RE: Official: 2022 INEOS Grenadier priced from £49k
Discussion
LooneyTunes said:
300bhp/ton said:
ImDesigner said:
And lots here slated the cost of the new Defender.
Are farmers still queuing up for the Grenadier?
I'm not sure Farmers where ever the entire target market tbh... not enough farms.Are farmers still queuing up for the Grenadier?
That said, I can see this being a perfectly reasonable alternative to a Discovery, Range Rover or even the new Defender on a farm. You'll find a lot of farmers may have a 'farm' work truck, but also something nicer that they also use that needs to be off road and tow capable.
With those prices Ineos aren’t much far adrift of the new Defender in pricing. Probably more expensive to own if you factor in residuals (which will almost certainly be weaker).
We have Defenders on the farm, plus an L405 Range Rover. I can well see under certain circumstances that one of these could easily replace the Range Rover.
300bhp/ton said:
SidewaysSi said:
Just get a Landcruiser. Tried, tested and bombproof.
Also very ugly and slow too. I'll pass.Ugly and slow - ah, at least there are two things the Ineos can compete with the Toyota on.
A.J.M said:
£49k for that… 
So much for it being a £30k 300tdi 110 replacement like the new defender haters were dreaming of.
Isn't it only the Ineos haters and Pretender fanboys touting this. Nobody actually interested in the Grenadier has ever mentioned anything along those lines.So much for it being a £30k 300tdi 110 replacement like the new defender haters were dreaming of.
A.J.M said:
Also massively overpriced compared to D max, Ranger, hilux etc.
Also massively better specced, more powerful and quicker too. But I'll guess you'll continue to ignore logic and common sense in your nonsensical hysterical objections to a vehicle you aren't even interested in.300bhp/ton said:
Not all vehicles are bought new you know.... sometimes it is about price used too vs what is new.
We have Defenders on the farm, plus an L405 Range Rover. I can well see under certain circumstances that one of these could easily replace the Range Rover.
In order to be available used, *someone* has to buy a new one… You’ve already said it’s a bit too much for you earlier in the thread - if everyone thinks it’s expensive, it won’t sell well enough for there to be a used market… Hell, there might not even be a company around to support it in 3-4 years time, depending on the sales figures.We have Defenders on the farm, plus an L405 Range Rover. I can well see under certain circumstances that one of these could easily replace the Range Rover.
thewarlock said:
Aren't you passing on the Ineos too though?
Why are you so keen to defend a car that you're not going to buy?
Only passing on one new as I can't afford one. Doesn't mean I don't like it in general though. And would be interested should I have the money or as a used purchase. In the same way I'd be interested in buying a Bronco, Wrangler, Ranger Raptor or even a new Defender.Why are you so keen to defend a car that you're not going to buy?
Let's face it Caterham build antique designed cars, some of which cost as much or more than the Grenadier. Yet few bash them on here.... despite the fact you get way less product for your money. (I like Caterham too, just using it as an example)
So, I really don't get all the handbag bashing by quite a lot of people on here. It's like continual PMT. When people say unfair or stupid things, I've generally tried to point out that they are either being naive or more often than not, factually wrong.
At the end of the day, I thought this forum was car enthusiasts. But it seems a large population of PH these days are only enthusiastic about trying very hard at being a senile version of Victor Meldrew.
Looks-wise it has a strong resemblance to an original 80's military spec G-Wagon.
Love the fact it's tied into Belstaff (big fan here) and also named after a legendary elite Infantry British Army Regiment (maybe they can get a few donated on trial).
It still looks a bit awkward though? Hopefully the windscreen wipers are better than the original Defender but missing a trick of a heated steering wheel?
Still, I quite like it as a concept and will have to see what they look like in the flesh. The new Defender has been growing on me (I own a heavily modded 2012 110 XS Utility) but the asking price is huge still.
Love the fact it's tied into Belstaff (big fan here) and also named after a legendary elite Infantry British Army Regiment (maybe they can get a few donated on trial).
It still looks a bit awkward though? Hopefully the windscreen wipers are better than the original Defender but missing a trick of a heated steering wheel?
Still, I quite like it as a concept and will have to see what they look like in the flesh. The new Defender has been growing on me (I own a heavily modded 2012 110 XS Utility) but the asking price is huge still.
2xChevrons said:
It's a type approval/safety thing. The gear selector isn't just a handle connected to a lever going into the innards of a mechanical epicyclic gearbox like it was in a old automatic. It's an electronic selector switch which is plugged into all the rest of the car's 'nervous system' and interacts with it in all sort of ways. The car's systems need to know which gear is being 'requested' by the selector, and that is obviously a safety-critical function. BMW and ZF will have worked together to get the selector 'talking' to the transmission and the engine, and then satisfied the various regulatory bodies that the selector won't start spewing errant 'select Drive in Sports Mode' signals if someone spills a bottle of Coke onto it or if it drives past an airport radar or something like that.
For Ineos it's simply not worth the money to develop a whole new selector, and in all likelihood BMW/ZF wouldn't allow anyone to put a new selector on their drivetrain combo.
I agree it looks awful - it doesn't fit the rest of the interior at all (although that looks awful in its own, but different way) and it looks especially stupid next to the very simple and traditional range selector. Another reason why, in an ideal world, the Grenadier would be offered with a manual option.
Thanks for this, I hadn't appreciated that it was more than just a piece of plastic to house the innards - I had assumed you could design something that looks different but doesn't affect the housing or positioning of the buttons and electronics etc without needing to go through regulatory approval. A real shame as the "futuristic" look of the lever looks dated in BMWs themselves, never mind in other cars!For Ineos it's simply not worth the money to develop a whole new selector, and in all likelihood BMW/ZF wouldn't allow anyone to put a new selector on their drivetrain combo.
I agree it looks awful - it doesn't fit the rest of the interior at all (although that looks awful in its own, but different way) and it looks especially stupid next to the very simple and traditional range selector. Another reason why, in an ideal world, the Grenadier would be offered with a manual option.
DanL said:
In order to be available used, *someone* has to buy a new one… You’ve already said it’s a bit too much for you earlier in the thread - if everyone thinks it’s expensive, it won’t sell well enough for there to be a used market… Hell, there might not even be a company around to support it in 3-4 years time, depending on the sales figures.
There are plenty of cars on the road I can't afford.... so I have no fear that people will buy these new. I know I'm not a wealthy person.As for 3-4 years time. So what tbh... firstly I highly doubt it given the backing and money already invested. You don't get this far being a total ignorant idiot. Secondly, lots and lots of small car makers are in similar boats. Hell Lotus, TVR, Caterham and many others could all easily vanish (in fact didn't TVR...) along with many other small scale car makers. I'd rather wish them all the best of luck than being a moaning old fart wishing everyone doom and despair.
F20CN16 said:
Wab1974uk said:
It was designed so you can still use everything while wearing thick gloves. Because some parts of the world are a bit colder than the UK.
Do the heaters not work then?Think people need to look at the old carfection video they did on this. Explained how consulting companies and organisations around the world, who the vehicle was probably aimed at, as to what they would like, given it was a clean sheet design. One of the things was being able use buttons and switches while wearing big gloves.
But what do potential buyers of these things know anyway? Just give them a huge Ipad, and sell it for £30k tops while going bust.
Such negativity on here. Think some need to get themselves on Mumsnet, all the b
hing going on.
300bhp/ton said:
Only passing on one new as I can't afford one. Doesn't mean I don't like it in general though. And would be interested should I have the money or as a used purchase. In the same way I'd be interested in buying a Bronco, Wrangler, Ranger Raptor or even a new Defender.
Let's face it Caterham build antique designed cars, some of which cost as much or more than the Grenadier. Yet few bash them on here.... despite the fact you get way less product for your money. (I like Caterham too, just using it as an example)
So, I really don't get all the handbag bashing by quite a lot of people on here. It's like continual PMT. When people say unfair or stupid things, I've generally tried to point out that they are either being naive or more often than not, factually wrong.
At the end of the day, I thought this forum was car enthusiasts. But it seems a large population of PH these days are only enthusiastic about trying very hard at being a senile version of Victor Meldrew.
And you don't feel even the tiniest bit silly about typing that, when people are passing comment on a car, so you're responding with negative personal comments about those posters?Let's face it Caterham build antique designed cars, some of which cost as much or more than the Grenadier. Yet few bash them on here.... despite the fact you get way less product for your money. (I like Caterham too, just using it as an example)
So, I really don't get all the handbag bashing by quite a lot of people on here. It's like continual PMT. When people say unfair or stupid things, I've generally tried to point out that they are either being naive or more often than not, factually wrong.
At the end of the day, I thought this forum was car enthusiasts. But it seems a large population of PH these days are only enthusiastic about trying very hard at being a senile version of Victor Meldrew.
Also, handbag bashing? PMT? The 80s called, they'd like their mysognistic comments back.
F20CN16 said:
Wab1974uk said:
It was designed so you can still use everything while wearing thick gloves. Because some parts of the world are a bit colder than the UK.
Do the heaters not work then?jason61c said:
Numeric said:
One big question has to be the MPG. I mean of course it will be poor, but are we thinking Hilux 30 ish MPG for the diesel variant or 20.
So I'm a sucker for this kind of thing, but have always stopped my Hilux itch when confronted by a higher than normal mileage and the cost of fuel. OK for companies that offset tax, but if as some say it will be the hunter welly brigade in the UK going for these - well huge fuel consumption may be off putting? While range in more out of the way places on the planet may also be an issue I guess?
Maybe i live in the real world, I don't think the figures, on the new way of testing and reporting figures are too bad.So I'm a sucker for this kind of thing, but have always stopped my Hilux itch when confronted by a higher than normal mileage and the cost of fuel. OK for companies that offset tax, but if as some say it will be the hunter welly brigade in the UK going for these - well huge fuel consumption may be off putting? While range in more out of the way places on the planet may also be an issue I guess?
It looks like 30mpg+ on a run, given most defenders struggle to do mid 20's, a hilux averages about 27mpg in mixed use, its not out there.
JLR and reliability yes yes (worst thing about owning a JLR product is someone hillariously saying "has it broken down yet")... mine hasn't put a foot wrong, and do we have data on the new Defender yet to conclude anything? JLR figures generally shocking, yes, but in that new factory beyond the grumbles you'd expect from some first-out-of-the blocks new cars, haven't heard anything too terrifying...
These guys however are starting from zero, and i don't buy the "it's so simple" argument so much either - that's still a modern, complex powertrain that needs to be packaged, and a whole parts supply and service network to build from scratch. McLaren showed that isn't very easy regardless of how smart your people are...
Don't wish any ill of this thing, but just don't see where the sales are coming from....
thewarlock said:
And you don't feel even the tiniest bit silly about typing that, when people are passing comment on a car, so you're responding with negative personal comments about those posters?
Plenty of personal comments come my way too. And have you actually read some of the comments? I'm sure if it wasn't for hiding behind keyboards, most of those people would not say the same things in person.When you look at the price of a G Wagen and then look how well the Ford Bronco is selling, this will sell - especially to companies who can hide the purchase price in their overheads, etc, especially as they get seen around/proven and the range expands. Rather impressed with the sales brochure/attention to detail/available options.
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