1st sub £250k 296 GTB?

[Familymad]

These numbers are bonkers. £50k off… or £50k depreciation someone has faced.

Edited by Familymad on Friday 22 November 18:00

[PinkHouse]

Familymad said:

These numbers are bonkers. £50k off… or £50 depreciation someone has faced.

More like £50k less greed for someone

[DeejRC]

The Puro was always a daft choice. The name just didn’t work for what it was and ppl ain’t daft. A/THE V12 is special, when in special cars. An SUV isn’t special. It’s a wheeled white goods for transporting your family about and transporting a family is never special. No bloke aspires to cart his family about.
The price was crazy because the market is stacked with motors doing that job, all with their own USPs, that in that particular market place work just as well as a donkey USP, or even better.
It looked…well, yeah. Exactly. And finally there was no point buying one just to stay on a list for a special because Ferrari would flog you a special anyway, they would just make one extra. Wait a cpl of yrs extra maybe, but a Ferrari special is a Ferrari special and it ain’t never going out of fashion.
The 296 has a different problem. It’s a great product, of that there is no doubt. Its internal market place is stacked though. A decade of middie donkeys gives: 458, 488, F8, SF90 and their fancy pants spin offs. Again ppl ain’t daft, they are looking at the previous offerings, looking at the 296 and thinking er…why should I change? What does it offer me over this lot ?
Again, ppl ain’t daft.
I strongly suspect a similar thing may well happen with the 12C.

[maura]

DeejRC said:

The Puro was always a daft choice. The name just didn’t work for what it was and ppl ain’t daft. A/THE V12 is special, when in special cars. An SUV isn’t special. It’s a wheeled white goods for transporting your family about and transporting a family is never special. No bloke aspires to cart his family about.
The price was crazy because the market is stacked with motors doing that job, all with their own USPs, that in that particular market place work just as well as a donkey USP, or even better.
It looked…well, yeah. Exactly. And finally there was no point buying one just to stay on a list for a special because Ferrari would flog you a special anyway, they would just make one extra. Wait a cpl of yrs extra maybe, but a Ferrari special is a Ferrari special and it ain’t never going out of fashion.
The 296 has a different problem. It’s a great product, of that there is no doubt. Its internal market place is stacked though. A decade of middie donkeys gives: 458, 488, F8, SF90 and their fancy pants spin offs. Again ppl ain’t daft, they are looking at the previous offerings, looking at the 296 and thinking er…why should I change? What does it offer me over this lot ?
Again, ppl ain’t daft.
I strongly suspect a similar thing may well happen with the 12C.

Agreed. People are looking/buying the Ferrari Back Catalogue, the new stuff is daft and way way overpriced to keep the shareholders happy. Takes time but Ferrari have a problem if they can’t hold up their secondary market, the specing the shiny new stuff in their beautiful dealer rooms has already taken a massive hit in the UK dealers due to people realizing they are losing £100k the moment they take delivery of their Hybrid Ferrari or V12 SUV. Purosangue in the low to middle £200’s I see merit, but the new price, batst crazy.. Back Catalogue is the way to go..

[Wills2]

I think this Purasangue shows you were the pricing is/was, sold for 353k plus fees

https://collectingcars.com/for-sale/2024-ferrari-p...

[willy wombat]

Lots of interesting comments about the 296. As I posted earlier, I was tempted to chop in my 458 spider for one but (thankfully) I didn’t. The two things that put me off were the lack of internal space and the lack of luggage space. I’m only 5ft 10ins but when I test drove a 296 I had the seat right back and it was rubbing against the rear of the cockpit and the space in the passenger footwell is significantly restricted, presumably by some sort of electric gubbins. The front boot had much less space than a 458 or similar. While the 296 is an epic thing to drive, I need a bit more flexibility than just having a £250k+ car for track days and back roads.

[ACE997]

W4NTED said:

I agree with everything you said however its SOLD now and thats what he paid for it. If this was a “story” the car would still be “live” hence why I shared the advert link and screenshot :-)

Evidence that the car is sold isn't the same as evidence that the dealer sold it to your mate for £160k. Can you share evidence that this car was sold for £160k? Or tell me the name of the salesperson?

I have been in the market for a 296 GTB recently, including dealing with HR Owen (Paddy and Shawn) and 4 other dealers, no Ferrari dealer is offering me 296s for £160k or anything close to that. I have made offers of £10k off list on 296 GTBs in November 2024 that have been rejected and the cars have later sold. Is it possible that the price you saw being negotiated was net of a part-ex? If 296s were available at £160k I would be getting a lot of calls from dealers (that I have long standing good relationships with, so I know they would call) because I am a buyer above that price.

W4NTED said:

PS - the rest advertised circa £200k have been up for sale for weeks on end. This ones sold ;-)

The ones that are left may have been advertised for weeks but there are others that have sold in the last month that are no longer advertised. I have seen 9 that were advertised sell in the last month, most of those were good spec, low mileage between 200k and 225k. The number of 296 GTBs for sale on Autotrader has oscillated between 54 and 63 over the last month. I even had one dealer leave me a voicemail about a 296 that they had just bought that was sold by the time I called back, before it was advertised.

[W4NTED]

ACE997 said:

W4NTED said:

I agree with everything you said however its SOLD now and thats what he paid for it. If this was a “story” the car would still be “live” hence why I shared the advert link and screenshot :-)

Evidence that the car is sold isn't the same as evidence that the dealer sold it to your mate for £160k. Can you share evidence that this car was sold for £160k? Or tell me the name of the salesperson?

I have been in the market for a 296 GTB recently, including dealing with HR Owen (Paddy and Shawn) and 4 other dealers, no Ferrari dealer is offering me 296s for £160k or anything close to that. I have made offers of £10k off list on 296 GTBs in November 2024 that have been rejected and the cars have later sold. Is it possible that the price you saw being negotiated was net of a part-ex? If 296s were available at £160k I would be getting a lot of calls from dealers (that I have long standing good relationships with, so I know they would call) because I am a buyer above that price.

W4NTED said:

PS - the rest advertised circa £200k have been up for sale for weeks on end. This ones sold ;-)

The ones that are left may have been advertised for weeks but there are others that have sold in the last month that are no longer advertised. I have seen 9 that were advertised sell in the last month, most of those were good spec, low mileage between 200k and 225k. The number of 296 GTBs for sale on Autotrader has oscillated between 54 and 63 over the last month. I even had one dealer leave me a voicemail about a 296 that they had just bought that was sold by the time I called back, before it was advertised.

I’m done with this conversation. I have no need to prove anything to anyone. If you don't believe it that’s entirely fine! The dealers telling you a car was sold is bullstting you and was more like a SOR with the seller deciding he would rather keep the car than lose £100k in s few months of owning it. None are selling! A car coming off Autotrader does NOT mean it sold! Most likely withdrawn.

The fact is NO dealer is buying in 296 stock - go try and sell one! Almost all cars for sale are SOR cars.

Edited by W4NTED on Sunday 24th November 14:57

[ACE997]

W4NTED said:

I’m done with this conversation. I have no need to prove anything to anyone. If you don't believe it that’s entirely fine!

So you can't provide any evidence, even the name of the salesperson involved and you want us to believe you because "your mate" told you? No first hand evidence at all. You weren't party to the price negotiation at all. You now want the conversation to end rather than you getting called out for posting about stuff you have zero first hand info on. Haha, ok but that damages your credibility severely.

W4NTED said:

The dealers telling you a car was sold is bullstting you and was more like a SOR with the seller deciding he would rather keep the car than lose £100k in s few months of owning it. None are selling! A car coming off Autotrader does NOT mean it sold! Most likely withdrawn.

"Most likely" haha, so you're admitting that you don't actually know first hand. The Ferrari dealers are bullstting me telling me a (non SoR) car I wanted to buy is sold? A car that you say is virtually unsellable, why would they do that? Why wouldn't they just sell me another one they have in stock for £160k then? I know which cars are SoR and which aren't because I, unlike you, have actually spoken to the dealers involved. I have bought previous cars from these dealers and they are surprisingly honest about where the market for 296s is with me.

W4NTED said:

The fact is NO dealer is buying in 296 stock - go try and sell one! Almost all cars for sale are SOR cars.

You seem to really want this to be true for some reason but how do you know this "fact"? Which "almost all" dealers did you speak to?

Edited by W4NTED on Sunday 24th November 14:57[/footnote]

[footnote]Edited by ACE997 on Sunday 24th November 15:51

[Calculator]

simon_j said:

Another sub £190k 296 on Autotrader. This time a 2023 car with 950 miles. I wonder what the trade value truly is.

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/2024112165...

This one is now sold I believe

[W4NTED]

ACE997 said:

W4NTED said:

I’m done with this conversation. I have no need to prove anything to anyone. If you don't believe it that’s entirely fine!

So you can't provide any evidence, even the name of the salesperson involved and you want us to believe you because "your mate" told you? No first hand evidence at all. You weren't party to the price negotiation at all. You now want the conversation to end rather than you getting called out for posting about stuff you have zero first hand info on. Haha, ok but that damages your credibility severely.

W4NTED said:

The dealers telling you a car was sold is bullstting you and was more like a SOR with the seller deciding he would rather keep the car than lose £100k in s few months of owning it. None are selling! A car coming off Autotrader does NOT mean it sold! Most likely withdrawn.

"Most likely" haha, so you're admitting that you don't actually know first hand. The Ferrari dealers are bullstting me telling me a (non SoR) car I wanted to buy is sold? A car that you say is virtually unsellable, why would they do that? Why wouldn't they just sell me another one they have in stock for £160k then? I know which cars are SoR and which aren't because I, unlike you, have actually spoken to the dealers involved. I have bought previous cars from these dealers and they are surprisingly honest about where the market for 296s is with me.

W4NTED said:

The fact is NO dealer is buying in 296 stock - go try and sell one! Almost all cars for sale are SOR cars.

You seem to really want this to be true for some reason but how do you know this "fact"? Which "almost all" dealers did you speak to?

Edited by W4NTED on Sunday 24th November 14:57[/footnote]

[footnote]Edited by ACE997 on Sunday 24th November 15:51

schools open tomorrow kid do your home work….

[simon_j]

Calculator said:

simon_j said:

Another sub £190k 296 on Autotrader. This time a 2023 car with 950 miles. I wonder what the trade value truly is.

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/2024112165...

This one is now sold I believe

Maybe it was the £2,500 price cut overnight that did it. Now showing at £187,500. It would be interesting to know what it went for.

[BlackR8]

As per the examples above, with 296's advertised now in the £180's, and that being the advertised price and not sold prices. A £160k 296 GTB doesn't seem that far fetched anymore.

[ACE997]

W4NTED said:

schools open tomorrow kid do your home work….

Haha, I thought you were done? When you can't argue with the facts presented, resort to a weak ad hominem...

PS. I have been a member here for over 14 years, it says so right next to my username.

[garystoybox]

ACE997 said:

Haha, I thought you were done? When you can't argue with the facts presented, resort to a weak ad hominem...

PS. I have been a member here for over 14 years, it says so right next to my username.

To be fair though, you might have joined when you were a 1 year old.
Think this can be put to bed by a simple copy of the sold invoice from the main dealer being uploaded. If I’d bought one for £160k I’d have no issue doing this.

[ACE997]

BlackR8 said:

As per the examples above, with 296's advertised now in the £180's, and that being the advertised price and not sold prices. A £160k 296 GTB doesn't seem that far fetched anymore.

I am hoping that they get there! I am a definitely a buyer at £160k. FWIW, I haven't seen an Approved Ferrari dealer advertise a 296 sub £200k yet.

How much gap do you think there is between advertised and sold prices for the lowest priced examples? My experience is that if the price has been reduced very recently and it is one of the cheapest then the dealer will not budge more than a few £k and they're happy to let you walk away. If you're talking about the higher priced examples then I have seen £25k+ discount offered but that doesn't get you to £160k. Yet!

[kbf1981]

https://collectingcars.com/for-sale/2017-ferrari-4...

Sold at £150k with 14k miles and 2017 - yet people aren't willing to pay £200k for a 296?

I don't buy it, feels like someone trying to talk the market down and get a Christmas deal.

[ACE997]

garystoybox said:

To be fair though, you might have joined when you were a 1 year old.

Sure, it's possible that I joined when I was 1 years old but that would make me an extreme outlier, a bit like someone negotiating £50k off one of the cheapest 296s at a Ferrari dealer. Most people wouldn't believe it without seeing some sort of proof!
Apparently, I was claiming to have not followed the run in procedure on my BMW F10 M5 in this thread when I was around 4/5 years old. I really was a naughty kid... https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...

garystoybox said:

Think this can be put to bed by a simple copy of the sold invoice from the main dealer being uploaded. If I’d bought one for £160k I’d have no issue doing this.

Agreed, or even just the salesperson's name. Then I am gonna call that guy and give him my pocket money for a low mileage, high spec, £160k 296!

Edited by ACE997 on Sunday 24th November 19:53

[MingtheMerciless]

DeejRC said:

The 296 has a different problem. It’s a great product, of that there is no doubt. Its internal market place is stacked though. A decade of middie donkeys gives: 458, 488, F8, SF90 and their fancy pants spin offs. Again ppl ain’t daft, they are looking at the previous offerings, looking at the 296 and thinking er…why should I change? What does it offer me over this lot ?
Again, ppl ain’t daft.
I strongly suspect a similar thing may well happen with the 12C.

Just to give my 2c on this. And why I moved on. I get the point about the 458. It isn't that it suddenly became not good enough. In some ways, it is actually a better car. I do think it is better looking. However, I have had trouble with it, happily dealt with under the very expensive Ferrari extended warranty. I think I would have spent over €100,000 on fixing it without that. So a frankly shocking amount. Also, I had the 458 since 2015. It is never that you have had a car that perfect for too long, but I have done literally everything I wanted to, except a lap or two of the Nurburgring, in that car. I have done a few (not many) decent track days, I have had epic epic hoons. I have watched the leds all go red and upshifted from 6th. Where that happened is not something I want to talk about. I drove it at 9000 rpm all the time. It made my hair stand on end every time it is so exhilarating. I won't say I mastered it, because the truth is the Ferrari engineers created a masterpiece finely tuned for its clients who mostly have less talent than their cars, but I have literally done so so much in this car that I am now ready to move on. It is the car I have owned for longest. A decade with Angelina Jolie if you will.

I looked at the 488 and decided that it was faster, objectively better on track but for me, not as much fun. I looked at the F8 and thought more of the same. I drove the 296 GTS around Fiorano and on road and thought it was kind of as much fun as a 458 - better handling, better brakes, better suspension, much faster without losing the fun and only less "good" in terms of sound but it still sounds great. You have an 8500 redline rather than 9000 but hey I can live with the Piccolo V12.

So its the first time I felt like a move since 2015. Having tried literally everything. The only car that tempted me actually was a GT3. I'd love to have kept both but can only have one, a FWP.

I'm sure it will depreciate but YOLO.

[maura]

ACE997 said:

Haha, I thought you were done? When you can't argue with the facts presented, resort to a weak ad hominem...

PS. I have been a member here for over 14 years, it says so right next to my username.

You don’t need to rise to it. What value on this one, no suspension lifter, Mazda paint job, probably another mate will get this one for 145k, all negotiated over WhatsApp, just how the DP teach the salesmen at Ferrari to sell, teaching all approved by the Factory, and being a Public Quoted Company, just love the terrible story!

https://www.romansinternational.com/used/cars/ferr...