Is there a Market for a Retro Kit Car ?
Discussion
finishing touch said:
Steffan said:
finishing touch said:
One could argue that the cost of a trailer is about the same as the IVA .
I have also read advice to people selling an incomplete car that it would be worth twice as much with an IVA .
Paul G
( with recently IVA'd car)
The DVLA And VOSA are on a mission to generate business for the IVA earners. Personally I am doubtful that IVA can be avoided unless an aready registered kit car is used as the base. Even then with serious modifications IVA may be required. I cannot see the Mini subframes as adequate to satisfy the bureaucrats. Fact of life with kit car registration IMO.I have also read advice to people selling an incomplete car that it would be worth twice as much with an IVA .
Paul G
( with recently IVA'd car)
road, hence no need for IVA.
I suggested that if you have an off the road car you must also factor in the cost of a trailer and tow bar on your daily driver to get to such events.
Personally I didn't find the IVA a huge problem, and that's with a scratch built flatpack, i..e. 2x1 sheets of ally & 7m lengths of box.
The biggest hassle was the distance from home to IVA test centre. North Essex to Norwich, twice.
Cheers
Paul G
I entirely agree with the list of desirable kit cars posted on here, the Ginetta G15 and G 16 kit cars are definitely classic cars nowadays. As indeed are the Unipower, Cox GTM and so on. Best of luck to the OP in his efforts but again as you suggest the McCoy has not as yet reached those heights of interest. Maybe it will, but I am somewhat doubtful.
Have you got the moulds for the "original" car in your pic ? It evolved into the Wynes McCoy with several add ons
I know Wynes tried hard to sell cars but didn't do very well
If you have the door moulds you might make some money as they are the same as the clan crusader and I know of 2 MaCoys that have been scrapped just for the doors
Glad you have been in contact with Arthur and he is still hanging in there,the grp layup is the most important part of the car
Well remember Arthur around Wymondham with the Yellow estate and Kieth lane in his Minus estate
Guy that made many of the grp shells is still round here as well
I know Wynes tried hard to sell cars but didn't do very well
If you have the door moulds you might make some money as they are the same as the clan crusader and I know of 2 MaCoys that have been scrapped just for the doors
Glad you have been in contact with Arthur and he is still hanging in there,the grp layup is the most important part of the car
Well remember Arthur around Wymondham with the Yellow estate and Kieth lane in his Minus estate
Guy that made many of the grp shells is still round here as well
f1rob said:
Have you got the moulds for the "original" car in your pic ? It evolved into the Wynes McCoy with several add ons
I know Wynes tried hard to sell cars but didn't do very well
If you have the door moulds you might make some money as they are the same as the clan crusader and I know of 2 MaCoys that have been scrapped just for the doors
Glad you have been in contact with Arthur and he is still hanging in there,the grp layup is the most important part of the car
Well remember Arthur around Wymondham with the Yellow estate and Kieth lane in his Minus estate
Guy that made many of the grp shells is still round here as well
PM sentI know Wynes tried hard to sell cars but didn't do very well
If you have the door moulds you might make some money as they are the same as the clan crusader and I know of 2 MaCoys that have been scrapped just for the doors
Glad you have been in contact with Arthur and he is still hanging in there,the grp layup is the most important part of the car
Well remember Arthur around Wymondham with the Yellow estate and Kieth lane in his Minus estate
Guy that made many of the grp shells is still round here as well
Steffan said:
I entirely agree with the list of desirable kit cars posted on here, the Ginetta G15 and G 16 kit cars are definitely classic cars nowadays.
I remember when Ginetta were still in Witham, seeing all the old moulds in their back yard - I'm sure some are being used under the Dare banner, but wonder if they still have them all?Sell the project on.
Honestly this kit has zero market potential.
The styling was never pretty and the last round of styling mods made it worse. The donors are extinct (almost).
Just look at the Ginetta G15, Cox GTM, The GP Spyder, the achingly pretty Beatie racing cars, the Sylva J15, then look at that McCoy kit and ask yourself... "why?".
There are a couple of stylists on here, Seansverge and fuoriserie, perhaps they could draw something along the lines of a G15 / Alpine A108 with space for rear mounted bike engine and (please) a removable roof panel.
Even then, and I'm genuinely sorry to tell you this, kits just don't sell like they used to. When kits were more popular people grew up thinking that you made stuff and then you maintained it. There were a lot of people about who did regular car maintenance. I actually have some old 50's magazines that describe how to make allsorts of things from hobby kilns to kitchen mixers (yes really, there was enough demand to actually publish plans for kitchen mixers to build in your shed). People were less interested in brands. Being technical was cool, the space race was happening, Concord was taking off and we were all going to holiday on space stations in the year 2000. A society like that could support a few kit car companies, it even allowed a few to grow and become TVR, Marcos and Lotus.
Today the world just isn't like that. Nearly everyone thinks that everything comes ready made, works perfectly and either you get someone else to fix it or you chuck it away. Eighty five percent of BMW customers do not know (and presumable even more don't care) that their cars are RWD. Think about all the millions of pounds of advertising behind that brand and think about that level of technical ignorance. Just last week someone walked into a custom cycle shop (I know a keen cyclist at work who knows the shop well)complaining that his 1200 plus quid bicycle was broken and demanded a replacement. It had a puncture. Being technical is not cool. A society like this does not value making things or understanding how things work and can only support a few kitcar makers. Add in the modern obsession with brands and even this reduced number of kits will struggle if they are not replicas of something that is a big brand.
So even a very pretty car along the lines that I described above would be chasing a handful of customers a year.
Honestly this kit has zero market potential.
The styling was never pretty and the last round of styling mods made it worse. The donors are extinct (almost).
Just look at the Ginetta G15, Cox GTM, The GP Spyder, the achingly pretty Beatie racing cars, the Sylva J15, then look at that McCoy kit and ask yourself... "why?".
There are a couple of stylists on here, Seansverge and fuoriserie, perhaps they could draw something along the lines of a G15 / Alpine A108 with space for rear mounted bike engine and (please) a removable roof panel.
Even then, and I'm genuinely sorry to tell you this, kits just don't sell like they used to. When kits were more popular people grew up thinking that you made stuff and then you maintained it. There were a lot of people about who did regular car maintenance. I actually have some old 50's magazines that describe how to make allsorts of things from hobby kilns to kitchen mixers (yes really, there was enough demand to actually publish plans for kitchen mixers to build in your shed). People were less interested in brands. Being technical was cool, the space race was happening, Concord was taking off and we were all going to holiday on space stations in the year 2000. A society like that could support a few kit car companies, it even allowed a few to grow and become TVR, Marcos and Lotus.
Today the world just isn't like that. Nearly everyone thinks that everything comes ready made, works perfectly and either you get someone else to fix it or you chuck it away. Eighty five percent of BMW customers do not know (and presumable even more don't care) that their cars are RWD. Think about all the millions of pounds of advertising behind that brand and think about that level of technical ignorance. Just last week someone walked into a custom cycle shop (I know a keen cyclist at work who knows the shop well)complaining that his 1200 plus quid bicycle was broken and demanded a replacement. It had a puncture. Being technical is not cool. A society like this does not value making things or understanding how things work and can only support a few kitcar makers. Add in the modern obsession with brands and even this reduced number of kits will struggle if they are not replicas of something that is a big brand.
So even a very pretty car along the lines that I described above would be chasing a handful of customers a year.
cymtriks said:
Sell the project on.
Honestly this kit has zero market potential.
The styling was never pretty and the last round of styling mods made it worse. The donors are extinct (almost).
Just look at the Ginetta G15, Cox GTM, The GP Spyder, the achingly pretty Beatie racing cars, the Sylva J15, then look at that McCoy kit and ask yourself... "why?".
There are a couple of stylists on here, Seansverge and fuoriserie, perhaps they could draw something along the lines of a G15 / Alpine A108 with space for rear mounted bike engine and (please) a removable roof panel.
Even then, and I'm genuinely sorry to tell you this, kits just don't sell like they used to. When kits were more popular people grew up thinking that you made stuff and then you maintained it. There were a lot of people about who did regular car maintenance. I actually have some old 50's magazines that describe how to make allsorts of things from hobby kilns to kitchen mixers (yes really, there was enough demand to actually publish plans for kitchen mixers to build in your shed). People were less interested in brands. Being technical was cool, the space race was happening, Concord was taking off and we were all going to holiday on space stations in the year 2000. A society like that could support a few kit car companies, it even allowed a few to grow and become TVR, Marcos and Lotus.
Today the world just isn't like that. Nearly everyone thinks that everything comes ready made, works perfectly and either you get someone else to fix it or you chuck it away. Eighty five percent of BMW customers do not know (and presumable even more don't care) that their cars are RWD. Think about all the millions of pounds of advertising behind that brand and think about that level of technical ignorance. Just last week someone walked into a custom cycle shop (I know a keen cyclist at work who knows the shop well)complaining that his 1200 plus quid bicycle was broken and demanded a replacement. It had a puncture. Being technical is not cool. A society like this does not value making things or understanding how things work and can only support a few kitcar makers. Add in the modern obsession with brands and even this reduced number of kits will struggle if they are not replicas of something that is a big brand.
So even a very pretty car along the lines that I described above would be chasing a handful of customers a year.
Much as I would like life to be different this post is an excellent, reasoned , assessment of the reality of such projects.. Honestly this kit has zero market potential.
The styling was never pretty and the last round of styling mods made it worse. The donors are extinct (almost).
Just look at the Ginetta G15, Cox GTM, The GP Spyder, the achingly pretty Beatie racing cars, the Sylva J15, then look at that McCoy kit and ask yourself... "why?".
There are a couple of stylists on here, Seansverge and fuoriserie, perhaps they could draw something along the lines of a G15 / Alpine A108 with space for rear mounted bike engine and (please) a removable roof panel.
Even then, and I'm genuinely sorry to tell you this, kits just don't sell like they used to. When kits were more popular people grew up thinking that you made stuff and then you maintained it. There were a lot of people about who did regular car maintenance. I actually have some old 50's magazines that describe how to make allsorts of things from hobby kilns to kitchen mixers (yes really, there was enough demand to actually publish plans for kitchen mixers to build in your shed). People were less interested in brands. Being technical was cool, the space race was happening, Concord was taking off and we were all going to holiday on space stations in the year 2000. A society like that could support a few kit car companies, it even allowed a few to grow and become TVR, Marcos and Lotus.
Today the world just isn't like that. Nearly everyone thinks that everything comes ready made, works perfectly and either you get someone else to fix it or you chuck it away. Eighty five percent of BMW customers do not know (and presumable even more don't care) that their cars are RWD. Think about all the millions of pounds of advertising behind that brand and think about that level of technical ignorance. Just last week someone walked into a custom cycle shop (I know a keen cyclist at work who knows the shop well)complaining that his 1200 plus quid bicycle was broken and demanded a replacement. It had a puncture. Being technical is not cool. A society like this does not value making things or understanding how things work and can only support a few kitcar makers. Add in the modern obsession with brands and even this reduced number of kits will struggle if they are not replicas of something that is a big brand.
So even a very pretty car along the lines that I described above would be chasing a handful of customers a year.
Excellent post. Times have changed and being very old I can remember, with great pleasure, those booming kit car markets of years ago. I wish the OP every success with hs venture. However I do agree with cymtricks that this is likely to be a very weak market. Kit cars, sadly are not the simple build they were pre IVA with all the on costs. Equally I think the interest in undertaking such lengthy projects has gone. Times change and much as I would like this not to be the case, I think it has.
Steffan said:
cymtriks said:
Sell the project on.
Honestly this kit has zero market potential.
The styling was never pretty and the last round of styling mods made it worse. The donors are extinct (almost).
Just look at the Ginetta G15, Cox GTM, The GP Spyder, the achingly pretty Beatie racing cars, the Sylva J15, then look at that McCoy kit and ask yourself... "why?".
There are a couple of stylists on here, Seansverge and fuoriserie, perhaps they could draw something along the lines of a G15 / Alpine A108 with space for rear mounted bike engine and (please) a removable roof panel.
Even then, and I'm genuinely sorry to tell you this, kits just don't sell like they used to. When kits were more popular people grew up thinking that you made stuff and then you maintained it. There were a lot of people about who did regular car maintenance. I actually have some old 50's magazines that describe how to make allsorts of things from hobby kilns to kitchen mixers (yes really, there was enough demand to actually publish plans for kitchen mixers to build in your shed). People were less interested in brands. Being technical was cool, the space race was happening, Concord was taking off and we were all going to holiday on space stations in the year 2000. A society like that could support a few kit car companies, it even allowed a few to grow and become TVR, Marcos and Lotus.
Today the world just isn't like that. Nearly everyone thinks that everything comes ready made, works perfectly and either you get someone else to fix it or you chuck it away. Eighty five percent of BMW customers do not know (and presumable even more don't care) that their cars are RWD. Think about all the millions of pounds of advertising behind that brand and think about that level of technical ignorance. Just last week someone walked into a custom cycle shop (I know a keen cyclist at work who knows the shop well)complaining that his 1200 plus quid bicycle was broken and demanded a replacement. It had a puncture. Being technical is not cool. A society like this does not value making things or understanding how things work and can only support a few kitcar makers. Add in the modern obsession with brands and even this reduced number of kits will struggle if they are not replicas of something that is a big brand.
So even a very pretty car along the lines that I described above would be chasing a handful of customers a year.
Much as I would like life to be different this post is an excellent, reasoned , assessment of the reality of such projects.. Honestly this kit has zero market potential.
The styling was never pretty and the last round of styling mods made it worse. The donors are extinct (almost).
Just look at the Ginetta G15, Cox GTM, The GP Spyder, the achingly pretty Beatie racing cars, the Sylva J15, then look at that McCoy kit and ask yourself... "why?".
There are a couple of stylists on here, Seansverge and fuoriserie, perhaps they could draw something along the lines of a G15 / Alpine A108 with space for rear mounted bike engine and (please) a removable roof panel.
Even then, and I'm genuinely sorry to tell you this, kits just don't sell like they used to. When kits were more popular people grew up thinking that you made stuff and then you maintained it. There were a lot of people about who did regular car maintenance. I actually have some old 50's magazines that describe how to make allsorts of things from hobby kilns to kitchen mixers (yes really, there was enough demand to actually publish plans for kitchen mixers to build in your shed). People were less interested in brands. Being technical was cool, the space race was happening, Concord was taking off and we were all going to holiday on space stations in the year 2000. A society like that could support a few kit car companies, it even allowed a few to grow and become TVR, Marcos and Lotus.
Today the world just isn't like that. Nearly everyone thinks that everything comes ready made, works perfectly and either you get someone else to fix it or you chuck it away. Eighty five percent of BMW customers do not know (and presumable even more don't care) that their cars are RWD. Think about all the millions of pounds of advertising behind that brand and think about that level of technical ignorance. Just last week someone walked into a custom cycle shop (I know a keen cyclist at work who knows the shop well)complaining that his 1200 plus quid bicycle was broken and demanded a replacement. It had a puncture. Being technical is not cool. A society like this does not value making things or understanding how things work and can only support a few kitcar makers. Add in the modern obsession with brands and even this reduced number of kits will struggle if they are not replicas of something that is a big brand.
So even a very pretty car along the lines that I described above would be chasing a handful of customers a year.
Excellent post. Times have changed and being very old I can remember, with great pleasure, those booming kit car markets of years ago. I wish the OP every success with hs venture. However I do agree with cymtricks that this is likely to be a very weak market. Kit cars, sadly are not the simple build they were pre IVA with all the on costs. Equally I think the interest in undertaking such lengthy projects has gone. Times change and much as I would like this not to be the case, I think it has.
and take all comments on board.DDg said:
Perfectly said Cymtricks. Nero, take it on the chin and move on. Don't think "I've spent this much, I must go on". It will cost you ££££'s and more importantly lost years to realise it was a mistake, otherwise. I've been there, albeit not with kit cars. Genuine best wishes.
Cheers Edited by DDg on Sunday 28th June 11:35
appreciate thisWhilst personally I am not a fan of the McCoy and I do tend to agree with the general feeling being exhibited with regards the car I am going to disagree with the message people are giving you with regards 'Give it up the Kit Car is dead' attitude.
If it's something you like and want to do then go ahead and do it. There's too many sheep in this country and sheep didn't make this country great. It may not be Great Britain anymore but that's no reason why people should not follow their dreams. Every time I see a kit car (or indeed any other car that's been blinged up by it's owner) which I think is a mess I remind myself that I may not like it but to the owner it's his pride and joy and long may we be allowed our own castles in this country!
So don't expect to make yourself a fortune but if you have a passion get on and do it. It's the easiest thing in the world to criticise and rubbish people's work
Illegitimi non carborundum
By the way I have always loved the Clan Clover so there could be a cracking looking car underneath that body if you have a go at it.
If it's something you like and want to do then go ahead and do it. There's too many sheep in this country and sheep didn't make this country great. It may not be Great Britain anymore but that's no reason why people should not follow their dreams. Every time I see a kit car (or indeed any other car that's been blinged up by it's owner) which I think is a mess I remind myself that I may not like it but to the owner it's his pride and joy and long may we be allowed our own castles in this country!
So don't expect to make yourself a fortune but if you have a passion get on and do it. It's the easiest thing in the world to criticise and rubbish people's work
Illegitimi non carborundum
By the way I have always loved the Clan Clover so there could be a cracking looking car underneath that body if you have a go at it.
qdos said:
Whilst personally I am not a fan of the McCoy and I do tend to agree with the general feeling being exhibited with regards the car I am going to disagree with the message people are giving you with regards 'Give it up the Kit Car is dead' attitude.
If it's something you like and want to do then go ahead and do it. There's too many sheep in this country and sheep didn't make this country great. It may not be Great Britain anymore but that's no reason why people should not follow their dreams. Every time I see a kit car (or indeed any other car that's been blinged up by it's owner) which I think is a mess I remind myself that I may not like it but to the owner it's his pride and joy and long may we be allowed our own castles in this country!
So don't expect to make yourself a fortune but if you have a passion get on and do it. It's the easiest thing in the world to criticise and rubbish people's work
Illegitimi non carborundum
By the way I have always loved the Clan Clover so there could be a cracking looking car underneath that body if you have a go at it.
Evening qdos, good to see there is still real enthusiasm about for building kit cars. Stuart Mills always says I am too negative on the future of kit cars and the right car at the right price will sell. He shoud know! We need enthusiasts who are prepared to go the extra mile and sped a fair bit of time and money in building ther dream. I wish all kit car builders well. If it's something you like and want to do then go ahead and do it. There's too many sheep in this country and sheep didn't make this country great. It may not be Great Britain anymore but that's no reason why people should not follow their dreams. Every time I see a kit car (or indeed any other car that's been blinged up by it's owner) which I think is a mess I remind myself that I may not like it but to the owner it's his pride and joy and long may we be allowed our own castles in this country!
So don't expect to make yourself a fortune but if you have a passion get on and do it. It's the easiest thing in the world to criticise and rubbish people's work
Illegitimi non carborundum
By the way I have always loved the Clan Clover so there could be a cracking looking car underneath that body if you have a go at it.
However in this case, I cannot personally see the Mcoy ever being a success. Being a retired Chartered Accountant and therefore necessarily cautious by training this is not a project I woud see as a viable business. But I have been wrong many, many times! Best oI luck to the OP.
Thankyou for taking my earlier comments as they were intended!
However it was not my intention to say that the kit car is dead, its more that the market has shrunk and kits that don't tick the right boxes will simply not make it.
I think kits can only be viable if they offer styling, handling or performance (preferably a mix of all those) that production cars won't provide.
Just looking through a car magazine today and driving past a few dealers made me think, yet again, how small, RWD, pretty cars are simply not made by the mass market anymore. Most of the faster mass made cars are almost comically huge compared to even supercars or luxury saloons that were around when I was a kid. The styling ranges from brutal to muscular to dramatic but never beautiful or pretty. Fifty years ago Chapman built on the principal of simplificate and add lightness. Try buying a fast car that's designed like that today. Performance now equals extra complication, weight, girth, mass and gadgets.
The niche that kit cars can fill is definitely there. How many customers are actually in that niche is a different question.
However it was not my intention to say that the kit car is dead, its more that the market has shrunk and kits that don't tick the right boxes will simply not make it.
I think kits can only be viable if they offer styling, handling or performance (preferably a mix of all those) that production cars won't provide.
Just looking through a car magazine today and driving past a few dealers made me think, yet again, how small, RWD, pretty cars are simply not made by the mass market anymore. Most of the faster mass made cars are almost comically huge compared to even supercars or luxury saloons that were around when I was a kid. The styling ranges from brutal to muscular to dramatic but never beautiful or pretty. Fifty years ago Chapman built on the principal of simplificate and add lightness. Try buying a fast car that's designed like that today. Performance now equals extra complication, weight, girth, mass and gadgets.
The niche that kit cars can fill is definitely there. How many customers are actually in that niche is a different question.
I have a McCoy and if you look at my build diary you can see what I am in the process of doing, it will be running a Honda 16V Vtec with beam axle and I am in the process of remodelling the front, I need to do some mods to the rear turrets to allow the rear to be lower aswell, if you want any tips just PM me...
http://www.16vminiclub.com/forums/showthread.php?t...
http://www.16vminiclub.com/forums/showthread.php?t...
Edited by pompeyal on Monday 29th June 11:07
pompeyal said:
I have a McCoy and if you look at my build diary you can see what I am in the process of doing, it will be running a Honda 16V Vtec with beam axle and I am in the process of remodelling the front, I need to do some mods to the rear turrets to allow the rear to be lower aswell, if you want any tips just PM me...
http://www.16vminiclub.com/forums/showthread.php?t...
Thanks I will have a look at that , appreciate your reply http://www.16vminiclub.com/forums/showthread.php?t...
Edited by pompeyal on Monday 29th June 11:07
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