Discounted stock Emiras...
Discussion
bcr5784 said:
Don't really understand that ubiquity should be such an issue - unless it's as good as the alternatives.
Porsches are great cars, there's no denying that, but with so many around they merge into the background unless it's a really special version. Petrol Ped, in one of his Emira / Boxster videos said the same, and he owned the Boxster 718GTS in the video. The Emira looks like a supercar and there's a lot of emotional value there. I've owned a Speed Yellow Boxster and it was stunning in terms of quality but it never excited me. Edited by bcr5784 on Sunday 1st September 22:19
Years ago a number of Lotus owners bought a Boxster/Cayman as there was nothing for them to buy after their Elises/Exiges but many came back because they just didn't feel passionate about them. Of course, some were just Lotus fan boys (I speak as one!) but I knew exactly what they felt.
That said, an Emira is far more Porsche than Elise/Exige so who knows? I'd spend my money on an Emira tomorrow (and may do) and even though I can see how nice a Porsche is, I don't want one but I can see why so many people do.
I know that there are people with Emira's who have had a great experience, but there appears to be an awful lot who haven't. I've been to look at a car at a dealer today and the sheer amount of Emira's in there clogging the place up for warranty work was eye opening. One had been practically dismantled.
Lotus really have handled the launch of this car very badly.
Lotus really have handled the launch of this car very badly.
Frimley111R said:
Porsches are great cars, there's no denying that, but with so many around they merge into the background unless it's a really special version. Petrol Ped, in one of his Emira / Boxster videos said the same, and he owned the Boxster 718GTS in the video. The Emira looks like a supercar and there's a lot of emotional value there. I've owned a Speed Yellow Boxster and it was stunning in terms of quality but it never excited me.
Years ago a number of Lotus owners bought a Boxster/Cayman as there was nothing for them to buy after their Elises/Exiges but many came back because they just didn't feel passionate about them. Of course, some were just Lotus fan boys (I speak as one!) but I knew exactly what they felt.
That said, an Emira is far more Porsche than Elise/Exige so who knows? I'd spend my money on an Emira tomorrow (and may do) and even though I can see how nice a Porsche is, I don't want one but I can see why so many people do.
I have owned an Exige S and and Cayman S. I do not track cars so only have road experience to go by.Years ago a number of Lotus owners bought a Boxster/Cayman as there was nothing for them to buy after their Elises/Exiges but many came back because they just didn't feel passionate about them. Of course, some were just Lotus fan boys (I speak as one!) but I knew exactly what they felt.
That said, an Emira is far more Porsche than Elise/Exige so who knows? I'd spend my money on an Emira tomorrow (and may do) and even though I can see how nice a Porsche is, I don't want one but I can see why so many people do.
Both cars were dynamically brilliant, quick, responsive and looked good. The Exige was “cooler” to look at and got a lot of attention as it was bright yellow. The Cayman never really got a second glance and was a darkish silver colour.
Not being a driving god both cars drove amazingly well to me
As much as they were similar they were vastly different. If I tried to sum it up, the Exige was designed for that one perfect drive, when the mood was right, the conditions were right and it’s foibles could be forgotten about,
The Cayman was designed to be great 95% of the time and easy to live with 100% of the time.
That is why Porsche sell so many cars and Lotus will ultimately struggle to survive.
skeeterm5 said:
I have owned an Exige S and and Cayman S. I do not track cars so only have road experience to go by.
Both cars were dynamically brilliant, quick, responsive and looked good. The Exige was “cooler” to look at and got a lot of attention as it was bright yellow. The Cayman never really got a second glance and was a darkish silver colour.
Not being a driving god both cars drove amazingly well to me
As much as they were similar they were vastly different. If I tried to sum it up, the Exige was designed for that one perfect drive, when the mood was right, the conditions were right and it’s foibles could be forgotten about,
The Cayman was designed to be great 95% of the time and easy to live with 100% of the time.
That is why Porsche sell so many cars and Lotus will ultimately struggle to survive.
Yep, can't disagree with that but the last line is a few years out of date. The Emira and next gen sports cars will be the first true competitors to Porsche in forever and I am pretty sure that Lotus have a multi billion dollar bank account these days, so survival is as close to being assured as Porsches is.Both cars were dynamically brilliant, quick, responsive and looked good. The Exige was “cooler” to look at and got a lot of attention as it was bright yellow. The Cayman never really got a second glance and was a darkish silver colour.
Not being a driving god both cars drove amazingly well to me
As much as they were similar they were vastly different. If I tried to sum it up, the Exige was designed for that one perfect drive, when the mood was right, the conditions were right and it’s foibles could be forgotten about,
The Cayman was designed to be great 95% of the time and easy to live with 100% of the time.
That is why Porsche sell so many cars and Lotus will ultimately struggle to survive.
What are we now about 18 months or so from the first deliveries.... Where are the special editions? The ship has sailed for me as I have a 4RS coming soon but I would have given a testicle for a GT based Emira. It's a real shame they will never be able to mate the V6 to a DCT that would have been the true sweet spot but obviously never going to happen.
I'm sure they will come to with some really special cars before it's phased out.
I'm sure they will come to with some really special cars before it's phased out.
My local Lotus main dealer have just given up their status - will no longer sell new Lotus as they don’t want the hassle of the electric cars, but will still be a service centre for the old models.
Sounds like they’ve also had enough of the amount of broken Emira littering the workshop for weeks on end.
Sounds like they’ve also had enough of the amount of broken Emira littering the workshop for weeks on end.
Square Leg said:
My local Lotus main dealer have just given up their status - will no longer sell new Lotus as they don’t want the hassle of the electric cars, but will still be a service centre for the old models.
Sounds like they’ve also had enough of the amount of broken Emira littering the workshop for weeks on end.
Central?Sounds like they’ve also had enough of the amount of broken Emira littering the workshop for weeks on end.
Frimley111R said:
Yep, can't disagree with that but the last line is a few years out of date. The Emira and next gen sports cars will be the first true competitors to Porsche in forever and I am pretty sure that Lotus have a multi billion dollar bank account these days, so survival is as close to being assured as Porsches is.
I am not sure that I share you optimism.Last year they lost almost £600m and have proven with Emira that they struggle to successfully launch what is really a bread and butter car.
What gives you confidence that they can successfully launch much more complex cars and that their rich parent will keep pumping money into a black hole?
Lotus have made a valiant effort with the Emira but really they will always be a bit player in the market. Lotus have just struggled out it's fault filled rebadged Evora Porsche are about to drop the first true mass market EV sports car range they are years ahead of Lotus in their positioning in the market and development of cars.
Lotus as a brand for enthusiasts is dead their best years well behind them. They are a lifestyle brand apparently but they aren't doing as well on their home turf as they hoped (China) the USA have shut the door to EV imports. It's not looking good for them really.
I'm very very happy to have a couple of their finest cars in my garage cars I truly believe are the very best that have ever been made but it's really very hard to see any sort of long term future for Lotus after the ICE car ban they just don't seem to have a decent product to sell. They really need an EV equivalent of the S1 Elise or even M100 to bring them back to life and sell in big numbers but unless they make a move to build cars outside China they will always struggle against tariffs and quite rightly so (different thread needed!)
Lotus as a brand for enthusiasts is dead their best years well behind them. They are a lifestyle brand apparently but they aren't doing as well on their home turf as they hoped (China) the USA have shut the door to EV imports. It's not looking good for them really.
I'm very very happy to have a couple of their finest cars in my garage cars I truly believe are the very best that have ever been made but it's really very hard to see any sort of long term future for Lotus after the ICE car ban they just don't seem to have a decent product to sell. They really need an EV equivalent of the S1 Elise or even M100 to bring them back to life and sell in big numbers but unless they make a move to build cars outside China they will always struggle against tariffs and quite rightly so (different thread needed!)
skeeterm5 said:
Frimley111R said:
Yep, can't disagree with that but the last line is a few years out of date. The Emira and next gen sports cars will be the first true competitors to Porsche in forever and I am pretty sure that Lotus have a multi billion dollar bank account these days, so survival is as close to being assured as Porsches is.
I am not sure that I share you optimism.Last year they lost almost £600m and have proven with Emira that they struggle to successfully launch what is really a bread and butter car.
What gives you confidence that they can successfully launch much more complex cars and that their rich parent will keep pumping money into a black hole?
fridaypassion said:
Lotus have made a valiant effort with the Emira but really they will always be a bit player in the market. Lotus have just struggled out it's fault filled rebadged Evora Porsche are about to drop the first true mass market EV sports car range they are years ahead of Lotus in their positioning in the market and development of cars.
Lotus as a brand for enthusiasts is dead their best years well behind them. They are a lifestyle brand apparently but they aren't doing as well on their home turf as they hoped (China) the USA have shut the door to EV imports. It's not looking good for them really.
I'm very very happy to have a couple of their finest cars in my garage cars I truly believe are the very best that have ever been made but it's really very hard to see any sort of long term future for Lotus after the ICE car ban they just don't seem to have a decent product to sell. They really need an EV equivalent of the S1 Elise or even M100 to bring them back to life and sell in big numbers but unless they make a move to build cars outside China they will always struggle against tariffs and quite rightly so (different thread needed!)
Cheer up! The Elise/Exige massively changed Lotus from the Esprit/Excel/M100 and I don't remember anyone crying about that. Lotus as a brand for enthusiasts is dead their best years well behind them. They are a lifestyle brand apparently but they aren't doing as well on their home turf as they hoped (China) the USA have shut the door to EV imports. It's not looking good for them really.
I'm very very happy to have a couple of their finest cars in my garage cars I truly believe are the very best that have ever been made but it's really very hard to see any sort of long term future for Lotus after the ICE car ban they just don't seem to have a decent product to sell. They really need an EV equivalent of the S1 Elise or even M100 to bring them back to life and sell in big numbers but unless they make a move to build cars outside China they will always struggle against tariffs and quite rightly so (different thread needed!)
It's been said a hundred times, i know, but the past is not the future. The world is crawling slowly towards Evs over the next few decades and many manufacturers are getting back into ICE because EVs do not suit everyone. Bans by governments are stupid and will have to be rescinded as a result. Also, the bans are not active in huge parts of the world anyway.
In April of this year it was reported that : "...the Company achieved a revenue of $679 million and a gross profit margin of 15% in 2023. Revenue in the fourth quarter of 2023 was $361 million, representing a 92% quarter-on-quarter increase."
It's a new world for everyone right now but I am glad Lotus is at the front of it, not one of those manufacturers that a small number of us remember with, perhaps, rose-tinted spectacles. Yes, ICE sports cars weighing as much as a lettuce leaf are gone but who is to say some type of ultra light battery couldn't bring such cars back?
Square Leg said:
My local Lotus main dealer have just given up their status - will no longer sell new Lotus as they don’t want the hassle of the electric cars, but will still be a service centre for the old models.
Sounds like they’ve also had enough of the amount of broken Emira littering the workshop for weeks on end.
Did they actually say that or are you simply telling us what you think? Neither of your 'reasons' make any sense. Lotus EVs are simpler, less hassle and are fantastically high quality. Sounds like they’ve also had enough of the amount of broken Emira littering the workshop for weeks on end.
Emira's having warranty work is great revenue for a dealer. I doubt there are many as the internet would suggest either.
Dealerships often swap franchises across all manufacturers.
Frimley111R said:
It's hugely misleading, that figure. Geely are investing massively in manufacturing because they didn't have any before. All the money spent now is part of a multi decade long plan. You don't randomly throw that much money into a company thinking it may or may not work. At that level there is no alternative than to succeed.
Like I say, I like your optimism and really hope they succeed.Edited by skeeterm5 on Sunday 8th September 16:53
skeeterm5 said:
Frimley111R said:
It's hugely misleading, that figure. Geely are investing massively in manufacturing because they didn't have any before. All the money spent now is part of a multi decade long plan. You don't randomly throw that much money into a company thinking it may or may not work. At that level there is no alternative than to succeed.
Like I say, I like your optimism and really hope they succeed.Edited by skeeterm5 on Sunday 8th September 16:53
They are not that enamoured about warranty work either. They charge £100 an hour to customers. They get roughly half that from Lotus for warranty work.
ETA I quoted the incorrect post. My post relates to have central pulled out of their Lotus sales contract
Frimley111R said:
Cheer up! The Elise/Exige massively changed Lotus from the Esprit/Excel/M100 and I don't remember anyone crying about that.
It's been said a hundred times, i know, but the past is not the future. The world is crawling slowly towards Evs over the next few decades and many manufacturers are getting back into ICE because EVs do not suit everyone. Bans by governments are stupid and will have to be rescinded as a result. Also, the bans are not active in huge parts of the world anyway.
In April of this year it was reported that : "...the Company achieved a revenue of $679 million and a gross profit margin of 15% in 2023. Revenue in the fourth quarter of 2023 was $361 million, representing a 92% quarter-on-quarter increase."
It's a new world for everyone right now but I am glad Lotus is at the front of it, not one of those manufacturers that a small number of us remember with, perhaps, rose-tinted spectacles. Yes, ICE sports cars weighing as much as a lettuce leaf are gone but who is to say some type of ultra light battery couldn't bring such cars back?
I do understand what you're saying but Lotus aren't at the front of anything! They cut their production target by 78% Gross profit is nice I wonder what the negative net was? OK they are an R&D operation at the moment but still the company is in a pretty poor position with the the USA doing 100% tariffs has been a potentially mortal blow. The fancy numbers there also were 2023 the first half of 24 they made 4900 cars which means they must be selling almost no EVs what you look at the number of Emira's that are going out. This is a pretty dire situation as far as I can see. It's been said a hundred times, i know, but the past is not the future. The world is crawling slowly towards Evs over the next few decades and many manufacturers are getting back into ICE because EVs do not suit everyone. Bans by governments are stupid and will have to be rescinded as a result. Also, the bans are not active in huge parts of the world anyway.
In April of this year it was reported that : "...the Company achieved a revenue of $679 million and a gross profit margin of 15% in 2023. Revenue in the fourth quarter of 2023 was $361 million, representing a 92% quarter-on-quarter increase."
It's a new world for everyone right now but I am glad Lotus is at the front of it, not one of those manufacturers that a small number of us remember with, perhaps, rose-tinted spectacles. Yes, ICE sports cars weighing as much as a lettuce leaf are gone but who is to say some type of ultra light battery couldn't bring such cars back?
The EV world is coming thats in absolutely no doubt at all. I'm not going into it until we are forced to but in the end we will have to do it. So be it but Lotus are light years behind Porsche their main rival for Sports and Premium SUV cars. Porsche have 718 going live (no pun intended) next year the Macan looks set to steal the crown for first "nice" EV and they have Cayenne close behind it.
Edited by fridaypassion on Sunday 8th September 19:47
Frimley111R said:
Square Leg said:
My local Lotus main dealer have just given up their status - will no longer sell new Lotus as they don’t want the hassle of the electric cars, but will still be a service centre for the old models.
Sounds like they’ve also had enough of the amount of broken Emira littering the workshop for weeks on end.
Did they actually say that or are you simply telling us what you think? Neither of your 'reasons' make any sense. Lotus EVs are simpler, less hassle and are fantastically high quality. Sounds like they’ve also had enough of the amount of broken Emira littering the workshop for weeks on end.
Emira's having warranty work is great revenue for a dealer. I doubt there are many as the internet would suggest either.
Dealerships often swap franchises across all manufacturers.
For them, Lotus are going down a path this particular dealer doesn’t want to go down.
They’ve rebranded and now sell new Morgans, used Lotus, Caterham plus others.
Take a look if you still don’t believe me - scroll to 2024.
https://centralgbltd.com/about-us/
ETA - as much as I love Lotus (I’m now on my 4th Lotus, and I’d rather have one of these than anything Porsche make period) the new models hold no interest for me. I was all set to buy an Emira but it really wasn’t what I wanted in a weekend car.
As an aside, I don’t know how many Eletre they’ve sold, but I personally know two purchasers - one as a company car and one private - who have both sent the cars back and had a refund due to an inordinate amount of issues.
As Ziggy says above, warranty work isn’t all that great for the dealers.
Edited by Square Leg on Sunday 8th September 20:39
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