Kit car industry and how to revive interest and sales

Kit car industry and how to revive interest and sales

Author
Discussion

smash

2,062 posts

227 months

Thursday 19th April 2012
quotequote all
Some interesting support for rebodies and as I've said I agree it's the only future market that has potentially large growth. The MEVX5 shows rebodies can be done to a price point but they also demonstrates the design factor issue I mentioned before. With the greatest respect it's only OK to look at IMHO and is very awkward from some angles - not ugly just awkward (the almost triangular bonnet is best not talked about). Simpson Design have shown the level of quality and beauty an MX5 rebody can achieve but at a sadly unrealistic price.

The manufacturer skillsets required for a rebody versus a traditional body/chassis kit are, I believe, quite different. It's great to be aspirational - that NSX concept looks fantastic - but there's a need to keep an eye on what's actually feesible as well although arguably the Italian replica rebody crowd have achieved some quite amazing, if slightly mechanically questionable (spaaaaaaaaaaaaaacers!) things.

MR2s as base cars I think too long in the tooth, MX5 not enough grunt and too pricey for newer models (it's a desirable car afterall) - convertibles give the greatest freedom as there's no roofline to have to match but most drop tops these days have motor driven metal tops so the supply will eventually dry up I guess confused

Edited by smash on Thursday 19th April 19:35

MG CHRIS

9,077 posts

166 months

Thursday 19th April 2012
quotequote all
The problem with getting youngsters into kit cars of which im one of them is that to run 1 car at 19 is hard enough so with most kits being a 2nd vehicle to use on the weekend it makes it almost impossible.

Im running a quantum coupe as a daily car cost very little to buy and the cheapest car i could insure at £735 it quick enough for me also very rare so will not see another one around where i live, its a fiesta with a different body sort of and very useable.

Ive also just started my next project an mev exocet for use as a track day toy its something ive always wanted to do and the moment living with my parents have very little outgoings its cheaper than almost all new kits out there and looks a straight forward build. It all came from making things out of knex, lego, mechano etc when i was younger.

What is needed is cheaper to build and simple to build kits like the exocet and the useable day to day kit cars like my quantum and things like the gtm libra.



Steffan

10,362 posts

227 months

Thursday 19th April 2012
quotequote all
MG CHRIS said:
The problem with getting youngsters into kit cars of which im one of them is that to run 1 car at 19 is hard enough so with most kits being a 2nd vehicle to use on the weekend it makes it almost impossible.

Im running a quantum coupe as a daily car cost very little to buy and the cheapest car i could insure at £735 it quick enough for me also very rare so will not see another one around where i live, its a fiesta with a different body sort of and very useable.

Ive also just started my next project an mev exocet for use as a track day toy its something ive always wanted to do and the moment living with my parents have very little outgoings its cheaper than almost all new kits out there and looks a straight forward build. It all came from making things out of knex, lego, mechano etc when i was younger.

What is needed is cheaper to build and simple to build kits like the exocet and the useable day to day kit cars like my quantum and things like the gtm libra.
Interesting choice in cars. ]

I do understand the insurance problem it must be horrendous trying to get insurance on anything when you are young. With my age and profession I suit insurance companies and Kit cars cost me virtually nothing to insure I can insure seven for less than £900.

The MEV Exocet is a real hoot of a car great choice keep the build up Stuart Mills is extremely good at designing buildable cars. You chose wisely.

You will learn a good deal in building the car and feel a real sense of achievement when the car is finished. Take plenty of photos I did not and yes, I regret it regularly.

Good luck with the build.

MG CHRIS

9,077 posts

166 months

Thursday 19th April 2012
quotequote all
Steffan said:
MG CHRIS said:
The problem with getting youngsters into kit cars of which im one of them is that to run 1 car at 19 is hard enough so with most kits being a 2nd vehicle to use on the weekend it makes it almost impossible.

Im running a quantum coupe as a daily car cost very little to buy and the cheapest car i could insure at £735 it quick enough for me also very rare so will not see another one around where i live, its a fiesta with a different body sort of and very useable.

Ive also just started my next project an mev exocet for use as a track day toy its something ive always wanted to do and the moment living with my parents have very little outgoings its cheaper than almost all new kits out there and looks a straight forward build. It all came from making things out of knex, lego, mechano etc when i was younger.

What is needed is cheaper to build and simple to build kits like the exocet and the useable day to day kit cars like my quantum and things like the gtm libra.
Interesting choice in cars. ]

I do understand the insurance problem it must be horrendous trying to get insurance on anything when you are young. With my age and profession I suit insurance companies and Kit cars cost me virtually nothing to insure I can insure seven for less than £900.

The MEV Exocet is a real hoot of a car great choice keep the build up Stuart Mills is extremely good at designing buildable cars. You chose wisely.

You will learn a good deal in building the car and feel a real sense of achievement when the car is finished. Take plenty of photos I did not and yes, I regret it regularly.

Good luck with the build.
Thanks already made some progress mx5 is completly stripped down to leave the ppf will start on the weekend on stripping down the rest. Will be visiting stonneligh to order the kit. Before the kit cars my father and i restored a 1979 mgb gt when i was 16 to get me into mechanics and into the trade ive just sold it to fund the exocet so can't wait to get going.

Yes insurance is the real problem i can buy so many quick cars for very little money but getting anything with insurance under £1500 is very hard.

matlee

777 posts

150 months

Friday 20th April 2012
quotequote all
Do whatever MEV are doing! Seriously though, i joined the Exocet scene back in late August and every week there is a new face popping up on the forum introducing themselves and their new build. The Exocet at the moment imo has no competition when it comes to cost and ease of build and this is clearly its winning factor. I knew i always wanted to build a kit car but never found one that could be done within the time i had spare or within my budget until i stumbled across the exocet.
I may be stating the obvious here but I feel the scene needs more cars that can be built easily, below £5k and is not a 7 clone, i actually love the 7 shape but for many younger builders its simply not 'cool' enough.

fuoriserie

4,560 posts

268 months

Friday 20th April 2012
quotequote all
smash said:
. The main problem with rebodies is as I see it, they really highlight the design skills (or lack of) of the manufacturer. Splashing a Murci or F430 is one thing but producing something that when fited to the car doesn't look worse than the donor in the first place is entirely another!

.
I totally agree with you and also think that some manufacturers will be able to make the change and move into the rebody niche but others will not, due to lack of design skills(required if you want to create a sellable product) or other factors like ( no interest in rebodies or have another niche to cater ).

Just to show the variety of styling options the classic Mazda Mx5 is capable of accepting, a few images I've found on the net...















Edited by fuoriserie on Friday 20th April 10:06

fuoriserie

4,560 posts

268 months

Friday 20th April 2012
quotequote all
Interesting is this Mazda rebody that had a Mustang inspired body....the proposrtions are slightly odd due to the shorter wheelbase of the MX5, but the images show the build of the new bodywork:


















Edited by fuoriserie on Friday 20th April 10:05

SystemParanoia

14,343 posts

197 months

Friday 20th April 2012
quotequote all
lol @ the viper, but the green one looks kinda cool smile

fuoriserie

4,560 posts

268 months

Friday 20th April 2012
quotequote all
Look to this site, for some very nice Mazda Mx5 rebodies:

http://www.simpsondesign.net/italia2_preload.html


A few more, tris time coupes:







Edited by fuoriserie on Friday 20th April 11:02

Stuart Mills

1,208 posts

205 months

Friday 20th April 2012
quotequote all
Good to have you back Italo. Love the pics, all retro though, shame.
Not a good idea to cut any off the MX5 body and expect not to require IVA testing. That Mustang has had major cutting and would need an IVA if sold in the UK.

cymtriks

4,560 posts

244 months

Saturday 21st April 2012
quotequote all
First you need to consider what you want to get from increased sales; increased profit from volume or from from each car you sell.

These are not the same thing.

Selling more volume means appealing to more people. There are two ways to do this:

Concentrate on price, advertising and customer service.

It may also mean dealing with the issues that put people off traditional kits. The car would need to be designed to have wider appeal by a combination of attention to ease of build, styling and practicality.

These are harder to do, the first involves spending more and cutting profit margins, the second paying more attention to development which will take time and money to do, but if you want to get to where TVR or Lotus used to be this is the only way to do it.

An alternative to appealing to more people is to sell kits with bigger profit margins. Take a look at the Barchetta 595 or Byers CR90. No doors means simpler bodywork and simpler build but you could still sell the kit for the same ammount. Then there is the chassis. How about pre-cut and bonded panels? I have heard that the later Lister cars used one panel of pre cut and drilled composite to make a floor that formed the chassis on its own.

1point7bar

1,305 posts

147 months

Saturday 21st April 2012
quotequote all
Markets are subject to social norms. IMO kitcar builders are already outside this box.
AFAIK the industry lacks any political muscle (lobbyists) and will thus be unable to engender a commercial environment conducive to mass market penetration (imagine the results of road tax exemptions!).
The self-build of a high value consumer product is unfortunately at odds with the mainstream 'globalisation' dogma (division of labour increases productivity), but it is likely responsible to nurture such a source of engineering skills development.

KDIcarmad

Original Poster:

703 posts

150 months

Sunday 22nd April 2012
quotequote all
qdos said:
KDIcarmad said:
I remember a Midas Gold convertable on the front cover of Car. Is this the last time a kit car had that honour?
Well how about with the likes of Gumpert, Aerial Konigsegg http://www.theestd.com/automotive/
and yes the front cover of TopGear magazine though yes it was in India but a cracking write up all the same....





Oh and on National Television over there too.

I meant a photo on the cover as lead story. Still could india become a big market for Kit Car?

Pat H

8,056 posts

255 months

Sunday 22nd April 2012
quotequote all
fuoriserie said:

That's very nice.

I wonder just how different the proportions really are from the original?

Normally I have a pretty jaded opinion of replicas, but the original is so utterly rare (only one, I believe) that this one deserves a second look.


v8will

3,301 posts

195 months

Sunday 22nd April 2012
quotequote all
Can't remember if I've commented on this thread before.

I really dislike rebody kits and quite a few of the replicas don't float my boat either although I do have time for some of the Cobra style kits and the Hawk Stratos but that means £££s

Single donor vehicle kits and a lowish price point are the way forward. I wasn't overly fussed with the design of some of the MEV vehicles to begin with but seeing what can be done with the base kits via a few build threads and the simplicity of build has sparked my interest again.

The MX-5 as a donor is a good thing. Plenty of cars about, sorted handling out of the box and a mountain of tuning options. At the very least the sweet little gearbox will feel more fitting in a kit car.

I'm not a designer so cannot advise in that direction but I would like to see more 'fun' cars, possibly easily built beach buggy type vehicles, 3 wheelers like the Morgan and more performance orientated Exo skeleton cars like the Ariel (incidentally the only Exo car I instantly loved the styling of)

I would like to view myself as a very possible kit buyer. Late 20's with a young family wanting something 'special' but concerned that the finished product and expenditure won't satisfy me like a 2nd hand M3, Monaro etc would (basically sub 10K complete) but also knowing that an instant gratification buy just like a 2nd hand M3 won't give me the satisfaction of the build process.

Mr Mills, I know you read and contribute to this thread so I must say that what you are doing within the kit industry is pretty unique especially in these tough times. Refine the Exocet design a little and I think more would be very interested. Just one thing I would like to clarify. Some of your models have moved to the RTR website, have they bought the designs under license from you etc?

Stuart Mills

1,208 posts

205 months

Sunday 22nd April 2012
quotequote all
Hi Will. There are always ideas in my head, so watch this space! You never know I may build something to your taste one day, it will not be a replica. Road Track Race Ltd is a completely separate company with different directors to Mills Extreme Vehicles Ltd. RTR have thier own manufacturing facilities and make MEV products under licence. MEV Ltd manufacture MX5 based kits. RTR do Ford based kits and BEC's and a BET!

dmulally

6,180 posts

179 months

Monday 23rd April 2012
quotequote all
Pat H said:
fuoriserie said:

That's very nice.

I wonder just how different the proportions really are from the original?

Normally I have a pretty jaded opinion of replicas, but the original is so utterly rare (only one, I believe) that this one deserves a second look.

wow! That is jaw dropping! I may have to google hunt that one down.

dmulally

6,180 posts

179 months

Monday 23rd April 2012
quotequote all


Drool drool drool...

smash

2,062 posts

227 months

Monday 23rd April 2012
quotequote all
IIRC it's a complete one off built in Japan by an enthusiast and no, the dimensions are quite a way off although it looks good on it's own and realistically when would you come up against a a real one to blow your cover!

fuoriserie

4,560 posts

268 months

Monday 23rd April 2012
quotequote all
Images of the Hiroshi Mazda Mx5:

http://www.2000gt.net/Replicas/Hiroshi/Hiroshi.php








Edited by fuoriserie on Monday 23 April 08:22