"They've gone to Plaid"
Discussion
ZesPak said:
I was under the impression that the TM3 was generally received as a very well driving car, even on track?
Yup. Early M3P models had a basic and simplistic traction / ESP system that seemed to pretty universally disliked. Too much grabbing, little modulation etc. Fast, absolutely, but not fluid and many early tests indicated that it was like driving on a knife edge - never quite knew when it was going to bite. Off-track, brutally quick in that whole '7/10ths driving style' way.Edited by ZesPak on Friday 29th January 00:02
Quickly iterated on the modes and brought track mode (I think thats what they called it) and the professional reviews said it was MUCH better. Less of a knife edge and much more consistent. But that got better, but it did highlight the weight, lack of very good brakes and overall steering & body control. Far from bad, and a major step up. But not as good as the best as other high performance brands like the M3/4 etc.
I remember Chris Harris (I think) doing an extended track drive in one and he was getting VERY close times to an M3 on track (some other reviews beat it), but would explain that it wasnt out of its capabilities, but the fact that you could wrestle it through the corners and get on the power sooner. Felt awful, not elegant or fluid at all, but the ability to get the power down meant that you could save time on a lap. He did say the M3 was just more fluid, entertaining and communicative, ultimately being much more fun.
So it depends on what you want - the M3P is a VERY good car, but if you are looking for the ultimate 4-door car on-limit / on-track experience, the M3 is the better car. But, would the average driver be able to differentiate? Do we need the final 10% of handling prowess? We might 'want' it, but might never actually drive to that.
I have a C63S - in all of the tests, the M3 beats it. Track, lap times etc. But in the same way, most reviews accepted that the AMG was easier to live with and while it might not have that final 10%, was WAAAY easier to live with for 90% of the way that people will drive it.
P.S. Dont listen to me - I used to think the 90-95 Rover 420i was a cracking car! Best thing for the price.... yeah, it wasnt.... ;-)
AB said:
Defensive much? Plenty of experience with EV's including Model S and 3 and I'm totally sold on EV's in general so don't worry about that.
Headline figures are all well and good but in reality it's great to show your mates or have a quick 'watch this' moment (then wait for it to cool down so you can do it again) but day to day I stick to my opinion that any Tesla I've driven has just been a bit... boring. I'd have bought one otherwise, if it was down to what I'd read on the internet.
Wonderful machines for slogging up and down motorways, but dynamically flawed.
I currently have a Model 3 as a sometimes daily and have to say its stunningly impressive. I don’t do much motorway driving but can imagine AB is right on his comment that they’re great on them. What I preferred to the Panamera and Taycan is that its easy to jump in, not have to push 1000 buttons to do anything, and then go very fast immediately (haven’t ever needed to cool it down by the way) Headline figures are all well and good but in reality it's great to show your mates or have a quick 'watch this' moment (then wait for it to cool down so you can do it again) but day to day I stick to my opinion that any Tesla I've driven has just been a bit... boring. I'd have bought one otherwise, if it was down to what I'd read on the internet.
Wonderful machines for slogging up and down motorways, but dynamically flawed.
Agree dynamically its not perfect, but not sure how many dailies cover as many bases so well. My Model S order due march has been automatically flipped to a Plaid (god knows when it’ll actually arrive), so either I’ll buy another M3 in the meantime or try a Taycan again - cancelled my original order once but might look again although didn’t love it when borrowed one for a weekend.
As someone else said EVs can be brilliant for day to day driving depending on what range you need, and then “normal” cars for weekends etc is a lovely combination,
Left hand side mine (now wife’s) on 85,000 miles right my dads on 110,000 miles.
The 100d I had on loan for a few weeks because mine was broken ............. again.
Example of a not such a great journey on a cold day.
When I took my dads car to Austria. The single worst journey of my life. Just to show I really did take these cars all over the place.
I should add that I am pretty pig headed and mostly refuse to change how I drive because of my car. When I spend this much money the car should fit into your lifestyle and be able to handle anything.
The 100d I had on loan for a few weeks because mine was broken ............. again.
Example of a not such a great journey on a cold day.
When I took my dads car to Austria. The single worst journey of my life. Just to show I really did take these cars all over the place.
I should add that I am pretty pig headed and mostly refuse to change how I drive because of my car. When I spend this much money the car should fit into your lifestyle and be able to handle anything.
Engineering Explained did a repeat of his 2500 mile drive in winter this time:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UskzfQJt2Bc&t=...
Lot of facts and figures, but bottom line is that it took something like 18% more energy to do the same journey, just in the cold. Which is pretty impressive, but he had to charge more frequently (but for less time) and while the range was impacted, when you factor it out across the longer distance, its not quite as bad as it might seem.
Soooo many factors and things to consider, but range drop in the cold is real. Though 345 to 145 seems a little high. Must be something else involved there.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UskzfQJt2Bc&t=...
Lot of facts and figures, but bottom line is that it took something like 18% more energy to do the same journey, just in the cold. Which is pretty impressive, but he had to charge more frequently (but for less time) and while the range was impacted, when you factor it out across the longer distance, its not quite as bad as it might seem.
Soooo many factors and things to consider, but range drop in the cold is real. Though 345 to 145 seems a little high. Must be something else involved there.
off_again said:
Soooo many factors and things to consider, but range drop in the cold is real. Though 345 to 145 seems a little high. Must be something else involved there.
I honk you're reading the chart wrong. The left number (345) is wh/mi, the right number (145) is projected range at current charge (which I don't immediately see).
345wh/mi would in theory give you 290mi from 100kwh (100 000/345), but no one drives 100%-0%. On long runs in winter, I think I'm about 15% lower than that but I usually keep it around 130km/h.
I had a X 90D for 2 years while working between Germany and Netherlands so Autobahn every week, high speed has a significant impact on range. My trip one way was about 190km I would use 80% to 90% charge or have to stop for a quick top up, depending on traffic. I also had performance degradation due to heat in the summer. For reference I also done the same journey many times in a 911, a full tank would get me 250km with low traffic also a BMW 320d.
Most practical for distance sustained high(ish) speed 320d
Fun 911
But the X was still great, not many SUVs that I can say I would want to do that drive in so often and also be able to load up with two dogs, luggage, wife and haul good knows how many cases of wine 400km from house to house and do the same thing a couple of days later (normally minus the wine).
I think the range is getting close or is at parity to anything with decent performance in the petrol space, Tesla's charging network is excellent.
Minimalist style is well...........style so a personal choice, quality has not been on par with price point but looks like the refresh will help.
Would I consider one again, absolutely but like any choice would depend on a lot of practical factors (commuting habits, charging on route etc.) but the extended range would definitely play a positive role.
Most practical for distance sustained high(ish) speed 320d
Fun 911
But the X was still great, not many SUVs that I can say I would want to do that drive in so often and also be able to load up with two dogs, luggage, wife and haul good knows how many cases of wine 400km from house to house and do the same thing a couple of days later (normally minus the wine).
I think the range is getting close or is at parity to anything with decent performance in the petrol space, Tesla's charging network is excellent.
Minimalist style is well...........style so a personal choice, quality has not been on par with price point but looks like the refresh will help.
Would I consider one again, absolutely but like any choice would depend on a lot of practical factors (commuting habits, charging on route etc.) but the extended range would definitely play a positive role.
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