict it.
Good example, Bicester. People will often travel over 100 miles to visit there, even with a long range EV with a comfortable 200+ mile range many will want 20-30kWh over a few hours shopping to avoid range anxiety, or the same amount with a quick coffee break on a fast charger on the way home.
Even without the issue of charging it can get massively congested around there, add in hundreds or thousands of people attempting to do the same thing with their EVs, it has the potential for an epic clusterf
k.Zcd1 said:
This was LAST December - hardly news, and isn't the case 99.9999% of the time.
That's my point, even with EV's currently being a niche choice with ample infrastructure for the limited number of vehicles and their typical use, it can still happen.We shouldn't be burying our heads in the sand, it needs thinking about.
The Wookie said:
That's my point, even with EV's currently being a niche choice with ample infrastructure for the limited number of vehicles and their typical use, it can still happen.
We shouldn't be burying our heads in the sand, it needs thinking about.
you are making something out of nothing.We shouldn't be burying our heads in the sand, it needs thinking about.
There are currently 908 tesla charging stations in the USA, compared to 25,000 in total (all brands & suppliers)
Tesla owners can use other charging points. Most will insist on using Tesla owned stations as some were offered free lifetime charging as a sales incentive for the car.
The Wookie said:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7755753/C...
With the big shift to electric going on we're now out of the chicken and egg problem, EV is coming wholesale. I wonder if this issue will be recognised and headed off before we start seeing scenes like this on a regular basis.
Well considering the article was written last year, and there is no article from this year you might have already answered your own question!With the big shift to electric going on we're now out of the chicken and egg problem, EV is coming wholesale. I wonder if this issue will be recognised and headed off before we start seeing scenes like this on a regular basis.
Edited by The Wookie on Tuesday 15th December 14:59
PixelpeepZ4 said:
you are making something out of nothing.
There are currently 908 tesla charging stations in the USA, compared to 25,000 in total (all brands & suppliers)
Tesla owners can use other charging points. Most will insist on using Tesla owned stations as some were offered free lifetime charging as a sales incentive for the car.
Are people daft enough to spend 50-100grand on a Tesla isn't daft enough to sit in a queue for the same amount of time they could pay a few dollars, leave their car at a slower charger and go for a wander round the shops for a few hours?There are currently 908 tesla charging stations in the USA, compared to 25,000 in total (all brands & suppliers)
Tesla owners can use other charging points. Most will insist on using Tesla owned stations as some were offered free lifetime charging as a sales incentive for the car.
Bearing in mind if the chargers aren't in the right places and don't have the power to avoid causing an inconvenience then it will force people into queuing at the fast charging stations.
To add some perspective, I’ve never had to queue at a supercharger in the UK.
Then again, I charge at home 90% of the time.
I have seen pictures of a queue at one supercharger location in Devon, from earlier this year when staycationing was the craze.
Public charge infrastructure is rapidly getting better. The range on EVs is also getting better, thus less EV owners will need to use the public network(a full charge overnight at home or at work will potentially see them through a 400mile journey, one day soon).
The real test will be when there is 50%+ adoption of EVs and we realise just how many people cannot charge at home and will thus rely entirely on a public charging network. My prediction is that the public charge options will be well up to speed by then though, because of the wonderful economic system that is capitalism.
Then again, I charge at home 90% of the time.
I have seen pictures of a queue at one supercharger location in Devon, from earlier this year when staycationing was the craze.
Public charge infrastructure is rapidly getting better. The range on EVs is also getting better, thus less EV owners will need to use the public network(a full charge overnight at home or at work will potentially see them through a 400mile journey, one day soon).
The real test will be when there is 50%+ adoption of EVs and we realise just how many people cannot charge at home and will thus rely entirely on a public charging network. My prediction is that the public charge options will be well up to speed by then though, because of the wonderful economic system that is capitalism.
The Wookie said:
Are people daft enough to spend 50-100grand on a Tesla isn't daft enough to sit in a queue for the same amount of time they could pay a few dollars, leave their car at a slower charger and go for a wander round the shops for a few hours?
Not even slower, fast chargers as well.Tbh a number of these people might never have needed Superchargers, let alone find a charger that isn't a SuC.
It's maybe just part of the education when getting a new EV that's missing.
JD said:
Well considering the article was written last year, and there is no article from this year you might have already answered your own question!
I don't see why it's any less relevant to us than it was a year ago, even assuming that temporary changes in behaviour caused by COVID haven't stopped it from happening this year and that the problem has actually been solved then it's worth understanding what capacity was needed to solve it and whether our governments and local authorities are learning from others mistakes.Or do we really need to wait for it to happen here first before we actually start planning for it?
The Wookie said:
I don't see why it's any less relevant to us than it was a year ago, even assuming that temporary changes in behaviour caused by COVID haven't stopped it from happening this year and that the problem has actually been solved then it's worth understanding what capacity was needed to solve it and whether our governments and local authorities are learning from others mistakes.
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