how much hp is to much in a westfield
Discussion
mnrvortxf20c said:
was the r500 not faster than almost all the supercars on the tg test track. that would indicate to me,that it can get power down,it does handle well,brakes well due to its light weight.
not totally sure on this but think its 0-62 time is about 3 seconds. you just dont need a faster car than that.
The R500 is ceratinly a very quick car, by the standards of road legal cars (though it's an also-ran if you compare it to more modern track technology).not totally sure on this but think its 0-62 time is about 3 seconds. you just dont need a faster car than that.
The point is that an R500 is barely quicker round a track than an R300 or R400, and the Levante (which has more than twice the R500's power) is in turn barely quicker than the R500.
You can throw as much horsepower as you want at a 'Seven', but at much above 300bhp/tonne, it makes negligible difference to lap times or 0-60 times, 'cos you've reached the (current) limit of what the shcssis can deliver.
With top-end acceleration, it helps overocme the barn door aerodynamics, but that's still a very crude solution in engineering terms: it would be much more effective and efficient to use a lower-powered engine and spend your time and money cloting it in a more aerodynamically efficient bodyshell.
There's no law against it, if that's what floats your boat, but it's bad engineering and as such - speaking personally - it makes my skin crawl.
the r500 is a road car though,so you cant compare it to track day cars. its like ssaying radicals arte useless because a F1 car is quicker.
how can something that cost a fraction of a modern day supercar,but easily out performs them on track be bad engineering? i totally understand that a 7 isnt the most up to date of cars and that aerodynamically they are not great,but i reckon my car will easily outperform most of the exotic machinery around on the uk roads these days.and for a lot less cost
how can something that cost a fraction of a modern day supercar,but easily out performs them on track be bad engineering? i totally understand that a 7 isnt the most up to date of cars and that aerodynamically they are not great,but i reckon my car will easily outperform most of the exotic machinery around on the uk roads these days.and for a lot less cost
mnrvortxf20c said:
the r500 is a road car though,so you cant compare it to track day cars...
The R500 treads the line between track and road cars, and (IMO) fails to succeed at either.I've driven a K-Series R500 on the road, and I found it neither a very pleasant experience, nor able to make such brisk progress as the better balanced and more predictable R300.
And on the track, as previously stated, it's simply never going to compete with more modern 'Clubmans' sports racers, never mind single seaters, purely due to limitations of the basic design.
Lest you think I'm picking on the R500 in particular, my own FW400 is the same - too much of a track car (and too high a power:weight ratio to fully exploit) for the road, but never going to cut it as a serious track car due to limitations of weight distribution and aerodynamics. Mine is running about 175bhp at the moment, and I have no desire to go back to a 200bhp+ VHPD spec engine, and I've softened off the suspension to maximise traction and predictability, but then I use it almost exclusively for road use. One of the other two left in this country is runnng an R500-spec+ K-series, but the last contact I had with it, it was being trailered to and from the track, with negligible road use.
Sam_68 said:
One of the other two left in this country is runnng an R500-spec+ K-series, but the last contact I had with it, it was being trailered to and from the track, with negligible road use.
So what if it gets trailered? More 7-type cars seems to get trailered to/from track days for convenience (set-up fully before you go, take tools in tow car) or for peace of mind (it's a PITA trying to get cars recovered if you bend them and don't have your own trailer).
I don't think it's any indication of it being suitable or unsuitable for road use.
I would however agree that the higher powered cars of this type can be difficult to drive to their full potential on the road. Not due to any sort of unpredictability, but more due to the need to retain ones driving license.
Sam_68 said:
I can say that in this instance, the car was trailered because the owner did not find it suitable for road use and had chosen not to use it in this role.
He thought I was quite mad, in fact, to be using mine regularly on the road.
Fair enough. But it's all down to personal choice. Suspect there are more than a few on here who would be quite happy using something like that on the road.He thought I was quite mad, in fact, to be using mine regularly on the road.
LooneyTunes said:
Suspect there are more than a few on here who would be quite happy using something like that on the road.
There probably are, and I'm one of them. I can tell you from personal experience, though, that if you try to drive something very high-powered and very lightweight like an R500 or FW400 on the road you will either:
a) Find yourself travelling much slower than even relatively mundane (but less over-powered and stiffly suspended) machinery like Lotus Elises on most typical country road surfaces, or;
b) Wind up dead, very quickly.
rhinochopig said:
The other factor is power delivery. Low torque high bhp na engines, with good linear deliery, suit the character of the car - more so than turbo orv8 motors IMO.
I had about 400/tonne in my westy and it was still usable on the road - although it was a little too frenetic at times.
I'd say 300 is the sweet spot for a fun benign road car.
Spot on. Totally agree with what you are saying about power delivery and type of engine.... and also the amount of power I had about 400/tonne in my westy and it was still usable on the road - although it was a little too frenetic at times.
I'd say 300 is the sweet spot for a fun benign road car.
The other thing about mental power on the road is that you cant really rev the cars engine and extend the car through the gears. Its why I find my old Boxster more fun to blast around the lanes than my 996turbo. You just feel like you are working the car harder and can hear the engine working.. without hitting unsafe speeds. I find that more fun.
I do love my Turbo'd 500bhp Westfield... but only because its nuts and scary and thrilling and a hooligan mobile. Thats what I wanted it for. Something totally different to my other cars.
as Rhinochopig said... its the wrong type of engine for the car and its overpowered for 99% of situations!
Something like a 240bhp S2000 honda engine in a Westy would be far better for most people. More rewarding and 'pure' and suited to the car
it is quite tall, and i think its the only engine honda make that turns the correct way for rwd. if funds allowed i would dry sump but for road use there is no need.ground clearence is ok and bonnet would fit with no scoop. i opted for a carbon scooop,but just for cooling/looks really. will take more pics when weather picks up
IIRC either Blink or Fluke motorsport built an S2000 powered westy. It went very well, but again IIRC, the issues they had were the height of the engine.
I'd love to do an S2000 lump (possibly supercharged) into a Mk1 Essie shell. Would make a lovely reliable weekend toy with a bit more practicality than a westfield.
I'd love to do an S2000 lump (possibly supercharged) into a Mk1 Essie shell. Would make a lovely reliable weekend toy with a bit more practicality than a westfield.
160-170BHP is just about usuable in all weather if fitted with a LSD, any more and the rear has traction problems on damp or wet roads, and gives the driver doubts as to what is gonna happen next, This is NOT good in such a fast car like a 7 driven on twisty roads. Road surfaces can change mid corner and suddenly you gonna find yourself visiting the scenery, through no fault of yourself. Much better to have less power which you can have fun using in full most of the time.
I've owned a 7 since 1972 - my current car has a 155BHP 2litre Zetec which I'm more than happy with
I've owned a 7 since 1972 - my current car has a 155BHP 2litre Zetec which I'm more than happy with
Edited by S47 on Sunday 15th January 13:57
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